2 Manifold bolts wont budge!

[GofaST4life]

alright guys, after finding a crack in my manifold, i decided to take it off, this is probably the first time this maniflod has been taken off, it was stock when i bought it...anyways, i got as far as the picture shows and then spent about an hour working those damn things...PB Blaster was used, i let it soak while i was doing other things and i added more during the process.

well i started to strip both the bolts and the sockets im useing...im out of ideas...anyone got a helpful hint?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

i wanna, i reall want to, but i dont yet have the supporting mods, i.e. FMIC and fuel mods

Sounds like you did your homework

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

My car has a evo III and run 12 psi, without running lean. Trust me, youll be fine.

James

 

[iceman3545]

As far as wanting to wait for the suporting mods to upgrade, its not majorly neccisary. I might be crazy, but I put a hahn 20g on my car with stock fuel and it ran great. You might wanna concider a front mount tho. just keep the boost down and you'll be fine.

 

[GofaST4life]

after this site entered my life i changed alot about what i wanted to do with car...

my head has been entirerly under the hood with this car since reading through forums and threads...

as for my mods and supporting mods, i think ive got a pretty good idea about what order im going to do things...as much as id love to get bigger turbo, right now its just not in the cards for my "plan"...yea it may sound dumb, but for some reason i want to save the best for last...

after i get a new manifold (and port it myself) im going to finish the exhaust with a ported o2 housing, and full 3inch downpipe and cat back...

then its a FMIC, some fuel upgrades, and i need a logger...then i think im going to get the turbo...

god i wish money grew on trees...

i really appreciate the help/advice guys, thankx

 

[GofaST4life]

Sounds like you did your homework

homework first, play later...

 

[meliketoball]

Hmm, funny..I always thought the bolt thats stuck onto the turbo came off. Well mine did until I snapped my head off that one..

 

[kenamond]

after this site entered my life i changed alot about what i wanted to do with car...

my head has been entirerly under the hood with this car since reading through forums and threads...

as for my mods and supporting mods, i think ive got a pretty good idea about what order im going to do things...as much as id love to get bigger turbo, right now its just not in the cards for my "plan"...yea it may sound dumb, but for some reason i want to save the best for last...

after i get a new manifold (and port it myself) im going to finish the exhaust with a ported o2 housing, and full 3inch downpipe and cat back...

then its a FMIC, some fuel upgrades, and i need a logger...then i think im going to get the turbo...

god i wish money grew on trees...

i really appreciate the help/advice guys, thankx

If you plan on doing porting work, keep in mind that you'll have performance problems if you port the mani without matching the turbine housing to it (there will be a sudden decrease in size when you go from the mani to the turbine, and this seriously disrupts exhaust flow). Same goes for the O2 housing. If you really plan on porting, I recommend practicing on your T25 turbine housing. That's what I did; get the feel of the die grinder and the technique of how much to take off where, etc. If you do it that way, you could, say, port the mani and turbine housing to a 7cm^2 gasket match and do a gasket-match port job at the turbine/O2 housing gasket.

And if your 2g mani is in good shape (no all-the-way-through cracks), port that and save the money (which doesn't grow on trees). A ported 2g mani is good for well over 400hp.

Also, you *can* upgrade the turbo before upgrading fuel and intercooler. But you can't turn up the boost (too much) yet. I'm not saying that you should get the turbo first or anything. I'm just pointing out that bigger turbos at low boost levels don't demand more intercooling or fuel. It's just that you *can* turn up the boost on them, and when you do, you need supporting mods. You can slowly increase the boost as you get various mods. Like once you get fuel upgrades and an exhaust, you can up the boost until intercooling becomes a problem. Once you get the FMIC, upgraded SMIC, or water/meth kit, then you can push it until the next limiting factor, etc. But if nothing is broken, I recommend following the staged upgrades section on this forum. Just do things in the order that suits your situation. My T25 died when I was still bone stock, so my first mods had to include a new turbo.

So for now, make sure you pull that stud out of the turbine housing and replace all 4 with new bolts (with anti-sieze on the threads!). That single turbo/mani stud makes dropping the turbo more difficult. Also, since you have the mani off, replace the mani/head studs/nuts with a new set.

 

[GofaST4life]

If you plan on doing porting work, keep in mind that you'll have performance problems if you port the mani without matching the turbine housing to it (there will be a sudden decrease in size when you go from the mani to the turbine, and this seriously disrupts exhaust flow). Same goes for the O2 housing. If you really plan on porting, I recommend practicing on your T25 turbine housing. That's what I did; get the feel of the die grinder and the technique of how much to take off where, etc. If you do it that way, you could, say, port the mani and turbine housing to a 7cm^2 gasket match and do a gasket-match port job at the turbine/O2 housing gasket.

And if your 2g mani is in good shape (no all-the-way-through cracks), port that and save the money (which doesn't grow on trees). A ported 2g mani is good for well over 400hp.

Also, you *can* upgrade the turbo before upgrading fuel and intercooler. But you can't turn up the boost (too much) yet. I'm not saying that you should get the turbo first or anything. I'm just pointing out that bigger turbos at low boost levels don't demand more intercooling or fuel. It's just that you *can* turn up the boost on them, and when you do, you need supporting mods. You can slowly increase the boost as you get various mods. Like once you get fuel upgrades and an exhaust, you can up the boost until intercooling becomes a problem. Once you get the FMIC, upgraded SMIC, or water/meth kit, then you can push it until the next limiting factor, etc. But if nothing is broken, I recommend following the staged upgrades section on this forum. Just do things in the order that suits your situation. My T25 died when I was still bone stock, so my first mods had to include a new turbo.

So for now, make sure you pull that stud out of the turbine housing and replace all 4 with new bolts (with anti-sieze on the threads!). That single turbo/mani stud makes dropping the turbo more difficult. Also, since you have the mani off, replace the mani/head studs/nuts with a new set.

had to read that twice to make sure i understtod what your saying, all that information is greatly appreciated and i didnt have that knowledge before...

looks like ill have to do some more searching on how to get the last stud out and how to change out the head studs, hopefully its not to hard...

i dont think ill be able to use my stock manifold, after taking it off i found a couple mor crack, one underneath the mani and on inside it, non of them are all the way through, but i dont want to rsik porting and using a mani that has that many weak spots, i plan on getting another 2g mani...

after reading what you worte, im going to port the turbine housing as well, also the O2 housing...well i got to get them off the car first, haha...damn rust...

thank you for the information, without it i would have run into more problems...

 

[turbosax2]

had to read that twice to make sure i understtod what your saying, all that information is greatly appreciated and i didnt have that knowledge before...

looks like ill have to do some more searching on how to get the last stud out and how to change out the head studs, hopefully its not to hard...

i dont think ill be able to use my stock manifold, after taking it off i found a couple mor crack, one underneath the mani and on inside it, non of them are all the way through, but i dont want to rsik porting and using a mani that has that many weak spots, i plan on getting another 2g mani...

after reading what you worte, im going to port the turbine housing as well, also the O2 housing...well i got to get them off the car first, haha...damn rust...

thank you for the information, without it i would have run into more problems...

For ANY stud, you can use the double nut method to take them off. Thread 1 nut on the stud and screw it down a bit, thread another nut on the stud and snug the two nuts together so they're tight. Then use a wrench to turn the bottom nut counterclockwise and the stud should start coming out. Easier said then done for rusty studs though. And if that fails, grip the stud like mad with vice grips and start turning it out. Hopefully you don't break off any studs (knocks on wood).

For the head/mani studs, you can go with OEM, ARP, FP, or ssstuds. Those are the main ones I know of.
Forced Performance: Exhaust Manifold Stud & Nut Kit
www.ssstuds.com
Modern Automotive Performance #::#DSM #::#Hardware / Gaskets / Flanges / Piping #::#Exhaust Manifold / Turbo Hardware #::#ARP Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold Stud Set (DSM / Evo)

 

[Daveed]

This was an interesting thread to read. Mainly cause I've been in that exact situation. Fortunately I only broke off a bolt head at the manifold. After pulling the exhaust back away from the head I was able to lift the manifold up and off the turbo. To remove the factory stud and the "new" stud I created I used a craftsman 1/2 drive stud remover. Worked great with some PB blaster soaking beforehand.

Also, a pipe wrench works pretty good on stud removal if you don't wanna pay for the craftsman tool.

PS Good job and if you have a chance take a look at the tech / path section of this site. It really lays out a step by step way to get the power you want.

 

[turboglenn]

Try heat from a MAP gas torch on the nuts. But first i need to ask. Are you talking about manifold to head bolts (some are removed) or the turbo to manifold bolts? (also 2 are removed). If the one's don't come out ofthe head, cut them or what ever you have to do to get the mani off, then grab them with vise grips and give em hell. if that don't work or they pull the aluminum out with the stud, put helicoils in ALL of the holes, I heli-coil all aluminum bolot holes, especially on heads and things that get really hot.

 

[GofaST4life]

alrite so as soon as my next check goes through ill be ordering all these studs (damn DD alternator)...

So heres the plan, take out the last turbo to mani stud, remove the head to mani studs and replace all before installing new manifold, etc...

anything else i should think about doing?

thankx again guys

 

[GofaST4life]

Try heat from a MAP gas torch on the nuts. But first i need to ask. Are you talking about manifold to head bolts (some are removed) or the turbo to manifold bolts? (also 2 are removed). If the one's don't come out ofthe head, cut them or what ever you have to do to get the mani off, then grab them with vise grips and give em hell. if that don't work or they pull the aluminum out with the stud, put helicoils in ALL of the holes, I heli-coil all aluminum bolot holes, especially on heads and things that get really hot.

noted

 

[turboglenn]

noted

Trust me, you will not regret doing it. IMO heli-coils (the actual name brand "heli-coil") are gods gift to people that are forced to work on aluminum parts frequently and with a tad of anti-sieze on the stud after the heli-coils you should never have a problem with them again! Let us know how she turns out!!

Also, to the best of my memory the holes in the head for the mani studs are M8 x 1.25 thread, but take a stud with you to double check, i know in one year they changed the 2 end studs, but i can't remember if the threads into the head were changed or just the O.D. of the protruding part of the stud.

 

[GofaST4life]

Trust me, you will not regret doing it. IMO heli-coils (the actual name brand "heli-coil") are gods gift to people that are forced to work on aluminum parts frequently and with a tad of anti-sieze on the stud after the heli-coils you should never have a problem with them again! Let us know how she turns out!!

Also, to the best of my memory the holes in the head for the mani studs are M8 x 1.25 thread, but take a stud with you to double check, i know in one year they changed the 2 end studs, but i can't remember if the threads into the head were changed or just the O.D. of the protruding part of the stud.

thank you, and for the bolded, i notice when i was taking off the mani that the two end bolt were indeed bigger (14mm) than the other ones (12mm), i will remember that when shopping for the new bolts...

 

[turbosax2]

2g heads and late 1g heads have 7 M8 studs and 2 M10 studs.

 

[Kyromoto]

I had the same problem on mine.... but my car wasnt startable and i didnt have a torch. so i ended up pulling so hard i broke 2 bolts... now i gotta drill them out... it sucks

 

[kenamond]

There is a exhaust tech article for removing the exhaust mani. head studs. You can buy the stud set from a number of DSM vendors; just get the 2g set.

To get the stud out of the turbine housing, I just used vice grips on the shank of the stud. It's no longer torqued down, so it should be easier to get out, and you can easily get PB Blaster down into the threads in the turbine housing now.

You might want to buy the turbo bolts, head/mani studs/nuts, exhaust mani gasket, turbo/mani gasket (get the correct size for whatever porting you plan on doing...7cm^2?), turbine/O2 gasket, and O2/DP gasket. If you can get a good deal on all of them from one vendor, that'll save on shipping costs. I think I got all of that stuff from extremepsi.com.

If you plan on porting yourself, do a search on porting threads I've posted to. There are several, and I talk a whole lot about it. I also hyperlink to other porting threads written by others. There's also a porting thread in the tech article section, but its title is something like "How to cure boost creep". I don't have a compressor, so I got an electric die grinder from Harbor Freight for under $50. The burrs (grinding bits) cost around $20 online, and you'll need 2 or 3 to do the mani, turbine housing, and O2 housing. It'd help to have a dremel tool as well as some "flapper wheel" bits for doing the final smoothing/contouring.

My mani had two cracks in it, but they didn't go all the way through. I ported it, and haven't had any additional cracking problems. YMMV.

 

[kmoore]

I bought my carbide burr from Napa. Little pricey though at about $40... but it was local.

 

[GofaST4life]

There is a exhaust tech article for removing the exhaust mani. head studs. You can buy the stud set from a number of DSM vendors; just get the 2g set.

To get the stud out of the turbine housing, I just used vice grips on the shank of the stud. It's no longer torqued down, so it should be easier to get out, and you can easily get PB Blaster down into the threads in the turbine housing now.

You might want to buy the turbo bolts, head/mani studs/nuts, exhaust mani gasket, turbo/mani gasket (get the correct size for whatever porting you plan on doing...7cm^2?), turbine/O2 gasket, and O2/DP gasket. If you can get a good deal on all of them from one vendor, that'll save on shipping costs. I think I got all of that stuff from extremepsi.com.

If you plan on porting yourself, do a search on porting threads I've posted to. There are several, and I talk a whole lot about it. I also hyperlink to other porting threads written by others. There's also a porting thread in the tech article section, but its title is something like "How to cure boost creep". I don't have a compressor, so I got an electric die grinder from Harbor Freight for under $50. The burrs (grinding bits) cost around $20 online, and you'll need 2 or 3 to do the mani, turbine housing, and O2 housing. It'd help to have a dremel tool as well as some "flapper wheel" bits for doing the final smoothing/contouring.

My mani had two cracks in it, but they didn't go all the way through. I ported it, and haven't had any additional cracking problems. YMMV.

kenamond, i have seen some of those porting threads and book marked them for when i will be needing them...they gave me a lot of information thats greatly needed...

How was the electrical die grinder? i had an air powered one but never got to use it before it got lost in a house move.

ok this may sound stupid but what exactly does 7cm^2 mean, i get the 7cm part (diameter?), im not sure what ^2 is referring too when measuring.

I know that after porting the gasket size will change, and i think thats the only part im stuck on, how would i know what size to buy, or do vendors sell "gaskets for ported parts"...

 

[absolute_DSM]

ok this may sound stupid but what exactly does 7cm^2 mean, i get the 7cm part (diameter?), im not sure what ^2 is referring too when measuring.

7cm would refer to a distance. 7cm^2 = seven cm squared, which is an area.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

To get the stud out of the turbine housing, I just used vice grips on the shank of the stud. It's no longer torqued down, so it should be easier to get out, and you can easily get PB Blaster down into the threads in the turbine housing now.

Or double nutting helps too

YMMV.

I'm being a n00b. What does YMMV mean? your mom makes veal?

I bought my carbide burr from Napa. Little pricey though at about $40... but it was local.

Sears in the air tools department sells 1/4" shank carbide bits too

 

[kenamond]

Double-nutting works if you have two nuts. I got mine out using vice grips on the shank (or maybe the threads) of the turbo/mani stud. But I had no problems getting any of the bolts or nut out (no rust). But one of my turbo/mani bolts was already broken...and I was able to take the rest of that one out with my fingers!

YMMV=your mileage may vary

The 7cm^2 refers to some area in the turbine housing...I read it once, but I can't remember the details. If you buy a 7cm^2 gasket, you can use it as a template for the port work on both the exhaust mani and turbine housing. Get a scribe, plop the gasket on the part you're porting, line up the bolt holes, vice-grip or clamp the gasket to the part, then scribe the circle on the part as deep and clear as you can get it. Then you just port up to the scribe line. Same goes for the O2/turbo gasket. So get the gaskets before you port. That's what they call "gasket matching".

If you have a large air compressor, I'd get a pneumatic die grinder; they're only $20 at any hardware store. If you don't have an air compressor, then the electric die grinder will do the trick. The Harbor Freight die grinder I got worked fine and dandy. The only reason to get the electric one is that you lack an air compressor (that's big enough).

Burrs are usually much cheaper online. $20 is a good price. If you get any burrs at a local store, make sure they're tungsten carbide, or they won't do the job. Find one of my porting threads on this forum: I go into the diameter, burr shape, cut, technique, etc. But a ball-end, cylindrical 1/2" diameter, 1" long, double-cut (or diamond cut), tungsten carbide burr is what you want. The shank diameter (where it connects to the grinder) is usually 1/4". Again, I cover all of this and give pictures in other porting threads. Do a google search on "carbide burr" and you'll find them. The grinding goes kind of slow, so you don't have to worry too much about taking too much off in one pass and totalling your housing.

 

[Daveed]

On the subject of burrs...don't forget to make sure it is for aluminum. The steel ones tend to be fine fluted and gum up quickly when used on aluminum. A coarse fluted one will work much better on Al.

 

[klipschaudio]

If you still haven't got them off yet use vinegar, better then anything out there, ussually gets through within 15 minutes and turns the rust into paste to ease any bolt off. A trick my dad taught me that he learned from another mechanic in Russia. Good luck.