wont start after changing heater hoses...

[ujawa]

ok. whole story made short. blew out old heater hose. replaced with new hose and refilled system. did not overheat severely before being shut down. put back together and was very hard to start at first. got it running, let it warm up to check for leaks. found none and shut it off. next day, car wont start. had no spark. checked a few things on here, tested the crank pos sensor. tested bad. replaced. still wont start. now i am getting cel code 42. beating my head against a wall at the moment. need my car running as it is my dd. any suggestions or directions to look would be most appreciated.

also, car is bone stock. zero mods. 2.0 non turbo 420a 5spd. sorry, forgot to add that.

 

[luv2rallye]

Start by making sure the "Engine" fuse is not blown. If not, since you're getting CEL 42 it's most likely the ASD relay. With key ON, make sure you have +12v on the ASD relay's output (large black-red wire on pin 2) or measure it at the coil's large black-red wire (on it's pin 2). Also +12v should be at ASD's large red-black (pin 8) and at it's black-white (pin 6). And the ECU should be pulling the ASD's red-white (pin 4) near zero to activate it. If you have all this except the ASD output pin is not at +12v, your relay is bad.

 

[ujawa]

ok. update. no longer getting any codes. i swapped the fuel pump relay with the asd relay, and the code is gone. rented a scanner just to be sure. zero codes. fuel pump still primes and i still have pressure at the shrader valve. i checked for spark on both sets of coils (1,4-2,3) and have no spark. the connector going into the coil, center wire, black-red, reads +10.0 with multimeter set to battery dc 12v. fluctuates slightly if the door is open. is this the problem??? that its not getting enough voltage to fire??? also, both other wires on the connector at the ignition coil are dead, even while cranking. it was my understanding that these two wires are the "switch" for the ignition coil. ie. switching between coil for 1,4 and 2,3. is this correct??? and simplest thing to check, going to double check all my fuses right now. originally checked those, but never know right... thanks for the suggestions luv2rallye. they are much appreciated. also going to check the other pins on the actual relay right now. be back shortly.

alright, here are the readings from the relay. black/red pin 2 10.22v, red/black pin 8 11.98v, black/white pin 6 11.99v, red/white pin 4 5.22v. when touching the lead to pin 4 the relay clicks. all fuses are good. seems like from your description the relay itself is good, just not being activated. what could be behind this???

also this is with the key in the on position. dont have anyone to bump the starter for about another hr...

 

[luv2rallye]

here are the readings from the relay. black/red pin 2 10.22v, red/black pin 8 11.98v, black/white pin 6 11.99v, red/white pin 4 5.22v. when touching the lead to pin 4 the relay clicks.

The red/white pin 4 voltage is the problem. The ECU (called PCM on a NT) is not pulling it down to near zero to activate the ASD relay fully. Open up the ECU and check for visual problems like leaking capacitors, burnt components, broken traces, etc. Try swapping it with another ECU (PCM) is possible. As a test you could try grounding the ASD red/white pin 4 just to see if it will run properly. If so, replace or have fixed the ECU (PCM). You can't leave pin 4 grounded long when not running however as it will drain your battery.

 

[ujawa]

i tried grounding it out to the battery terminal with a jumper wire. still didnt get it started. did however realize that the reading i was getting from the black/red was in mv. not v. when i grounded out pin four however, it spiked to just over 12 v. i think it held steady at about 12.04 v. anyway, thanks again. ill check it out in the early am and hove something posted back before this time tomorrow. for, i need sleep. two days without sleep just aint easy like it used to be...

ok. pulled pcm and opened it up.... can see nothing. it is filled with a red jellatinous substance (assuming some type of heavy duty heat dispersement stuff). so no idea if its good or bad. next. (before pcm removal of course) i grounded out pin 4 at the asd relay strainght to the battery via a jumper wire. still no spark. reinstalling the pcm for now. please get back to me asap. really need to get my car running again and im on a tight budget to do it...

just did a resistance test on the ignition coil. passed. 12.something on the secondary 2,3 coil, measured at posts, 13.something on secondary 1,4 measured at posts, .8-1.3 fluctuating primary coil 2,3 measured at pins 1 and 2, .9 steady primary 1,4 measured at pins 3 and 2. two was positive on both primary coil tests. i am getting zero spark while power from black/red pin 2. also, i get a 12v reading temporarily on the black/red pin 2 without the asd relay being jumped. the relay clicks closed, and about a second later, pops open again. did that description make sense??? i hope so. if not, just ask and ill go into further detail as needed.

 

[ujawa]

and another update... changed both relays, even though believed they were both good(asd & fuel pump) changed ignition coil, after it tested good, with a new one. changed pcm out with one from a running vehicle. the crank position sensor is new. the cam position sensor is new. i have power running into the ignition coil when asd relay is jumped. still getting no spark. please, i have no more ideas and dont know where to look now.

 

[luv2rallye]

1) Try unplugging the one lead noise capacitor (tin can) on the intake manifold to see effect (in case it's bad).

2) I hope your 12.x and 13.x readings of the coil secondaries were in k ohms.

3) What was this ".8-1.3 fluctuating primary coil 2,3 measured at pins 1 and 2" all about? it should be constant (except perhaps a brief noise capacitor charge up but then should settle down).

4) Please elaborate on the "i get a 12v reading temporarily on the black/red pin 2 without the asd relay being jumped. the relay clicks closed, and about a second later, pops open again.".

5) Ok let's try forcing the spark just to make sure that part of it works. [I assume you have a spark plug out and casing grounded with spark cable attached to see if there's spark - (or the long screwdriver in the spark cable end with shank 1/8" from head trick).] Unplug the coil primary connector (leave secondaries connected). Connect a wire from battery positive to the middle pin 2. Connect another wire onto pin 1 and momentarily touch it to ground. When releasing from ground plugs 2,3 should fire. Now move the wire from pin 1 to pin 3 and momentarily touch it to ground. When releasing from ground plugs 1,4 should fire.

 

[ujawa]

Yes the secondary coil readings were in k ohms. Sorry, forgot that. Ok pin two temporary 12 v reading... When ignition comes on, the relay clicks, I have 12 v long enough for it to register on my multimeter, then back down to the 10.something mv. I will check the coil the way you described when I get home in the early am. Can I use a test light in the plug wire grounded at the battery to check for spark. Don't have an actual spark tester ... Thanks much for the help.

Also, the fluctuation on the first reading for the primary coil was a fluke. I checked it again a short while after and it held steady at .8 v. Sorry, forgot to post that. I know they shouldn't fluctuate at all.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok pin two temporary 12 v reading... When ignition comes on, the relay clicks, I have 12 v long enough for it to register on my multimeter, then back down to the 10.something mv.

If it doesn't stay at 12v the ECU (PCM) is no longer holding the ASD relay pin 4 (red/white wire) at zero volts so the ASD relay turns off. The ECU doesn't like something so it's shutting down the ignition (or the ECU is bad but you said you swapped it out so that's probably not it). Don't know what it doesn't like. Check to make sure you always have +12v on ECU pin 46 (in case the wire is no longer making connection since that would do it.

I will check the coil the way you described when I get home in the early am. Can I use a test light in the plug wire grounded at the battery to check for spark. Don't have an actual spark tester

You mean in the spark plug cable? No that's 40,000v.

 

[ujawa]

Thank you much. Is their a pcm pin out diagram in the Haynes manual??? I just bought one on my way to work. Haven't had a chance to look yet. If not ill find one on here when I get off work. I'm now leaning towards a wiring issue somewhere. Read on here that its very common for the cam sensor wiring to melt because its so close to the egr pipe. Start looking when I get home. Thanks agai. Will update when I start looking.

 

[luv2rallye]

NT PCM pinout: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/283950-2gnt-pcm-connector-views.html

 

[ujawa]

ok, so i forced a spark out of all four points. i have 12 v constant at pcm pin 46. i carefully inspected each wire along the egr pipe by checking resistance from one end to another. yes, it was EXTREMELY time consuming... but i found nothing that would indicate a damaged wire. im at a complete loss with this issue...

ok. here is what ive found... the power wire to both the CrPS and the Cmps, pin 44 on the pcm, is only putting out 60 mv. diagram says its supposed to be putting out "8v+." believe this is my problem... also, from pin 33, bl/r, the signal wire from the CmPS, has a "00.0" ohms reading from sensor connector, to pin 33 on the pcm connector. how is that possible??? not real knowledgeable when it come to electrical readings, especially resistance, but shouldnt there be a reading of some kind between the two ends of a single wire???

 

[luv2rallye]

the power wire to both the CrPS and the Cmps, pin 44 on the pcm, is only putting out 60 mv. diagram says its supposed to be putting out "8v+."

Yes that sounds like your problem unless the PCM isn't powering up properly: With key on but engine not running, check pins 25, 33, 32, 66, 61 to be 5v. Check these pins to have 0.0 ohms resistance to chassis ground (or battery negative): 43, 47, 50, 10.

Does your swapped out PCM have same reading on pin 44? If so, I hope you didn't just blow out that PCM. Or perhaps the wire on pin 44 is shorting to ground somewhere (maybe in the CrPS, CmPS, or VSS).

shouldnt there be a reading of some kind between the two ends of a single wire???

No you should always have 0.0 ohms between the two ends of a single wire (or at least < 0.01 ohms).