Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[HighPsi91]

Most people that set out to build a high 11 sec DSM end up with a high 11 sec DSM. Most people that set out to build a 10sec DSM end up with a high 11sec DSM if theyre lucky. Thats just what I have noticed. The path to 10's is not an easy one. Daily driven will not be in your vocabulary at that point either.

 

[FFgeoff]

obviously youre drag racing with that car, you will see a diffeernce. The 60-1 blows a whole lotta air. Also imo those companies puishing the 60-1 wheels inside a tiny compressor, are being retarded. the t04s housing is designed for the 60-1 wheel. Those other housings are simply too small and choke the wheel, as well as move the surge line closer to the efficiency islands...

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by HighPsi91
Most people that set out to build a high 11 sec DSM end up with a high 11 sec DSM. Most people that set out to build a 10sec DSM end up with a high 11sec DSM if theyre lucky. Thats just what I have noticed. The path to 10's is not an easy one. Daily driven will not be in your vocabulary at that point either.

I know what you mean. It seems that some people have a really easy time getting to high 11s with simple mods and a 16G and then three turbo swaps and two injector swaps later (plus other crazy mods) that person may still be tryng to break into the 10s. It's crazy.

 

[mclaren55]

*UPDATE*

The G Pumper has now put out 498.7WHP without nitrous. It also achieved [email protected]. This was on 30#'s and C16. Car hasn't broken yet. Look for more soon =).

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by mclaren55
*UPDATE*

The G Pumper has now put out 498.7WHP without nitrous. It also achieved [email protected]. This was on 30#'s and C16. Car hasn't broken yet. Look for more soon =).

122mph is moving

 

[FFgeoff]

Originally posted by DSMotorsport
Well, Iv been pretty consistent @ 125mph and 11.1-11.0 with a 50 trim T3T4 with Stage 3 turbine/.63 housing

does anyone else realize how small that 50 trim is? Yeah the g-pumper did 122, but htat midget 50 trim did 125! FYI a 50 trim is the tiny turbo that comes with a cheesy drag turbo kit. Its the smaller of the t3/t04e family.

garret turbos =

 

[mclaren55]

122mph isn't full force yet. The car is extremely rich, 10.6 a/f in boost. She has a 130 in her without nitrous. But this is getting off topic, I am pretty sure all these posts will be edited out. 125mph out of a 50 trim is impressive, good job. How much does that car weigh? Mine is 3250, full weight, ac, pw, pl, alarm, ps, abs, full interior, etc. So I was pleased.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Anyone know of a 50trim in the 130s?

 

[NosLaser]

...A t3 stage 3 wheel combined with a 60-1 compressor side is the best combination for our cars from my expereince....

The 60-1 is a pretty old school design, and is actually a very nice turbo. HOWEVER, I do not recommend it for a street car, and I'll tell you why. This will sound weird to some of you, but to those that truly know turbos, it will make a lot of sense. It is too big to be a street turbo, and not quite big enough to be a race turbo. That wheel moves a LOT of air, but also heats the air up very quickly. In a street car, when you are worried about inlet temps, it gets very difficult to tune on pump gas, and can be very finicky. The spoolup is also not nearly as nice as some other turbos out there on the market. Let's compare a 60 trim (which is my personal absolute FAVORITE for a 4 cylinder street turbo) to the 60-1. The 60-1 on race gas will no doubt make more power than the 60 trim. However, on two properly tuned cars, pump gas for pump gas, the 60 trim will leave the 60-1 car choking in the dust. It is a MUCH more efficient pump gas wheel. I recommend to anyone who is going to use the car as a daily driver, or even who drives the car 2 weeks out of the month not to get a 60-1. I don't think you'd be nearly as happy with it. You have to run low boost on pump gas, always have to worry about detonation, but put race gas in, crank the boost, and it's a whole new car. The 50 trim is also a very nice choice for a street car, but for the ultimate in street performance, I definately say go with the 60 trim.

Regards,

 

[IPT]

Aslan have you got that 60 Trim installed in your car yet?? Lets see what it can do..

 

[BatmanGSX]

When looking at Garrets or other compressor wheels with readily available compressor maps I like to see where the center efficiency island reaches on the pressure ratio axis and also note how many lb/min it produces at that point. I usually like it if the center island is above 2.4 and flowing at least 35lbs at that point.

50 trim = yes
60 trim = yes (at that point it is nearly identical to a 50 trim)
60-1 = no (airflow is there, efficiency is not)
64 trim = no (close, efficiency is almost there but tons of airflow)
66 trim = fu@k yes (the problem is getting it to spool)

 

[FFgeoff]

WOW!! great points guys!!

well its wonderful to see people looking at the compressor maps and having good discussions, this is far too rare anymore.

My opinion on the subject. Look at the 60-1 compressor map, and it looks like crap, no doubt. Try one out. I was the most skeptical person when i put a 60-1 on my car. After running it, i was ecstatic. I run it on a full time street car and use 93 octane. I havent had any problems with it and i consistently can spin thru 3rd into 4th up until about 75 mph. Not that spinning tires gives me appropriate bragging rights, but the car is alive and well on the street, at 15 psi on a stock honda block (read: weak) with rods and pistons. I have an MSD knock meter and it is always silent, the car is tuned on a standalone however, with conservative timing maps (timing never dips below 21 degrees total). On the datalogger at 15 psi, the motor never sees more than 118 degrees (fahrenheit). That might seem high as a t04e is usually 95-110 but its really not that bad. Ill take a screen shot of the datalogger some time

I used to have a 60 trim t3t04e with a stage 5 exh wheel and since going to the 60-1 to4b style (i know its antiquated) i am much happier. It makes more power at the same boost level, and the engine has no complaints.

The best imo is to try out the new gt30/gt35 turbos. They are still in the ts04 housings but use entirely new updated versions of the 60-1 and 62-1 wheels with new aerodynamics. If anyone gets a chance to see these turbos, they are really the hottest turbos around. ALso they use true ball bearing center sections, no cheesy thrust bearings.

keep this discussion goin, its a good one!!

 

[FFgeoff]

one more thing... take a look at a t61 compressor map. That is one badass turbo!!!

i saw the GT maps and they were equally impressive, but then the site that hosted them was taken down and i didnt save them =*( anyone got them layin around??

 

[BatmanGSX]

Yeah, the 60-1 just works. I can't explain why.

 

[supereclipse]

Whats the main differences in a stage III exhaust wheel and a stageV?

 

[NosLaser]

FFgeof,

You are definately one of the people who can actually tune a car, so you've probably had some pretty good luck with the 60-1. The only thing I can say is think about how much power you are giving up by running on 15 pounds of boost on a turbo that large. You go any higher, and you'll be heating up the air too much for the turbo to be efficient on pump gas (efficient in this case meaning not heating up the air so much as to cause detonation.) I'll guarentee you that with race gas, and the wick cracked, it's a WHOLE other car. With a 60 trim, you can run upwards of 25 pounds of boost on pump gas, and still get the kind of timing advance as you are at 15 psi (if not more) and be right in the sweet spot of the turbo (remember, the 60 trim is doesn't run out of efficiency until well after 30 pounds of boost.) The point being is a properly tuned 60 trim car vs. a properly tuned 60-1, the 60 trim is gonna wipe it up on the street, but on the track with race gas, the 60-1 simply flows that much more air, and will ultimately make more power. But, it makes more power at the expense of being a substantially amount laggier than the 60 trim, and the expense of not really being a nice pump gas turbo.

Regards,

***Edit: I also agree very much with Batman and his findings. A T-66 is just about my favorite turbo. Ever. Takes a while to spool on a 4 cylinder, but you want to talk about moving air and efficiency??? Whoa buddy!!!

 

[mclaren55]

With my experience with the 60-1, I can't think of anything bad to say about it. I mean, on 94octane we were able to make 407WHP at 21#'s and it never detonated, etc. I had full boost at 4k, which is alright. It is an excellent wheel and I would run it any day of the week. I have my GT3540 sitting in my room right now attached to the Turbonetics manifold because I am so pleased with my 60-1/TD06H combo. Anyways, unless you want a lot of power and a 10/11 second goal in mind, get something smaller.

 

[level10a/t93tsi]

i have a 93 AWD with A/T and i dont know witch turbo to get. im going to use a 125 shot of nos also with my setup, here are the turbos im thinking of geting

ETE42 with a

TO4E compressor housing
60-trim (50lb/min) compressor wheel
Garrett center cartridge
T3 Hi Flow turbine wheel
7cm2turbine housing.
Adjustable, enlarged internal wastegate

FP Green or Red

L2R

*-supports 550bhp
*-54lb/min compressor
*-latest 10 bladed GT30 turbine wheel
*-your choice T04B or T04E compressor housing
*-ported 7cm turbine housing
*-optional 34mm adjustable internal waste gate

L3R

*-supports 630bhp
*-62lb/min compressor (sometimes rated 65lb/min)
*-largest 10 bladed GT30 turbine wheel
*-T04E compressor housing
*-ported 7cm turbine housing

now keep in mind this will be a daily driver
let me know what you think

i will be heavily modafing my motor befor geting the turbo.
im going to get my head and block built for 650+ hp along with any other mod that will be needed for my goal for a lo 11 to mid 10s daily driver
if you read this please reply im open to any answer

 

[larryd]

i hope you intend on having alot of work done before you go to any of these turbos..

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

low 11's and daily driver don't mix to well. If you are using nitrous also a L2R may do it. You might have to step up to the L3R. Call AGP turbo and ask them they will tell you straight up which one you will need.

Later,

 

[BatmanGSX]

mclarren55, who did you get your GT3540 from? Marco?

 

[Z1500]

With a 125 shot, I think any of those turbos would run low 11's. Assuming good tuning/driving. If you want the car to remain super streetable, the L2R spools up real quick. Good luck.


Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[NDgsx]

Forget about the turbo and start worrying about the tranny. I'm not an AT expert so I don't know what would need to be done to handle that much power. You better make sure the tranny is ready for it though.

 

[niterydr]

how much laggier would the T04E 60 trim, .63 A/R stage 5 wheel, be versus the stage 3 wheel...
this would be run on a stock motor (low boost) for now, until the hks 272's are installed along with the eagle rods/evo pistons are put in
(its a 1g big rod, actually a 1991 galant vr4, friends car,)
or the T04E 60 trim .82 A/R stage 3?
anyone use these before
my friend just wants a great trap, and a good time without having to launch so violently that he'll constantly break drivetrain parts.
(i got a 1.818 60' out of it yesterday, kumo tires, stock suspension, act 2100, 6 puck).
right now he has 300+whp on the mutt 1 but wants more!
any suggestions?

 

[niterydr]

Originally posted by NDgsx
Forget about the turbo and start worrying about the tranny. I'm not an AT expert so I don't know what would need to be done to handle that much power. You better make sure the tranny is ready for it though.

my thoughts exactly!!