Which Turbo Should I Get [merged] What Turbo

[Ludachris]

Which turbo will be sufficient for consistent 11 second times? I've recently decided on a big 16g, but will that be big enough to run 11s with supporting mods and decent tuning? Remember, this is for a budget street car, so any one purchase over $1k is tough. A big 16g will run about $700-900, which is about $300-400 less than the larger alternatives.

Of course, I'll need lots of practice to run these times, but, I just want to make sure that it's possible before the money is spent.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by niterydr
my friend just wants a great trap, and a good time without having to launch so violently that he'll constantly break drivetrain parts.

T66 + 150hp shot of nitrous

Based on compressor maps I see no advantage of a 60trim over the 50. The 50 is much more efficient at higher boost levels and is flowing close to the same amount of air. A 50trim is rated at 49lb/min while the 60 is 50lb/min. Picking up 1lb/min up top and maybe 5lb at lower boost levels doesn't seem worth it over the loss of efficiency. If your friend has to have a T3 I'd say go with the 60-1. Of course based on the 60-1 map it's the shittiest turbo on the planet. Yet it still works. Haven't heard of many people running a 60trim but you hear about lots of people doing well with either a 50trim or 60-1.

 

[91_talon_at]

i gotta a/t also....if i were you i'd worry bout the turbo last...thas what i'm doin... either getta bigger torque converter and shift kit or tranny swap that mutHa #@%#@%#@%#@%a....thas what imma do....tranny swap after i get the other things i need....

 

[97GSTAT]

Jesus!! He's got a full built tranny already. If I had the money I would have gone with the LR2. With a reworked TC that would help alot for daily driving, since it's a dual ball bearing turbo.

 

[candela]

I saw a gst with slicks, and an 80 wet shot. He said the car was otherwise stock (boost @14psi) and it sure looked it. He was netting low 12's with that setup. I really dont know how that is possible, but it looked stock and he sweared he had a 80 shot. Anyway, point being, if you know how to tune with nitrous, any of those turbos could get you into 11's easily with a 125 shot...

 

[level10a/t93tsi]

i alread have my tranny built for 750hp & 650tq by level10 my TC stalls at 38oo to 4200rpms i got my Valve Body Recalibrations and a sift kit to handel all the HP plus i might just build the motor then buy a 5spd and drop the motor in later
if you have any questions just E-mail me or IM me at aol my SN is kmp20

 

[RetardedAWD]

Originally posted by FFgeoff
WOW!! great points guys!!

well its wonderful to see people looking at the compressor maps and having good discussions, this is far too rare anymore.

My opinion on the subject. Look at the 60-1 compressor map, and it looks like crap, no doubt. Try one out. I was the most skeptical person when i put a 60-1 on my car. After running it, i was ecstatic. I run it on a full time street car and use 93 octane. I havent had any problems with it and i consistently can spin thru 3rd into 4th up until about 75 mph. Not that spinning tires gives me appropriate bragging rights, but the car is alive and well on the street, at 15 psi on a stock honda block (read: weak) with rods and pistons. I have an MSD knock meter and it is always silent, the car is tuned on a standalone however, with conservative timing maps (timing never dips below 21 degrees total). On the datalogger at 15 psi, the motor never sees more than 118 degrees (fahrenheit). That might seem high as a t04e is usually 95-110 but its really not that bad. Ill take a screen shot of the datalogger some time

I used to have a 60 trim t3t04e with a stage 5 exh wheel and since going to the 60-1 to4b style (i know its antiquated) i am much happier. It makes more power at the same boost level, and the engine has no complaints.

The best imo is to try out the new gt30/gt35 turbos. They are still in the ts04 housings but use entirely new updated versions of the 60-1 and 62-1 wheels with new aerodynamics. If anyone gets a chance to see these turbos, they are really the hottest turbos around. ALso they use true ball bearing center sections, no cheesy thrust bearings.

keep this discussion goin, its a good one!!

Geoff,
Seeing you here on the DSM board I thought you may have gone DSM.. =)
There is a good collection of turbocharged knowledge here
Not only is it good for DSM's but all the same principals apply to Honda just the same =)
It sounds like your car is still running hard.. did you ever resleeve or are you running stock still?..
Im still saving for my GE special.. my Honda is too expensive!
eheh Thats the nice thing about DSMs more hp/per dollar...

 

[Z1500]

Didn't you guys notice his name is level10a?

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by level10a/t93tsi
i alread have my tranny built for 750hp & 650tq by level10 my TC stalls at 38oo to 4200rpms i got my Valve Body Recalibrations and a sift kit to handel all the HP plus i might just build the motor then buy a 5spd and drop the motor in later
if you have any questions just E-mail me or IM me at aol my SN is kmp20

Excuse me? Exactly how did you built up a DSM tranny to hold 750hp? I am sure the big names in drag racing would love to know that. Valve Body Recalibrations? I am >< this close from calling out the BS flag.

No offense but people coming out of the blue and making wild a$$ claims is a major pet peeve of mine.

On Topic:

Listen to Kevin (Z1500). He knows what he is talking about.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Tev, auto trannys, typically, are way stronger than manuals (except the Supra auto). I assume the DSM trannys are no different. They just aren't fun. Of course sweeping your transmission of a track isn't loads of fun either.

 

[97GSTAT]

Originally posted by Tevenor


Excuse me? Exactly how did you built up a DSM tranny to hold 750hp? I am sure the big names in drag racing would love to know that. Valve Body Recalibrations? I am >< this close from calling out the BS flag.

No offense but people coming out of the blue and making wild a$$ claims is a major pet peeve of mine.

On Topic:

Listen to Kevin (Z1500). He knows what he is talking about.

Um everything he said is true. Yes a Level 10 built tranny can hold up to those figures. The fastest A/T DSM has one and he's running low 10's, should be 9's by the end of the race season. Why are people always ignorant, and don't think these automatic trannies can hold power. They actually hold power better then the M/T DSM tranny. You don't believe him, call Level 10 yourself and talk to them. Here's their number 973-827-1000. Hell my tranny in it's state can hold 500HP, and it's not near as involved as his tranny. But I guess your going to call me BS too.

 

[Tevenor]

I know Auto's typically are stronger than 5-speeds (hence my ">< this close to calling BS comment") but 750hp on ANY DSM tranny is substantial. Actually let me rephrase that. 650 ft-lbs of torque is a sh!tload on any DSM tranny. The key there being 'DSM Tranny'. I would be interested in how much of that tranny is stock off the shelf sh!t and how much is specially made.

If he has built any 'DSM tranny' that can hold 750 hp, 650 ft-lbs on regular passes with out snapping #@%#@%#@%#@%, more power too him (a la John Shepard). But as in engine comparisons, once you start doing custom build ups, all bets are off. Are we talking about this tranny? http://www.levelten.com/store/import/items/trans/JA103_3000_misu_chry_import_trans.htm

Oh and get of your high horse already, Chris. Jesus. I wasn't pissing in your cereal. I was questioning a random claim of someone who just posted. Sorry I didn't accept it for face value, but I would rather see some numbers to back it up. Where is this 10 second cars specs? Where are the numbers? HP? Torque? Etc etc etc.

I will always be skeptical. Show me the proof and I will STFU.

 

[BatmanGSX]

And autos will still always suck no matter what you do.

 

[97GSTAT]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/cgi-bin/gallery/index.pl?cat=500&user=1957&thumb=1

Here's a link to the 10 second car I was talking about. The last time I heard he was running a Red or Green, with a decent shot of nitrous. He's blow two engines, but has yet to blow his tranny. And Vinny Sineet(sp?) has the twin 4G63 1G AWD. He has two level 10 built trannies behind those engines. I'm shooting for 350HP right now in this current car. Then I'm building a full race AWD A/T DSM, all going for around 600-700HP from that. The reason why the big boys don't use these trannies is because there is finally some R&D with it. People are starting to see that these trannies can do some pretty awesome stuff. Oh and the fastest A/T dsm list is growing each week. I'm shooting for 12's by the end of the month.

I'm not on any high horse. I respect anyone who respects my car. I'm just tired of having defned A/T powered cars, or trannies. Because most people don't understand or don't have knowledge of what these A/T trannies can do. It gets old hearing, "It'll never be as fast as a 5-speed".

 

[HighPsi91]

All the successful fast AT dsms are using nitrous to make it happen. They have come a long way with the auto trannys for our cars. The downside is you will always need to make alot of power to compensate for all the losses acrued in an auto. As far as the original posters turbo choices... any of them should get you in the 11's with the aid of the bottle. Although I would be inclined to suggest staying away from the L3R if you want useable boost out on the road. The L3R has the potential to support alot of power but you WILL need the nitrous.

Once they get AT dsm trannies reliable enough it will be the hot ticket for a drag car. I think currently however they are still less reliable than the 5-speeds, especially once you are in the low11 and 10sec zone.

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by 97GSTAT

I'm not on any high horse. I respect anyone who respects my car. I'm just tired of having defned A/T powered cars, or trannies. Because most people don't understand or don't have knowledge of what these A/T trannies can do. It gets old hearing, "It'll never be as fast as a 5-speed".

I got no qualms with autos. The benefit of not having to lift to shift is a big advantage, but lets not get into a pro vs cons of auto vs manual tranny discussion.

Once Russ gets to 750 hp we can see if the tranny holds up. Until then, the 'this DSM tranny can hold 750 hp, 650ft-lbs' doesn't hold any weight. So far its only held...what....600 max? (Figure a stripped out car running 130 mph trap speeds and 20% drivetrain loss)

Congrats to Russ though. 10's in any tranny config is good.

 

[BrnOutKing]

Ok all you people who are running these T-60 turbo's....

Tell me you guys have all done internal work.

piston, Rods, etc.?

I keep posting the question of what I can push my turbo HRC S20G. to before the motor will give up?..

It's always said on pump gas you shouldn't go above 18psi.

and race gas 24psi....

there's never been any mention on if you have upgraded internals or anything.

Here's my set up.

Greddy Lg FMIC
HRC S20G
HKS 264/272 Cams
Ported Exhaust manifold
All I/C
Blitz BOV
Ported O2 housing
3" Downpipe
3" Thermal Exhaust
RC 550's
Magnacore 8.5 wires
NGK 1 degree colder plugs.
Injen intake
K&N Filter
A.R.P Head Studs
SAFC
Walboro High Flow 255 fuel pump

I run 20psi every day on pump gas....

and I don't see any knock. (or at least that's what it seems) timing could be getting pulled back. But anyways.
I dyno'd it at 322whp..... at 1600EGT's.
at 20psi. on 92 oct.
Best time of a 13.8@106mph


I dyno'd on C16 at 24psi - 363whp at 1500EGT's.
Best of [email protected]

So what I would love to know is you guys that run the 400+whp. on pump gas.... what did you do to do that?

Is it just that you went with a bigger turbo so it doesn't have work so hard to flow so much? (ie: less heat generated)

or did you do internals?

I don't get it.... if I can make 322whp. on pump gas....why can't someone with a Stock T-25 or 14B just crank the boost up till they hit that much?

I have been told and is my understanding that the stock blocks can handle around 450 crank hp.. so at my 363whp. that's about 420crank HP.

I still wish to turn my boost up past 24psi.....

I would love to see 400whp... with my set up.

I have a fellow DSMR that ran almost the complete set up I did ran on 110 oct Gas 28psi every day. for about a month or two.

Then took it to the track and for his last run tried running 32psi.... and blew up his block.

I believe the only difference is that he was AWD.
,running 770 inj., tubular exhaust manifold, and HKS 264/264 Cams.

His compression on the car was 195 all around.
My car is at 185 for all 4 cyl.

The rest was the same.... so.

Shouldn't I safely be able to try 26psi next time I dyno?
and be safe to run it at the track?


So in short - Can I do 400whp. on stock internals.... safely
or did you guys do some internal work?

My motor has about 40K miles on it. and has been taken apart and checked about 3 times already.... (blown headgasket's,water pump going bad, and 60K tuneup for safety)

-Brian

 

[mclaren55]

Batman,

I got my GT from "fat kid". This guy Jeff, who I got a GT30 from about two years ago. But yes, marco can get them to.

 

[niterydr]

i heard the 60-1 was really hard to tune on pump gas, he wants the biggest trap he can get for PUMP...

 

[supereclipse]

Here is a link for compression maps.http://www.majesticturbo.com/compression.html
For those of you looking for some.

 

[niterydr]

what about the to4e 60 trim, .63 a/r, and stage '3' exhaust wheel vs..
to4b 60-1, .63 a/r and stage 3 exhaust..
anyone run one of these turbos before? what were you hp levels? spool-up times? modifications? boost levels? any problems with compressor surge.

 

[TurboSpoolinIns]

Originally posted by niterydr
what about the to4e 60 trim, .63 a/r, and stage '3' exhaust wheel vs..
to4b 60-1, .63 a/r and stage 3 exhaust..
anyone run one of these turbos before? what were you hp levels? spool-up times? modifications? boost levels? any problems with compressor surge.

talk to shane, josh. he's got 60-1 .82 a/r stage 3 i believe right now. but he had .48 on the stage 5 wheel before and he told me if spooled pretty good.

 

[Slowboy]

I have personally run a 60 MM wheel ( what has been called 60 trim ) for about two years with a .63 turbine side and a stage V turbine wheel. The lag on the street on a stock motor was pretty tough, but on this years motor with crower 64414 cams and JE 9:1 pistons, it spooled up pretty decent. I ran a best MPH of 125.68 with no NOS at 25 psi, and 128.5 with NOS at 23 psi.

The car had a major fire when I was in bed about a week ago.... So testing my new turbo will not be an option, at least on this car! Email me if you want to see pics...

Yes, I said the car caught on fire while I was in bed... WEIRD...

 

[niterydr]

Originally posted by TurboSpoolinIns

talk to shane, josh. he's got 60-1 .82 a/r stage 3 i believe right now. but he had .48 on the stage 5 wheel before and he told me if spooled pretty good.

i thought he had a 57 trim wheel in a T04E housing with the .82 a/r and the stage 3, thats a much differen't turbo versus the 60-1.
oh well...

 

[TurboSpoolinIns]

nope, i'm sure its a 60-1 stg 3 with .82 a/r

he did use to have a 54 trim with stg2 and some exh. housing

 

[2GMitsuGSX]

Hey, I'm new to this forum/site, and I'm really interested in the 2G Eclipse GSX . I'm looking to upgrade my completely *stock* car with a turbo/performance upgrades. I want to run low 12's/mid to high 11's, want it to be streetable and want to pass emissions. I have about 4.5 g's to spend (but the cheaper the better). I don't know what the best parts combo would be for a turbo upgrade, or what the best turbo would be (i don't want a super cheap turbo, i don't want too much turbo lag, so would it be reasonable to spend extra cash on a ball-bearing turbo?). also, are there any (good) kits available? what are the good parts/ones i should avoid from your experiences (also are the hahn racecraft/extreme turbo/greddy turbo systems good)? any help would be appreciated! Thanks!