Which turbo...FP 68HTA or S256et in Dsm housing

[DatMan]

I have a 98 awd and am about to upgrade the turbo. My mod list isn't current since I have more parts in the garage than on the actual car.

Before I purchase the turbo I will have a full custom 3" exhaust done, a walbro fuel pump and 880 injectors. I will be running E85 at some point in the next couple of months. I already have Link v3 installed also. Wideband o2 sitting in the box until the new exhaust goes on.

ARP headstuds also about to go in with the 1 n 1 method. The motor recently had a timing belt change and has good compression.

I already have a front mount installed and full hard piping throughout with a 1g bov.

My goal is a low 11 second full weight car and maybe high 10s if I make it a track car. It's not my daily driver so when I do drive it I am doing it for fun. I don't expect that now but by the fall I will have a 2.0 liter high compression E85 motor fully built and that's when I'll have it at the track. For now I just want a fun street car while the new motor is being built.

Price wise they are pretty similar so it's really just an issue of potential and streetability.

If my goal was to brag about wheel horsepower I'd go with the borg warner but my goal is 1/8 and 1/4 mile times so that's why I am proposing the question.

If it's an honest coin toss I will go with the 68hta.

 

[bastarddsm]

Your not going to go hi 10's on a 68hta. Your probably not gonna do it on a S256. You might see hi 11's on the S256.

Yes the English guys did almost go in the 9's on a hta68, but thats a prepped race car, and your not lucas English.

You had better be prepared to spend big dollars on a transmission, and be prepared to fix it a lot.

It's gonna cost you probably 10k to have a car that will consistantly see 10.99.

 

[Devilman]

Go with the borg warner, your injectors are too small for e85.

 

[96awd]

As he said, it's not his daily. You can hit 10's with the BW and the 68HTA with a good, prepped engine and the driver mod. What transmission will you be running? Your injectors are too small for e85 as stated. I would look into 1150's or 1250's.

 

[bastarddsm]

Your average full weight 5 speed 2g would be lucky to hit 11.99 on a 68hta. Even gutted it's gonna be really tough to get it deep into the 11's. The 68hta isn't that big of a turbo, and the exhaust side is holding it back.

 

[LucasEnglish]

From what I have seen most good turbos seemed to get wrecked when they are put into an un engineered DSM housing. Either low power or real bad spool for power made. From what I have seen the FP turbos are the only ones that truly work well in bolt on housings. For your low 11sec goal in a heavy car I would start with a FPGreen and if you really want 10s in a heavy car then 3052.

Any one could build my 10sec HTA car, Stock auto, Blue wire mod,supporting mods and make the car light. My little auto have more passes with out breaking then any DSM out there.

 

[DatMan]

Your not going to go hi 10's on a 68hta. Your probably not gonna do it on a S256. You might see hi 11's on the S256.

Yes the English guys did almost go in the 9's on a hta68, but thats a prepped race car, and your not lucas English.

You had better be prepared to spend big dollars on a transmission, and be prepared to fix it a lot.

It's gonna cost you probably 10k to have a car that will consistantly see 10.99.

I know the injectors are too small for E85 but I'll be running pump first. I do plan on going bigger once I convert.

If it costs 20k that's what it cost.

 

[bastarddsm]

People have run in the 10's on a 16g size turbos....But they all were record holders before that, and hold records after. And those cars are well prepared race cars built by people who are not new to a fast dsm. Yeah, sure you might be able to go fast on a 68hta, but if your shooting for low 11's/hi 10's, your probably gonna be dissapointed.

I have gone 11's in a full weight 1g on a 56mm turbo, on E85, I'd say I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do it.

But then again, what do I know? I have a 11 sec n/t....

 

[rx7ttlm]

the hta 68 is really only a 10 second turbo in a prepared car. Guys that are more mortal struggle to run 10's on 550hp with 57-60lb compressor wheels. But you WILL break things so I would be prepared to have a stack of spares. Fp has the 3150 out. or 30r.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Your average full weight 5 speed 2g would be lucky to hit 11.99 on a 68hta. Even gutted it's gonna be really tough to get it deep into the 11's. The 68hta isn't that big of a turbo, and the exhaust side is holding it back.

The stock td05h housing yes, but not bolt on housings in general. Lets make that clear. Thanks.

And to go 10s, all you need is a big holset turbo and a halfway decent tune oll

 

[bastarddsm]

The stock td05h housing yes, but not bolt on housings in general. Lets make that clear. Thanks.

And to go 10s, all you need is a big holset turbo and a halfway decent tune oll

IF you could find one of the old BEP td05 housings that would probably be the sweet setup. I also think there are some 8 and 10cm dsm style housings floating around that would be killer too.


Also, you'll need a transmission, suspension, a killer clutch, sticky tires, ect...

 

[SOADweskey]

Gofer is going mid 11s with his 68HTA in a full weight car. I should be going mid 11s with my HX-35 in BEP housing when I get it to the track ( I made about 10 HP more than Gofer on the same dyno, but moving across the country and a blown engine has kept me away from a track for the last few months)

I really don't know crap about running in the 10s but from what I have seen personally it is a struggle with the 68 so if that was my goal I would go with something a bit bigger. The FP 30 varieties seem like where i would look. My friend Hugo has an HX-35 in a modified FP turbine housing. He should get his first passes with it in mid April and I'm looking forward to see how that combo works.

 

[kp116]

I don't have any experience with the hta68 or the s256et but I have gone 10's multiple times running a 6 blade hx40 in the bolt on housing which was actually a pretty inexpensive set up. The hta68 is a amazing turbo and has seen a lot of impressive times on well prepared cars. IMO I would go with something a bit bigger because it would make your goal easier and it would leave you with more room to grow if you wanted to go faster in the future. Good luck with your goal and keep us updated!

 

[Boug]

Briefly, I would submit that Lucas made those times with an automatic transmission car with all the bells and whistles.

Break...

Simply put, can it be done with the 68HTA, sure as it can also be done with the S256. The S256 flows more and will net a higher whp with everything else being the same essentially making your goals easier to achieve.

 

[DSMTyson]

I'm surprised that wasn't his suggestion. I should of known better than to even ask the question. You can never get a straight answer from someone with actual experience. It's always, you can't do this, you can't afford that, buy a holset, why waste your money, my friend did this, this guy is super human and only he can do it, bla bla bla...

Lots of haterade flowing in DSM nation.

You are asking for it dude.

Anyways... If you are stuck on getting only these 2 turbos, get the S256et. It will make more power than the 68hta, and will get you closer to your goal, faster.

Can it be done with the 68hta? sure. Convert to auto with a high stall converter and you will have a much easier time reaching those goals. But, it will be a lot easier with the S256et.

 

[copper90]

go with the 68hta. it's a bad ass turbo..

 

[JusMX141]

Thread cleaned- let's cool it with the flaming and try to stay on topic with the discussion, guys. If the O.P. wants to drop $20k on his build and make an English Racing clone, that's his prerogative....his question is which turbo should he choose for his goal- and I say the S256.

 

[SosaPerformance]

Just to clear things up so there isnt any further confusion, when Lucas went mid to high tens he was on a STOCK high mileage motor and a Stock auto tranny with nothing but a blue wire mod and a STOCK converter so no fancy bells and whistles. Credit Lucas for finding a great combination and sharing the info with us to go as fast as he did but dont discourage anybody else for not be able to do something because they are'nt that certain person or shop. So yes it can be done and is possible but will take a combination of parts working together correctly and proper tuning. G/L

 

[bastarddsm]

Just to clear things up so there isnt any further confusion, when Lucas went mid to high tens he was on a STOCK high mileage motor and a Stock auto tranny with nothing but a blue wire mod and a STOCK converter so no fancy bells and whistles. Credit Lucas for finding a great combination and sharing the info with us to go as fast as he did but dont discourage anybody else for not be able to do something because they are'nt that certain person or shop. So yes it can be done and is possible but will take a combination of parts working together correctly and proper tuning. G/L

Hey wait. It was not a stock motor, it was a 2.3 stroker with HKS 272's
Lets also not forget that the car was gutted to the point he was ready to take the rear brakes off the car.

 

[AWD_Launch]

Hey wait. It was not a stock motor, it was a 2.3 stroker with HKS 272's
Lets also not forget that the car was gutted to the point he was ready to take the rear brakes off the car.

YouTube - Talon AWD TSI 10.8@125 EVOIII 16G Automatic E85

10.8@125 stock motor and 29XX race weight.

 

[bastarddsm]

I was thinking of there more recent 16g/68hta stuff. Still tho if that car was a 5 speed like the op's Its a high 11's car. Also, the op's car is going to be at least 200lbs heavier, so that puts it right at an 11.0 anyway.

 

[DatMan]

I was thinking of there more recent 16g/68hta stuff. Still tho if that car was a 5 speed like the op's Its a high 11's car. Also, the op's car is going to be at least 200lbs heavier, so that puts it right at an 11.0 anyway.

Auto trans won't net a second better time. Now you are saying I'll net high 11s but before I would be lucky to net high 11s with the bigger of the two turbos.

If the 68Hta will get me into the 11s which from what I read and from what I see from other setups that are very close to what I plan on doing. Gofers car comes to mind. Sure the S256 might make it a little easier but I like the thought of sticking with something really built for this platform and doing more with less so to speak.

In December when I get an Evo this car will start heading in the full race car direction anyways.

I want to thank everyone for their input I will be ordering the 68hta in the next 2 weeks and I will post progress as we get it.

I live closer to the 1/8th mile track than I do the 1/4 mile track and that played a small part in the decision also. I know the 68hta is going to better suited for a short track than the slightly bigger 256.

Again thanks for everyones input.

 

[bastarddsm]

If the op went with a s256 and E85, he would have a pretty good chance of getting into the 11's on his first trip to the track. Thats not gonna happen on the 68hta.

 

[dsm-onster]

3100lb is the empty weight for stock awd 1g. To go to 2980lbs with a driver is considered relatively gutted

It certainly is a different car. It doesn't even have an intercooler or exhaust; and runs e98, not e85. It is a racecar. And not something I would drive anywhere but for purpose (coming from personal experience with running no intercooler and a little more meth than Lucas did). With that said, yes anyone can build that particular English build. And anyone can build Kiggly's car too. If you don't want to, get a little more healthy turbo. Afterall, 'Lucas himself posted' a suggestion for a larger one in this very thread .

And yes, I am a firm believer that swapping to an auto will net better ETs with a decent stall for the setup; or a setup built around the stall. Simply look at the results. 10.6sec at 125mph? Yea.

 

[JusMX141]

Thread cleaned....again. If it heads off-topic again, it's getting closed. This isn't a debate thread about what Lucas English's car weighs, what engine is in the car, or how much power it makes.


Real-world results: the S256 has a larger turbine wheel as well as a larger turbine housing a/r than the 68HTA. This means less backpressure, and more overall airflow allowed. I don't care what some miracle car with an amazing tune has done in the past- it is a FACT that a larger turbine wheel and housing combination will flow more air.

O.P.- it's up to you to decide if you'd rather have a quick-spooling turbo with airflow in the mid-40's or a little laggier (but still rather streetable) setup with a compressor capable of around 10 lb/min more. Again, given your goal, I'm saying the S256 would be a better option. Hell I'd even go as far as to say the S259 in a DSM bolt-on housing would be a good choice:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7PUPoBDI4P4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>