What's wrong with my hole?

[bosljeff]

Okay, now that I have your attention:

I have a datalogger cable that works (pretty sure).
I have a palm that works.
I have a hot sync serial cable that is brand new, but may not work.

How can I perform a process of elimination here?

The palm syncs to my cpu via my cradle just fine.
I did a continuity check with the datalogger cable and it lit up so for what that's worth.
I plugged the serial cable to the back of my cpu and tried to sync and it didn't work.

This leads me to believe that the hot sync cable may be bad.

How can I test the data port to make sure it is sending the signal to the datalogging stuff?
I swear it is hooked up right....

Sorry, did a search, but maybe I just suck.

 

[kyle h.]

you can check it with a multimeter. the same pin that the PALM reads from, pin 10 or something? I dont remember how, but the Shop manual should tell you.


well i guess thats if it has any codes...so unplug your o2 sensor

 

[bosljeff]

you can check it with a multimeter. the same pin that the PALM reads from, pin 10 or something? I dont remember how, but the Shop manual should tell you.


well i guess thats if it has any codes...so unplug your o2 sensor

Yeah, that sounds about right. I believe when you bridge 10 and 12, it essentially shorts out the stuff, then sends a signal down whatever wire is hooked to 1. So, which pin would it be with that in mind? 1?

I'll look in the manual and see if that helps.

J

 

[steve]

Pin 12 on the DLC is ground.
Pin 10 on the DLC tells the ECU to go into diagnostic mode when grounded.
Pin 1 on the DLC is the data line. The ECU both talks and listens on this line.

The logger cable converts the signal levels and combines/seperates the transmit and receive.

Use your cradle to test the datalogger cable. If it works the hotsync cable is truely bad.

Steve

 

[bosljeff]

Pin 12 on the DLC is ground.
Pin 10 on the DLC tells the ECU to go into diagnostic mode when grounded.
Pin 1 on the DLC is the data line. The ECU both talks and listens on this line.

The logger cable converts the signal levels and combines/seperates the transmit and receive.

Use your cradle to test the datalogger cable. If it works the hotsync cable is truely bad.

Steve

So if I have the three wires on the datalogger cable, the 2 that are 'Y'ed together would go to 10 and 12 causing 10 to ground, right? Then the solo wire would bo to pin 1, right?

I can't test it that way cuz the ass end of the datalogger cable is a serial while the beginning end of the sync cradle is usb.

 

[steve]

Thats a good clue for me to ask, so what model Palm are we talking about here?

Steve

 

[bosljeff]

It's a palm m130 by the way.

Okay I am stumped.

I now have 2 different hot sync cables. I have tried it wil both of them. I must be doing something wrong.

I have even tried all the combos I can think of with the 3 wires I got and the 3 pins (1, 10, and 12) and so far nothing. What the hell could I be doing wrong. Some of the readings are "real time" right? Like rpm? I have tried to get rpm to work on both Tunerstein and MMCD and nothing. Tuner keeps telling me to regiester. Isn't it freeware? AAAAHHH.

 

[bosljeff]

Someone please do me a really stupid favor:

Give me a simple step by step list of what to do to log with either mmcd or stien.

You can ignore turn car on, but if someone can walk me through the the buttons and so on...

I know it's absurd, but I have tried two different sync cables and the logger cable has continuity and I have tried every combo possible on the hookup at the fuse box, so I don't know what's going wrong. Niether program is getting a signal.

Thanks.

 

[Mark S.]

I'm having the same problem with mmcd. I cant figure it out... its jsut like the palm isn't hooked up to anything.

 

[bosljeff]

I'm having the same problem with mmcd. I cant figure it out... its jsut like the palm isn't hooked up to anything.

Exactly. It is starting to piss me off cuz I have several problems right now that a logger would really help me with....

 

[Diplomat]

1. With the key off, connect an analog multimeter/voltmeter between terminal 1 and 12 on the diagnostic port. Use the appropriate range on the meter to measure 12 volts (that's DC, folks).

2. Turn the ignition to "ON" but don't start the car.

3. The multimeter needle will begin sweeping between 0 and 12 volts. If it moves quickly (roughly half second intervals) and does not stop, this indicates there are no error codes present (normal state). If there are any codes stored, they will be presented to you in a series of 0-12 volt sweeps. The first digit of the code is a sum of the "long/slow" sweeps. The second digit of the code is the sum of the "short/fast" sweeps. For instance, one long sweep immediately followed by one short would be a code 11. Two long and three short would be a code 23 and so on.

Any movement of the needle would indicate that the diagnostic port is working. Unless it moves to the high end of the scale and stops which means your ECU is dead. If this were true you'd have a hard time starting your car.

If you get no needle movement, make sure you're on the right electrical contacts in the port (bottom left and top right) and try again. Also check that your meter is on and that the ignition key is switched to "ON". If you still have no luck, then find someone who really enjoys chasing electrical gremlins and offer to pay them in beer. Otherwise you're lookin' at about $55.00 an hour (if you're lucky) and few issues like this will be solved in less than three hours by most.

After determining the diagnostic port is OK, hook up your datalogger again. The following assumes that you've already installed the MMCd software onto your Palm.

1. Start your car. Turn your Palm on and go the home/main screen. Make sure it says "All" in the top right corner of the screen. This indicates that ALL installed applications are presented on the main screen.

2. Find the MMCd icon (Mitsubishi triple diamond logo) and touch it to start the application. What you'll see listed are any logs (runs) that you've made. If you create multiple logs then you would see a numbered list here. I would suggest you use the "Rename Log" option each time you start a new one. I use short descriptions like,"Third gear WOT from roll" or "Third gear run w/octane boost". If you're troubleshooting a problem, then name the log appropriately,"Light throttle, low rev knock", for instance.

3. Touch the "MMCd" tab in the top left corner. Select "Test" from the drop down menu. This is where you would "Read" any diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs), turn injectors off, monkey with the fuel pump, etc. If you can do any of these things or operate solenoids and such, then you're properly connected and talking with the ECU. Wanna start logging?

4. Touch "Done" (bottom left) to go back to the main MMCd screen. Touch "New" (bottom left). Now you see a divided screen with the various sensors at the top and an empty field at the bottom. Visit MMCd's web site to get definitions of the sensor abbreviations at the top. For starters, RPM = Tachometer (shocking), TPS = Throttle Position Sensor and KNCK = Knock Sensor. Most are easy to figure out on your own.

Now is a good time to name this new log. How 'bout "Initial test run"? To do that, touch the MMCd tab (upper right), select "Log" and then select "Rename Log".

Finally, to begin receiving information from the ECU, touch "Monitor" in the bottom right corner. Then uncheck (touch) the box next to "Pause" in the middle right of the screen. To view information from a sensor, touch it. To see engine speed, touch "RPM" or "INJP" for injector pulse, etc. When done, you must touch "Pause" again in order to exit.

Once you've familiarized yourself with the program, go out make a third gear run. Make sure you recon the road you intend to use or you might be renaming that log "Speed Trap Located".

 

[bosljeff]

Diplomat--

I haven't had a chance to read your post cuz I'm at work, but I'll say thank you cuz it looks insanely helpful.

Thanks.

 

[LandoAWD]

it looks insanely helpful.

Thanks.

Unlike the thread title, IMO. Please TRY to use descriptive titles.

 

[bosljeff]

Unlike the thread title, IMO. Please TRY to use descriptive titles.

Fair enough. I was just trying to get people's attention and be unique enough that people would look and help me. I worry people won't even give the thread a chance sometimes.

Sorry, I'll quit doing that. Thanks Lando.

 

[LandoAWD]

Fair enough. I was just trying to get people's attention and be unique enough that people would look and help me. I worry people won't even give the thread a chance sometimes.

Sorry, I'll quit doing that. Thanks Lando.

I understand the reason, but those "in the know" should reply to an appropriately titled thread as well.

 

[bosljeff]

Fair enough.

 

[bosljeff]

So Diplomat--

This may be a stupid question, but I assume all the readings are real time right?

Thanks again for the work you put into the write up, I really appreciate it. Now I'm a little peeved I bought a fancy digital multimeter, oh well.

Thanks again.
J

 

[Diplomat]

"...I assume all the readings are real time right?"

Right. Or, about as close to real time as you would expect. When you select multiple sensors from the list, the PDA has to "poll" each one in sequence. So the more sensors you select from the list, the longer it takes for the info on each one to be updated. For most of my logs, I'm usually watching between 6 and 8 sensors and I get nice clean graphs. No gaps or values remaining constant, that is.

That datalogger is invaluable once you get it working. I had no idea I was getting so much knock at 14.5 psi on 93 octane. As usual my parts wish list grows faster than the checking account balance.

 

[Talonman]

the logger cable that goes from the diagnostic port to the 9 pin serial connector, it must be wired to null modem standards (pins 2 and 3 switched), which is different than a cable made to work with a laptop. Palm uses null modem wiring for its cables, check this with where you bought the logger cable from, you could get a db pin extractor tool from radio shack and try switching pins 2 and 3 in the 9 pin connector side.

 

[bosljeff]

the logger cable that goes from the diagnostic port to the 9 pin serial connector, it must be wired to null modem standards (pins 2 and 3 switched), which is different than a cable made to work with a laptop. Palm uses null modem wiring for its cables, check this with where you bought the logger cable from, you could get a db pin extractor tool from radio shack and try switching pins 2 and 3 in the 9 pin connector side.

I have no idea what much of that meant, but for starters, I will get a hold of the company and find out that answer then bother you about the radio shack tool and stuff. Thanks, cuz I did the analog voltmeter thing and my port is testing fine, so I had no idea where to go from there and this seems a very valid solution. Thanks, I'll be bothering you later.

Jeff

 

[steve]

If your interested the correct terms are DCE and DTE.
RS232 communications have two types of devices, Data Terminal Equipment and Data Communications Equipment. This dates back from teletypes and modems and defines what signals are on what pins and which direction they go.

The IBM PC serial port is configured as a DTE and designed for connecting a modem to it. It transmits it's data on pin 2 and receives data on pin 3. The device that plugs into the port is configured as a DCE and receives data on pin 2 and transmits it on pin 3.

The Palm serial hotsync cable is designed to plug into a PC serial port and therefore is a DCE.
A datalogger cable intended for use with a PC is also a DCE.
A datalogger cable intended for use with a Palm PDA is configured as a DTE.

DCE's can't talk to DCE's nor can DTE's talk to DTE's because they both try to transmit on the same pin and receive on the other. That's where a null modem adaptor comes in. At minimum it switches pin 2 on one side to pin 3 on the other and pin 3 on the first side to pin 2 on the other. That takes care of the electrical side of things. On the mechanical side you need something to account for the connector sex because both connectors are likely to be the same.

All that said, if the logger cable you received plugged right into the device your using then it should have been properly set up for the DTE/DCE issue, not that I haven't seen screwed up cables. The issues left are is the cable any good or is there something wrong keeping the PDA from using it's serial port. Some PDAs like some of the sonys need power applied to a serial port pin before they will talk. The problem with some of the newer Palms is they no longer support the odd data rate the datalogger interface uses.

Bottom line is that the vendor who sold you the datalogger cable should take care of this support issue but most of them just want your money not your problems.

Steve

 

[bosljeff]

1. Start your car. Turn your Palm on and go the home/main screen. Make sure it says "All" in the top right corner of the screen. This indicates that ALL installed applications are presented on the main screen.

2. Find the MMCd icon (Mitsubishi triple diamond logo) and touch it to start the application. What you'll see listed are any logs (runs) that you've made. If you create multiple logs then you would see a numbered list here. I would suggest you use the "Rename Log" option each time you start a new one. I use short descriptions like,"Third gear WOT from roll" or "Third gear run w/octane boost". If you're troubleshooting a problem, then name the log appropriately,"Light throttle, low rev knock", for instance.

3. Touch the "MMCd" tab in the top left corner. Select "Test" from the drop down menu. This is where you would "Read" any diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs), turn injectors off, monkey with the fuel pump, etc. If you can do any of these things or operate solenoids and such, then you're properly connected and talking with the ECU. Wanna start logging?

Yeah, after I try this is says: "serial comm error".

 

[Talonman]

I have no idea what much of that meant, but for starters, I will get a hold of the company and find out that answer then bother you about the radio shack tool and stuff. Thanks, cuz I did the analog voltmeter thing and my port is testing fine, so I had no idea where to go from there and this seems a very valid solution. Thanks, I'll be bothering you later.

Jeff

THe cable I got has 2 screws holding the connector together on the 9 pin side (the side that goes together with your Palm cable) take the plastic cover off the connector and switch pins 2 and 3 they are labeld in small writing on the black part inside the connector. Or take it to radio shack and ask them to switch pins 2 and 3 and offer to buy the pin extraction tool, those geeks will love to help you out. Worth a try if all else fails. You may have gotten a cable for a pc or laptop??

 

[bosljeff]

THe cable I got has 2 screws holding the connector together on the 9 pin side (the side that goes together with your Palm cable) take the plastic cover off the connector and switch pins 2 and 3 they are labeld in small writing on the black part inside the connector. Or take it to radio shack and ask them to switch pins 2 and 3 and offer to buy the pin extraction tool, those geeks will love to help you out. Worth a try if all else fails. You may have gotten a cable for a pc or laptop??

Sweet, thank you. That's what i needed. I will probably try that. The place that sold me the cable wrote this back to me when I asked them what you all told me to ask them:

"Well I will not know unless I look at it myself. You can send it back and I will check it myself or replace it. Just let me know what you want to do. Thanks "

Wouldn't you think if they made the cable that they should know this answer?

I'll try your idea and go from there.

Thanks for all the help everyone, I really need this logger to work to find out what the hell is wrong with my ride.

Jeff

 

[Talonman]

also look here and verify you have a PDA thats Palm Operating system 3.5 or Higher, and its one of the PDAs thats supported.