What's the deal with PTE 360* Thrust Plates?

[TurboDSM90]

Nothing like polishing a turd.

Like I mentioned over on the link forums......If this thing didnt perform, it would be in the trash.


Its amazing how the sheep are led. Give a couple turbos away to shops, put out good numbers, but in the end a poor quality product.

I still have faith in Garrett turbos thats for sure. Made in mexico ones have been good to me over the years

Let me know if you need any measurements Justin, you should start stocking rebuild kits for these things....by the hundreds!

 

[JusMX141]

I have about six parts kits right now- they're just the same as any other T3 360* kit to my knowledge....at least that's what I've been using, and they've been working.

 

[twicks69]

Justin, are you able to get a 360 thrust setup for my Borg warner S400SX3 74mm unit? It is part number 177101 for the turbo. It has always had a lot of play since brand new and causes a lot of blowby into the system.

Tim Zimmer via Evo Phone

 

[JusMX141]

I remember seeing somewhere that Bullseye was either testing or had released a 360* thrust plate for BW turbos. You may want to get in touch with Wild Bill Devine and see if he can offer you any upgrade option.

Even though the BW turbos use a 270* thrust plate from the factory, it's head-and-shoulders more durable than the 270* system that Garrett offers. There are guys running BW turbos to 40psi and I've yet to see one with any significant in/out shaft play from thrust plate wear.

 

[twicks69]

I remember seeing somewhere that Bullseye was either testing or had released a 360* thrust plate for BW turbos. You may want to get in touch with Wild Bill Devine and see if he can offer you any upgrade option.

Even though the BW turbos use a 270* thrust plate from the factory, it's head-and-shoulders more durable than the 270* system that Garrett offers. There are guys running BW turbos to 40psi and I've yet to see one with any significant in/out shaft play from thrust plate wear.

Bullseye has had theirs available but want $300 for the bearing and 300 labor.

 

[JusMX141]

The labor seems a bit ridiculous unless they have to machine something on the center housing. I could literally install a BW thrust plate in 15-20 minutes if that's all that needed to be done.

 

[twicks69]

I don't believe that there is any sort of special machine work required.

 

[Robert Young]

if you have a steel steel thrust bearing like many of the T3/T4 ones pictured in this thread, then you need to be sure the oil you are running is a high ZDDP oil. Many of the burned out T4 bearing pics in this thread are oil failures.

BOOSTON!

Robert Young

 

[Ppayer38]

Could you list for us a few high ZDDP oils?

As I am about to replace my turbo I would like to know some of this info now

 

[TurboDSM90]

Could you list for us a few high ZDDP oils?

As I am about to replace my turbo I would like to know some of this info now

http://store.forcedperformance.net/...Performance Recommendations for Motor Oil.pdf

I have used shell rotella non synthetic oil for the last 3-4 years. I dont think the oil is to blame on my turbo failure.

 

[JusMX141]

if you have a steel steel thrust bearing like many of the T3/T4 ones pictured in this thread, then you need to be sure the oil you are running is a high ZDDP oil. Many of the burned out T4 bearing pics in this thread are oil failures.

It's the oil's fault that the thrust washer explodes? I suppose it could be the heat caused by excessive thrust loads and not enough oil to protect, but I'm honestly not seeing these failures on customer T3 turbos I've rebuilt using a cupped (MHI-style) thrust washer.

 

[TurboDSM90]

It's the oil's fault that the thrust washer explodes? I suppose it could be the heat caused by excessive thrust loads and not enough oil to protect, but I'm honestly not seeing these failures on customer T3 turbos I've rebuilt using a cupped (MHI-style) thrust washer.

Justin, the rebuild kit I just got has that cupped style washer as opposed to the flat style one that came off the turbo. This is all very promising info and it looks like I'll be throwing the notsoprecision turbo back on.

 

[JusMX141]

Oh yes, I'm back with more.

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[a1320eclipse]

What about in the newer models? I just oredered my billet 6265 journal bearing turbo. Im used to seeing these on hondas and they do straight work. Ive been doin the honda thing for years and taking a shot at another DSM. So after reading this im kinda concerned.

 

[JusMX141]

See post #48.

 

[nitrouskris]

JusMX141

have you had anymore failures with the pte turbo

 

[forcefed86]

Ever see the big shaft PTE turbos come in with failures? The turbo Buick community runs a lot of PTE turbos. I've personally only run the big shaft PTE units. Never had any thrust failures. I run my PT-68 at 28-30psi. I have however rebuilt this turbo twice in the past 5 years. Usually due to excessive side to side play. I always rebuilt it before it got to the point of damaging blades/housings. (using the G-pop garret kits) Probably caused by hg material/bearings material etc from various blown HG's and bearings material. I'm pretty hard on engines, I figured this was normal.

Seems like it's the smaller t3 based units are the ones crapping out. The buick based turbos seem to be holding up. We don't hear about failures much on the boards.

Great info though, thanks for this thread!

 

[JusMX141]

have you had anymore failures with the pte turbo

All the time- I just got tired of adding them to the thread because obviously the point has been made and proven.

Ever see the big shaft PTE turbos come in with failures?

I have not, and the reason is the thrust washer on the big-shaft turbos are all cupped like the example in post #60.

However, like your example, I've definitely seen the big-shaft PTE units fail in the seal and/or journal bearing department even when no lack or oil or contamination was evident.

 

[2slow4now]

One more pte6152 to add to the list. Is this the official running total or totaled thread?

I got it used but it looked to be in good shape so I really don't know the life it had before. It was fed from the OFH with a 4an and 10an drain. I never even pushed it over 15lbs boost. When it started to go I was barely pushing any boost more like a cruise than anything. I could hear it tinging the housing but didn't know what it was.

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You can see were the blades were hitting the compressor cover.
Time for a holset or gt35.

 

[JusMX141]

The official analysis is PTE's use of a steel thrust plate with the flat thrust washer then failing to notify their customers that a high-ZDDP oil is required. They also use rotating assemblies that are too large and operate at too high of a boost level for the T3 Garrrett-based center housing to properly support.

What happens is the heavy rotating assembly pulls on the rotating assembly and loads the thrust system. The higher the boost level, the higher the thrust load. The friction from the steel-on-steel thrust system causes heat to build rapidly when the improper oil is used, and the result is the thrust washer (which is the thinnest part of the entire thrust system) overheats and explodes causing the failures listed in this thread.

At the very least PTE should be notifying the users that using the proper oil can prolong the life of the turbo, but honestly I don't see where the use of a steel thrust plate is necessary. It's probably causing more failures than it's preventing. You don't need to use a steel thrust plate on a turbo with a thrust system that is well-designed in order to gain necessary durablilty, proven by BW and Holset.

 

[We're on Boost]

At the very least PTE should be notifying the users that using the proper oil can prolong the life of the turbo, but honestly I don't see where the use of a steel thrust plate is necessary. It's probably causing more failures than it's preventing. You don't need to use a steel thrust plate on a turbo with a thrust system that is well-designed in order to gain necessary durablilty, proven by BW and Holset.

My suggestion for manufacturers who want a strong plain thrust bearing with wear characteristics better than steel on steel was given a couple years ago in evom, here in post #35 (Talonboost).

ATTN: FP Red & Black Users - What You Need to Know About Oil - Page 3 - evolutionm.net

This though was about FP Black and Red turbos. Their solution apparently was to offer them with ball bearings, instead of trying to improve the plain bearing design.

 

[JusMX141]

Correct....which is why ball-bearing PTE turbos seem to live just fine on our cars while their journal bearing turbos can't make it to the first oil change.

 

[OH91awd]

So after reading through this I'm glad I didn't spend $950 on a pte 6262. I think I'm going to go take a look at my old pte 50 trim and see what caused it to fail but more in depth.

 

[We're on Boost]

Here is another thread tough on PTE turbos, for anybody interested:

Garrett Turbochargers and the Truth - Yellow Bullet Forums

 

[YoYo_4G63]

Here is my scm6152 i forgot to remove the oil restrictor after ofh porting and didn't last one pull

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Could be worse, thanks god i took it apart. I hope with the garrett repair kit can hold the abuse