What should I do with this manifold?

[Jamesdorsey89]

Well, over the weekend I decided to see if I could find the exhaust leak I have heard around the front of the motor. I took the heat shield off and it revealed a HUGE crack in the manifold

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So I found a used 2g manifold that had been ported already. The guy was asking $90 for it which I was able to talk down to $70. Well I meet the guy to look at the manifold and there are some small cracks on the inside where all of the runners come together. So I ended up getting the manifold for $60. I didn't think that was to bad of a deal.

My question is, what should I do about these cracks? I have heard some types of welding make it more prone to break again. Which type of welding should I have done to it? I know how to weld, but I am guessing it is something different that MIG welding. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

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[JusMX141]

Leave the cracks alone. I wish some of the manifolds I've bought / sold over the years looked like the one you were buying.

The cracks occur from rapid heating / cooling, and are most likely sealed 100% when the casting swells from 1600* heat. You could try to talk him down to $50 for the cracks being there, but I've never heard of cracks that small effecting performance in any way.

 

[Jamesdorsey89]

Ok, that is what I thought. I would talk him down further, but I ended up just buying it yesterday because I had a feeling they wouldn't effect anything. The rest of the manifold looks great except the broken off heat shield bolts that I will have to extract....

I also plan to port the turbo, should I buy a nicer gasket for the turbo seeing that you take the lip off that the ring gasket sat on? Or should I be ok with a run of the mill gasket from my local parts store?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[pboglio]

Don't buy it. He's ported the flow divider down, what a stupid thing to do. Say goodbye to your spoolup. Avoid it.

 

[pj91gsx]

Don't buy it. He's ported the flow divider down, what a stupid thing to do. Say goodbye to your spoolup. Avoid it.

when the air gets to that point of the manifold that divided doesnt make a difference because its all air pressure and heat. where do you get your theory?

for the OP i had good success with welding with a mig weld, gas cooled. I only welded the external area of the cracks. took a gring and cut into the cracks and filled it with weld.

 

[ramsack]

the air exhaust that is otherwise going to spool the turbo is going to just collide and lose energy. i wouldn't buy it. it will eventually look like your manifold.

 

[Jamesdorsey89]

It's all good, I will just throw it on. I am just trying to get this car back on the road on a budget. I picked the car up for $935 and so far only have about $1,500 into it including the cost of the car. I just have to put the new power steering rack in it and this exhaust manifold and it should be all set for the road. Another maybe $200 in paint and body work and it should be well worth the $1,700.

I am selling my motorcycle to pay for this car right now seeing it is a toy so I have a budget of $2000. I am currently driving a 3rd gen eclipse which I am working on replacing with the GSX. Performance parts don't come into play until I sell the 3rd gen so this manifold will do until then.

Thank you all for the replies! Keep them coming if you think of anything before the end of the day. I should be installing it tonight along with the re-manufactured rack.

 

[pj91gsx]

the air exhaust that is otherwise going to spool the turbo is going to just collide and lose energy. i wouldn't buy it. it will eventually look like your manifold.

Think about this... boost is airpressure, in order for it to make airpressure the air volume must be pressing up against all the walls of the intercooler pipes and manifold. The air pressure in the exhaust is going to be the same way to spool that turbo. How much spool time do you think you would loose even if you logic was true?

 

[ramsack]

your logic is flawed because the exhaust is not boost, it is spinning a turbine to make boost. the turbine needs heat and velocity. runners for 1&4 and 2&3 are also separated for a reason. cutting down that divider will yield little gain, if any, and probably hurt spool.

 

[pj91gsx]

your logic is flawed because the exhaust is not boost, it is spinning a turbine to make boost. the turbine needs heat and velocity. runners for 1&4 and 2&3 are also separated for a reason. cutting down that divider will yield little gain, if any, and probably hurt spool.

i cant prove my theory neither can you, i just go by what i was told. The move area you port the more air that gets out of the cylinders, but the key porting areas for that are at the head.

 

[ramsack]

porting is for top-end power, not spool. this is what pboglio said (not verbatim) and i agree with him. keeping flow divided by exhaust pulses is not theory. take any turbo that is a single-scroll and make it a twin-scroll system and you will gain more spool and most likely some top end hp.

 

[TiradoCC]

It will be fine you can use it.
Here is how one of the best in the industry, Jeff Bush from English Racing, ports a 2g manifold. Jeff also does all the porting on the English Racing cylinder heads for high hp evo/dsm.
Notice the reduced divider........

Here's some porting so far on the 2G mani, I'll go in depth later

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[pj91gsx]

porting is for top-end power, not spool. this is what pboglio said (not verbatim) and i agree with him. keeping flow divided by exhaust pulses is not theory. take any turbo that is a single-scroll and make it a twin-scroll system and you will gain more spool and most likely some top end hp.

oh me... with more porting you should see more power sooner, i dont see why it would make a difference when it gets to that point when the air is going to be constantly forced into the turbo, its not like air from runner 1 is going to get confused and go down runner 4 and back into the cylinder and back threw the intake.

 

[96_killer]

Owned....

 

[ramsack]

cylinder 1 and 4 are together, and separated from cylinders 2 and 3. 1&4 and 2&3 are 90 degrees from each other. these exhaust forces to act against each other if not separated. heat and velocity = spool time, not flow. when you have more flow you lose heat and velocity. velocity and heat make turbos spool quick, but these designs are not good for top end. flow is good for top end and ultimate high hp.

the manifold he is getting looks ported on the outlet. if this turbo inlet isn't ported there will be a step and that would be bad too.

 

[Jamesdorsey89]

the manifold he is getting looks ported on the outlet. if this turbo inlet isn't ported there will be a step and that would be bad too.

Don't worry, I am planning on porting the inlet on the turbo as well as the waste gate after I get the new power steering rack installed.



I am definitely seeing where ramsack is coming from. As an engineering student, what he is saying makes sense to me. If anything, I don't think what he is saying is false on any account. Take four blow guns and aim them at acute angle to a pipe and then try pointing them all straight down the pipe. Something tells me you would see that the air would flow differently. The less turbulence the exhaust sees will result in less heat (aka energy) being lost. It just seems that when I think of it that way it makes sense. Now does that mean that what I am saying is right or that you will see a drastic difference, who knows. It just seems like there is some merit to what ramsack is saying.

I know I am still a student and I don't proclaim to know everything, however I think that it is still grounds for some knowledge background. I'll make sure to pay real close attention when I have to take Heat transfer and Thermodynamics.

 

[HadesOmega]

I would use it, especially compared to your other one, thats the worse crack I've ever seen in a manifold! I bet if I didn't replace mine when I did my 16G install it'd look like yours.

This reminds me I should check my manifold out...

 

[ramsack]

my manifold was cracked quite badly on the #4 runner and i thought it was warped because on #4 it would not sit flat on the head and there was oil inside there from the vc gasket leaking. went to put on a brand new manifold and it rocked back and forth on the head, so my head is warped and it still leaks just as bad.

 

[pj91gsx]

cylinder 1 and 4 are together, and separated from cylinders 2 and 3. 1&4 and 2&3 are 90 degrees from each other. these exhaust forces to act against each other if not separated. heat and velocity = spool time, not flow. when you have more flow you lose heat and velocity. velocity and heat make turbos spool quick, but these designs are not good for top end. flow is good for top end and ultimate high hp.

the manifold he is getting looks ported on the outlet. if this turbo inlet isn't ported there will be a step and that would be bad too.

i was making an exacterated example, dam. SAY you are right... Why would you rather have greater spool time over more top end flow anyway? For race people they port it out as much as possible before cracking. I ported everything huge on my car and i was very happy with the power it made when it hit full boost. The 14b and 16g turbos are so small anyway they spool quick regardless. If anyone has dyno sheets or logs to show the difference in spool time from cutting out that piece id like to see it until then its just a theory you have and i have.

 

[91stocker]

for $70 you can get a NEW stainless tube mani

 

[ramsack]

those stainless tubular manifolds are junk, and escpecially for that cheap.

not everyone likes their car to be a race car and daily drives theirs, and likes their car to be decently quick without constantly red-lining it. with a small turbo like the 14b or 16 minimal gains would be had to porting for a non-high-hp car and why then would one want to sacrifice spool?

 

[pj91gsx]

those stainless tubular manifolds are junk, and escpecially for that cheap.

not everyone likes their car to be a race car and daily drives theirs, and likes their car to be decently quick without constantly red-lining it. with a small turbo like the 14b or 16 minimal gains would be had to porting for a non-high-hp car and why then would one want to sacrifice spool?

have you ever seen the car with a 14b that runs quarters in the 10s?

 

[JusMX141]

for $70 you can get a NEW stainless tube mani which will crack around the collector in 8 months or less, as well as raise your engine bay temps about 200*.

Fixed.


I had a good buddy go through a Pacesetter header AND one of your eBay special DNP knockoffs- neither one lasted more than a year. He finally ended up with a nice ported Evo III manifold, which has been on the car ever since.

 

[ramsack]

have you ever seen the car with a 14b that runs quarters in the 10s?

what is your point? there is no way anything inside an engine with a setup like that is stock. there has to be porting of the manifold, turbo, and everything else. a car like that won't spool like a stock car. i also think a 14b like that is modded in every way possible with better turbine and compressor stuff. still in a 14b body though, so it's still a "14b" kind of.

as i said not everyone is into that stuff. i personally think drag racing is all about a car and not really a sport at all. it is all about reaction time, and you could consider tapping a key on a keyboard when a light flashes on the screen a sport. not for me, and i would never want a car that would even run 11s.

 

[pj91gsx]

what is your point? .

you said minimal gains..