What do i need to be able to use my 20g??

[futurevokiller]

so i ordered a t3 20g, tubular t3 mani, and tubular o2 housing cause i got a good deal on it. since then, its been sitting in my garage because my 91 gsx is all stock, and i realized i would probably actually be slower with it on due to lag. i recently ordered a 2g maf, and intake pipe, and a set of 550cc injectors. from what ive been able to find, the maf and injectors should cancel each other out fairly well and result in a decent running car.. in theory anyways, we'll see how it goes in about a week. oh and i found out my 14b has bad seals so its throwin oil through my smic and ic pipes.. so i really want to get that 20g on if i would be ok running it with just the intake maf and injectors..

so here's the question, what other mods do i need to have done in order to get anything out of my 20g? i realize a frontmount will be necessary to keep that thing cool, but im broke right now.. would it be ok since i live in WA and its gonna be cold for the next few months till i can upgrade? i will probably only run at 8 or maybe 10 psi since it is my daily driver. also, would i need to get an afc or something to tune with to put on the turbo? and obviously i would need to get an exhaust sometime too to open her up.. please help!!

oh and also, if anyone wants to buy the turbo, manifold, and o2 housing for 500 bucks shipped (what i paid), so i can get a 16g or new 14b pm me for pics. its a really nice setup, and ive got new gaskets for all the connections. it says hahn on it, i think it might be a hahn super 20g, since its got a t3 hotside. idk pm me if interested

 

[GSXSixteenG]

It will be fine at 8-10psi (no where near as efficient as a 14b at that level) but if you want to turn it up any higher your going to want something to control fuel.

EDIT: How do you plan to control your boost levels? Internal gate? External gate? Do you have a mbc?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

You'll need larger than 550's to get any serious power from a 20g. You've got a '91 it should have an EPROM ECU in it. I'd look into pulling the ECU out, sending it to Steve for a cap replacement and socketing, then buy an ostrich to do your own tuning and trade those 550's for some larger injectors. Then start looking at FMIC's and other supporting stuff listed in the upgrade paths section of this site.

 

[futurevokiller]

oh yeah i forgot that part, i have a halman mbc that i am gonna put on sometime.

whats an ostrich? i know absolutely zero about tuning so bear with me please. in fact, what exactly is an EPROM ECU? the 550's wouldnt be enough for the 20g, even if i got a tuning system and turned them up or something? and am i correct in assuming that the smic will be sufficient if im running at maybe 10-12 psi? only temporarily of course, till i can afford a fmic setup.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

EPROM ECU: There is an "Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory" module soldered to the ECU's board that holds information about how the car runs. Modifying this information allows you to correctly compensate for the 2g mas and injectors you put in. In effect not ever needing to buy a SAFC. Most people contact Jeff O. @ DSMChips.com | DSM ECU Chips Enchanced by Keydiver and tell him their mods. He will then burn you a chip to replace your stock one with the updated information about your modifications. It will run good this way. I believe all '91's have an EPROM ECU. Some of the cars have a NON-EPROM ECU in which you cannot do any of this modifications to.

Alternatively, if you want to do your own tuning:

Ostrich: The ostrich is a device made my Welcome to www.moates.net! : Moates.Net. It is an EPROM Emulator. That means it emulates or "Acts as" an EPROM chip. You plug a cable into where the EPROM would go in the ECU and the other end plugs into the ostrich unit. A USB cable then connects your laptop to the ostrich and you can, in real time, program the information to the ostrich through the program "TunerPRO RT". Or you can buy a chip burner and burn keep erasing and burning new chips till you get your tune down.

Anyway you go, whether it be just a plug in chip, ostrich, dsmlink, Jackal, etc... You will want to send your ECU out to Steve, Jeff @ DSMChips, or Tom at ECMTuning to replace your 18 year old capacitors before they leak and destroy your ECU and get the stock EPROM desoldered and a Socket put in its place. This is so that you can remove and install your chip, emulator, or dsmlink module easily.

550's would be good if you were staying with a 16g but a 20g flows way too much air for them. You'll max them out very quickly.

The SMIC will be ok for a while but you'll want to look into replacing it with a FMIC before too long. It's one of the best improvements i've ever made short of meth injection for my car. Here's my very cost effective setup I installed about a year ago: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/305344-check-out-my-short-route.html

 

[futurevokiller]

awesome thanks man! about how much would it cost to have my chip done? and about how much would an ostrich and the tuning program for my laptop cost? thank you!

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Ostrich: Ostrich 2.0 : The New Breed [OSTRICH_2] - $175.00 : Moates.Net
TunerPRO: TunerPro RT [TPRT] - $30.00 : Moates.Net
DSMlink: ECMTuning, Inc.
DSMChips: DSMChips.com | DSM ECU Chips Enchanced by Keydiver
Steve's EPROM Service: DSM (Talon Eclipse Laser) and 3S (3000GT and Stealth) ECU Service and Repair

 

[Rockbmx1]

The socketing and chip are fairly cheap. The ostrich/jackel is a good way to tune for 1g's. You could also get and SAFC or MAFT setup too. I would just slap the 20g on and rock it, cause you will end up wanting more power then 16g as some point and the 20g will give you that extra power. There really isn't that big of a difference with spool either, unless you have all the biggest options with the 20g, we are only talking like 500rpm.

 

[gstryyder]

for now you would be fine running 10 psi with what you have done. but as the other guys said. for future mods is great advice. very cheap to get that car running good with a 20g...


and as for the question of what other stuff you need? if you have an aftermarket DP, exhaust, intake, mbc, 2g maf, and 550's.... you could run that thing at about 12psi with no other mods. not the best idea without a tuning tool... but can be done. and it will pull pretty damn good.

if you get something to read your a/f ratio and a basic tuning device (esp if yo socket your eprom)you could run about 13-15psi. and that thing would be a beast compared to your stocker turbo.

i ran a t3 tube mani, t3 20g, mbc, and intake exhaust all that on a 2g. 12psi. no problems. (I DO NOT ADVISE DOING THIS! BUT JUST SAYING...) with 550's and a greddy emanage, and wideband on top of that i was running 17-19 psi. (had a 190lph pump tho...) but at the basics and 12psi it pulled harder... way harder then the stocker. at 17-19 hold on...

i did run 13psi on an all stock car besides the 20g, tube mani, intake and exhaust on a 2g. STOCK fuel n all. no tuner... and it held up great for quite a few miles with no problems period.

i am saying this again. i am not ADVISING YOU to go out and do what i did. just saying it can be done. with what mods you have. i would say 12 psi is safe and will feel like more turbo then your 14b...

ive had my share of experience with dsm's. know what ya can do. but some things you can do are not advised to do. . good luck with your setup. you will have a blast.

just pointing out it can be done

 

[rEclipserGST]

Why would you run a 20g at anything lower than 20 psi??? I know you say it only temporary. But even I would wait. The 14b can push 20 psi and live on 550s.

A good way to thing of it is like this:

14b is cool around 14 lbs
a 16g is cool around 16 lbs
a 18g is cool around 18 lbs
a 20g is cool around 20 lbs

You can ALWAYS push more lbs IF you have the correct supporting mods. I replaced my T25 with a 14b, great improvement. I have 560 evo injectors, 190 walbro fuel pump, safc, ebc, and supra smic. After I snag an exhaust and a wideband... it's 20g time. I do not do things in the opposite order. That will lead to in the long run and eventually on your blown up car.

 

[futurevokiller]

first of all thanks everyone for the input.
well i want to run it at low boost because its my daily and i dont want to pay for gas pushin 20psi all day.. i like to get on it, and its hard to keep gas in the tank with it all stock!

but i think im just going to put on my intake maf and 550's, and probably my mbc too. then i think ill keep my 14b on a little bit longer, till i can afford at least an afc or exhaust or something. i know it would be a lot better if i just waited and put it on once i had more supporting mods. its just hard having that big turbo, manifold, and o2 housing all sittin in my garage in a box with all new gaskets!

oh and i read a little thing about rewiring the fuel pump. i was wondering if that would be a good thing to do while im at it? even though its the stock pump still? anyone got a 190 for sale?

 

[gstryyder]

Just an fyi. That 20g would net you about 5-8mpg more on the highway n around town and keep you from putting your foot into boost so often. Saves AOLT on gas. Rewiring the stock pump is a great idea; unless you can get a 190lph with a better power source. You can find those a dime a dozen.

btw... a 20g when it hits at about 12psi is cooler then a 14b at 14 psi... Just because the turbo is not in its powerband quite yet does not mean it wouldn't net better result or have benefits. I would take my 20g back and slap it on if i still had it. My stock turbo maxed out is nothing compared to what the 20g was at 13-14psi... The fact it will pull to redline instead of falling off is the big key...The later spool is better for a DD if you want gas mileage; and the 3500-4000 rpm kick all the way to redline is definitley more of a fun powerband that havin a turbo that falls off at 5500 or 6000 rpms... (personal opinion....)

plus... getting 4-500 miles out of a tank of gas when i am cruising on the freeway is pretty awesome.

 

[futurevokiller]

awesome thanks for the info man! i think im just gonna go ahead and install it then once ive got my 2g maf, intake, and 550's on. do you think it would run decent if i had no tuning system with all that stuff on? the full list of mods would be: intake, 2g maf, 550cc injectors, tubular exhaust manifold and o2 housing, and of course the t3 20g. what do you think? since its winter i figured i can get by with just the smic till spring when i can afford a fmic.. and exhaust is gonna have to wait too. im broke