Valvetrain resonance/rattling

[Turbo Talon DL]

I just put on a new head with BC springs/retainers and Manley SS stock-sized valves with a used set of HKS 264/272 cams. It had this stupid annoying rattle between 2600 and 2800 rpm before I swapped the head. It still has the noise at the same RPM but only its much more quiet now. What causes this crap?

Do these camshafts have a history of developing some sort of runout?

 

[HIGHPSI4]

Were the valves, springs and cams on the first head or just on the new one? Did you use the same HLA's?

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Were the valves, springs and cams on the first head or just on the new one? Did you use the same HLA's?

Just the cams. Everything is new from SBR. The valves, guides, seals, springs, retainers, keepers, and the cam bearing caps were torqued properly as per the Haynes manual. Lifters do not tick anymore either seeing as they're new also. What do you mean by HLA's? My Harmonic damper is in the process of failing also. I'm not sure if this has something to do with it or not.

Damper is not failing but I have more noise coming from what sounds like either the timing belt or the exhaust cam. Its a shreaking/squealing noise that is more pronounced when the car shuts off...

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Im not trying to bump my own thread but just updating with yet ANOTHER 'issue'. I have a different resonance at around 5000 rpm now. I am gonna change out these used HK$ camshafts and install the stocks and see what happens. Any input will be very valuable. I pulled the valve cover Saturday and no metal shavings were found and everything is where it should be. I almost have no idea what this is. These cars have been around for a 'while' so I would expect somebody to be able to fill me in.

 

[Maglin]

The thing is you are not explaining the noise throughly enough for most to understand what it is. And the Harmonic Dampener is either good or it is bad. It is currently failing but not the problem is not a proper symptom. The rubber could be pushing out the front and it hasn't broken yet maybe. You would actually be very surprised how much noise a broken Harmonic Dampener makes.

Take the belts off and start it up and see if the noise is still their. Also check to ensure the outter right of the dampener hasn't broken loose of the hub/rubber. If it has then you MUST replace it. When you run it without the belts you should be able to pin point the noise. IT's a good chance your A/S tensioner pulley bearings have failed causing this noise. It's a pretty common occurance.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

The thing is you are not explaining the noise throughly enough for most to understand what it is. And the Harmonic Dampener is either good or it is bad. It is currently failing but not the problem is not a proper symptom. The rubber could be pushing out the front and it hasn't broken yet maybe. You would actually be very surprised how much noise a broken Harmonic Dampener makes.

Damper is not the cause. That has been ruled out. I ran the engine with no covers, pulleys, and with only the timing belt installed.


Take the belts off and start it up and see if the noise is still their. Also check to ensure the outter right of the dampener hasn't broken loose of the hub/rubber. If it has then you MUST replace it. When you run it without the belts you should be able to pin point the noise. IT's a good chance your A/S tensioner pulley bearings have failed causing this noise. It's a pretty common occurance.

I pinpointed the noise to the belt itself. It goes away after the engine gets warm. Its a metal-on-metal resonance/rattle. It happens just below 3000 rpm and around 5000 rpm now. The tensioner pulley (A/S is the autotensioner pulley right?) was replaced last year and the idler pulley was checked for security during the install. I probably suck at this stuff....I read the books and use the right tools and torque specs. I know everything cant possibly expect to be perfect but I mean seriously! Car still drives pretty hard after getting up to around 206*.

 

[romeen]

I'm am having a similar issue. It happens at exactly 2K rpm....always. Every single time my car hits 2K it makes a rattling sound. Doesn't matter if I'm idling or driving.

I haven't isolated it yet but if I do I'll let you know.

Are you sure it's not part of the exhaust contacting the underbody?

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I know for a fact that its the valvetrain or something topend related. I have run open O2 housing and the noise was still there. So frustrating and annoying. Cant even enjoy my turbo car...

Some of the exhaust parts do in fact touch the chassis of the car. The guy at the muffler shop spent a few hours on my car, started getting impatient, and being weird. I couldnt find any 1g FWD exhaust systems that bedazzled me so I had this one built with pipes and mufflers ordered from Summit. He said its hard to fit 3" piping where stock 1-3/4" piping used to run. Thats a different noise though...one that I am not concerned with.

I find it odd you have all stock internals with any type of resonance. I thought it was my other head and a shady rebuild but I think it may be my cams. I'm gonna swap in stocks just to see if it goes away. Still not sure what the problem is or what will be fixed.

 

[turboglenn]

I thought you pinpointed it to a bearing/pulley? what lead oyu to now go back to believing it's in the head? These motors are noisy as hell, you'll drive yourself nuts trying to make it silent unless it's 100% stock and even then they are noisy.

I guess i would need to hear it from a vid or something to help, because i just can't picture exactly what's going on
Best of luck though

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I thought I had it pinpointed at one time but I was wrong. It takes more than one attempt usually to properly diagnose a problem. One problem usually causes another.

This is a rattling/clanking/metal-on-metal noise. I hope its these used HK$ cams doing it.

The chirping sound that I thought was the harmonic damper going out ended up being the timing belt. It only makes the noise when its cold out or when the engine hasnt been run in a while. The belt is not knicked, fuzzed up, or otherwise outwardly defective looking. I will try and get a video up soon but I would rather not be when I post it.

 

[Maglin]

Timing belts don't chip. If they are to tight they will whine. I've never head a timing belt chirp. If it is the timing belt chirping I would replace the belt and the idler and tensioner pulley as those could chirp I guess you could call it.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Timing belts don't chip. If they are to tight they will whine. I've never head a timing belt chirp. If it is the timing belt chirping I would replace the belt and the idler and tensioner pulley as those could chirp I guess you could call it.

How do you install a timing belt too tight and still have the correct tensioner-extension? I installed the thing IAW the factory service manual and the Haynes. I actually had them both side-by-side when I was installing the belt outside. I used the low end of the torque spec for the tensioner pulley bolt.

I will check pulleys but i'm sure they're fine. I've used older ones than what I have now and they didnt make a whisper. My tensioner pulley is ONE year old and the idler belt pulley is only 23,000 ish miles young or four years old. It sounds like an old dried-up serpentine belt until it gets warm or has been run for a few minutes. I waited for the sound to go away before I drove it. I have only driven it about 25 miles since this sound came. I'm swapping out cams next weekend so we'll see what happens.

 

[Kalisko]

I have this same exact problem that has occurred ever since (Strangely) I got my oil pan on my car replaced.

My engine is a complete rebuild and ran PERFECT before this oil pan job.

Now around 2500-3200 it Resonates and vibrates bad!
If I hold the RPMs in that zone, the engine will also "Flutter" making a resonance that you're probably talking about. It acts as though it's confused on how much air/fuel ratio it's getting. I suspect it to be in my intake valvetrain due to this fact.

I have attached videos (2) to try to see if this is what you're talking about. If so hopefully someone can answer all of our headaches. This vibration/resonance has made me stow my vehicle aside for the winter afraid to drive it. It has loosened my starter bolts as well as my driver side axle carrier bearing bolts completely backed out.


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i46.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/Sheijin99/eclipsevibration.flv">

you can hear the ambience flush in and out alot, and that's the vibration. my phone is what I took this with and unfortunately that's the best I can do with sound quality.


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i46.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/Sheijin99/vibration2.flv">




This video is off-time due to the conversion I have to do. i'm still trying to figure out how to convert it to keep everything lined up. But you can hear the resonance alot more in the 1st video.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I have this same exact problem that has occurred ever since (Strangely) I got my oil pan on my car replaced.

My engine is a complete rebuild and ran PERFECT before this oil pan job.

Now around 2500-3200 it Resonates and vibrates bad!
If I hold the RPMs in that zone, the engine will also "Flutter" making a resonance that you're probably talking about. It acts as though it's confused on how much air/fuel ratio it's getting. I suspect it to be in my intake valvetrain due to this fact.

I have attached videos (2) to try to see if this is what you're talking about. If so hopefully someone can answer all of our headaches. This vibration/resonance has made me stow my vehicle aside for the winter afraid to drive it. It has loosened my starter bolts as well as my driver side axle carrier bearing bolts completely backed out.


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i46.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/Sheijin99/eclipsevibration.flv">

you can hear the ambience flush in and out alot, and that's the vibration. my phone is what I took this with and unfortunately that's the best I can do with sound quality.


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i46.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/Sheijin99/vibration2.flv">




This video is off-time due to the conversion I have to do. i'm still trying to figure out how to convert it to keep everything lined up. But you can hear the resonance alot more in the 1st video.

Theres lots of distortion in the clips. Almost sounds like the compressor blades of a jet engine or maybe a turboprop.

I thought I may have heard a similar sound in the first one before the distortion took over.

Is yours a metal-on-metal sound? That what mine is at 2600-2800 rpm and around 5500 rpm. They have different pitch and frequency sounds though. I'm still suspect on a camshaft with excessive runout or maybe the cam bearings are ruined because of these cams.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I have this same exact problem that has occurred ever since (Strangely) I got my oil pan on my car replaced.

My engine is a complete rebuild and ran PERFECT before this oil pan job.

Now around 2500-3200 it Resonates and vibrates bad!
If I hold the RPMs in that zone, the engine will also "Flutter" making a resonance that you're probably talking about. It acts as though it's confused on how much air/fuel ratio it's getting. I suspect it to be in my intake valvetrain due to this fact.

I have attached videos (2) to try to see if this is what you're talking about. If so hopefully someone can answer all of our headaches. This vibration/resonance has made me stow my vehicle aside for the winter afraid to drive it. It has loosened my starter bolts as well as my driver side axle carrier bearing bolts completely backed out.


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i46.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/Sheijin99/eclipsevibration.flv">

you can hear the ambience flush in and out alot, and that's the vibration. my phone is what I took this with and unfortunately that's the best I can do with sound quality.


<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i46.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/Sheijin99/vibration2.flv">




This video is off-time due to the conversion I have to do. i'm still trying to figure out how to convert it to keep everything lined up. But you can hear the resonance alot more in the 1st video.

Theres lots of distortion in the clips. Almost sounds like the compressor blades of a jet engine or maybe a turboprop.

I thought I may have heard a similar sound in the first one before the distortion took over.

Is yours a metal-on-metal sound? That what mine is at 2600-2800 rpm and around 5500 rpm. They have different pitch and frequency sounds though. I'm still suspect on a camshaft with excessive runout or maybe the cam bearings are ruined because of these cams.

 

[Kalisko]

Fixed it!

my issue was the intermediate shaft belt.

3 of the teeth were broke off.

New belt, no vibes!

So if anyone has these symptoms double check ## belt

-Will