turboed 420a vs factory gst

[rocker_topper]

Is which will produce more hp and torque. A factory gst vs a turboed 420a with same size turbo as gst and running the same amount of boost. Basically all variables from the 420a as close to the gst as possible. Just a thought. I know the 4g63 is a powerhouse and not so much the 420a but I have heard stories of the 420a being a monster.

 

[jpmxrider489]

The 420a can be built. But its much more cost effective to get the gst. Looks like the highest hp is 661 on the dyno challenge.

 

[Bud92gsx]

So you want to spend 2k on the motor in a 420a, when you could buy a gst for possibly 2k?

I'm having a hard time understanding why this question was asked?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

This is one of the most open-ended, ill-conceived questions I've read in months.

Bravo.

 

[Bud92gsx]

This is one of the most open-ended, ill-conceived questions I've read in months.

Bravo.

This is the least stupid question I have seen in a week..
And lately I have been a total dick, not this time.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I've really been trying to not be a dick, but some of this stuff just really asks for it.

 

[Bud92gsx]

^True story.

 

[Leonthefaded]

The stories you heard about the 420a are fact. Take advantage of the search button and see the monster machine created by DSMzero

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Ok, well speaking of dick-ishness:

OP - FWIW, Leon is about the last person on this forum you should listen to. As helpfully highlighted by that red dot and caption "Leonthefaded is on thin ice" next to his reputation.

He will protest and say this is unfair or trolling, but hes earned that for a reason, and it wasnt one thing that got him there.

 

[RadDsm]

The stories you heard about the 420a are fact. Take advantage of the search button and see the monster machine created by DSMzero

Rofl
It's tough to make a case with that point when more power has been made on a stock 4g63 short block.

 

[99RedGs]

So you want to spend 2k on the motor in a 420a, when you could buy a gst for possibly 2k?

I'm having a hard time understanding why this question was asked?

If his 420a car has a body in good condition it makes sense. A $2k GST is probably going to have many cosmetic faults as well as probably an engine with 130k+ miles on it. $2,000 into rebuilding his car (assuming the body is in good shape) will net him a car with a fresh motor in a clean body and some potential.

If you want to consider that he goes "all out" and is shooting for 1/4 mi records then he should buy a non-running 4g63 car because he is going to have to rebuild that tired motor anyways. If he is just looking for a fun DD he can accomplish that with either car.

OP- Stock gst vs NA-t on a stock block, (same turbo, boost, exhaust, etc) the NA-t will produce more because it is higher compression. The difference is the bottom end in a 4g63 is built from the factory and will handle far more boost than the stock 420a bottom end. So GST vs NA-t on a stock bottom end the GST will be able to net you much more power.

Remember, they are both fwd so at a certain point having loads of power becomes pointless if you can't put it to the ground.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Gotta have some traction to lay down the power.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

If his 420a car has a body in good condition it makes sense. A $2k GST is probably going to have many cosmetic faults as well as probably an engine with 130k+ miles on it. $2,000 into rebuilding his car (assuming the body is in good shape) will net him a car with a fresh motor in a clean body and some potential.

If you want to consider that he goes "all out" and is shooting for 1/4 mi records then he should buy a non-running 4g63 car because he is going to have to rebuild that tired motor anyways. If he is just looking for a fun DD he can accomplish that with either car.

OP- Stock gst vs NA-t on a stock block, (same turbo, boost, exhaust, etc) the NA-t will produce more because it is higher compression. The difference is the bottom end in a 4g63 is built from the factory and will handle far more boost than the stock 420a bottom end. So GST vs NA-t on a stock bottom end the GST will be able to net you much more power.

Remember, they are both fwd so at a certain point having loads of power becomes pointless if you can't put it to the ground.

Considering I was moving 65+ lbs/min on a 120k mile junkyard 6 bolt longblock I am calling BS on having to rebuild a "tired motor" as default standard operating procedure.

I had no problem putting the power down, so perhaps you are in need of a "driver mod"

As well as another BS call on weighing in favor of a 420A-Turbo conversion vs a comparable setup on a 4G63 based entirely on compression. There is far more to that equation than just proclaiming the one with a slightly greater compression ratio is going to make more power.

The cams in the 420A are designed for an NA application to start with. So no provisions to close the exhaust valve sooner like you need on a turbo motor, among other bits of significant nuance that rarely get brought up by the overzealous pro-420A folks.

And you don't build a bottom end for boost, you do it for cylinder pressure.

Cylinder pressure, and at what rod angles the critical values occur, are more directly related to timing and fueling.

To create 100% more power does not require a 100% increase in cylinder pressure, this is not a linear relationship. Especially with the way a turbocharged car develops that cylinder pressure vs. say a shot of nitrous.

15psi on a 14B is not the same as 14psi on an HX52

That 15psi on a 14B @ 10.5:1AFR and 12* peak advance is nothing like 15psi on a 14B @ 12.0:1AFR and 22* peak timing.

Please stop making things up, guys.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Ok, well speaking of dick-ishness:

OP - FWIW, Leon is about the last person on this forum you should listen to. As helpfully highlighted by that red dot and caption "Leonthefaded is on thin ice" next to his reputation.

He will protest and say this is unfair or trolling, but hes earned that for a reason, and it wasnt one thing that got him there.

FWIW - it's a bit uncalled for to single a user out, despite their reputation with an automotive 'intertoobs' forum.

As far as Turboing a 420a, it is possible and they can provide quite a fun experience. However, you're barking up a tree dominated by 4G63 owners who will claw and attack anything that goes against their preferred power-plant. While the 420a might not be the most performance driven engine, they can generate power, however, the cost effectiveness is a bit of a downward slope. So much, in fact, that buying a 4G63t powered DSM is usually cheaper.

It's all in what you decide you want to go with, however. Perhaps you simply want to do something right (which not many people do) with the 420a platform. Or perhaps you absolutely love the car, it's reliable, and you want to treat it to the world of Forced Induction. Just keep in mind - it will be somewhat costly, there are more 'knock-off' parts than actual R&D'd parts for the 420a platform, and you're going to catch a hail-storm of flack from the rest of the community who lives and breathes by the 4G63 power plant.

So make your choice, commit, and bite down. If you decide to do it, there is more than enough support and information right here on these forums. Otherwise - go get a 4G63 powered DSM.

 

[Boosted DSM 32]

I agree that with 2k your going to get a pos gst unless its a 1g then after you get the entire turbo setup for the 420a... the cams, the internals, intercooler, wideband, some way to tune and all that good stuff that you would need to turbo the 420a you already would have on the gst minus the wideband and tuner.. for the price that you would pay to get a 420a into the 13's you could run 11's on a budget 4g63 build easily dollar for dollar its way cheaper to build a 4g63 to make power then a 420a

 

[bmoha7321]

Stock 420a will handle what 7 psi? Stock 7 bolt I've thrown 22 psi at before worrying about head studs. How much would it cost to build up a 420a to be able to run 22 psi? I couldn't imagine putting a decent sized turbo on anything for 7 psi. Maybe one of those little 13bs off a Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4.

 

[importracr317]

This is one of the most open-ended, ill-conceived questions I've read in months.

Bravo.

This.

Bench racing....thread closed in 3....2.....1.....

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Stock 420a will handle what 7 psi? Stock 7 bolt I've thrown 22 psi at before worrying about head studs. How much would it cost to build up a 420a to be able to run 22 psi? I couldn't imagine putting a decent sized turbo on anything for 7 psi. Maybe one of those little 13bs off a Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4.

No engine has a "boost limit"..

Again you don't build an engine to "run xx psi boost"

That is one part of a long equation and without nailing down the other details there is very little you can do or surmise with that one bit of information.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Stock 420a will handle what 7 psi? Stock 7 bolt I've thrown 22 psi at before worrying about head studs. How much would it cost to build up a 420a to be able to run 22 psi? I couldn't imagine putting a decent sized turbo on anything for 7 psi. Maybe one of those little 13bs off a Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4.

13b's come from a 1G DSM Automatic, not the 3000GT VR4. The stock turbo from a 3000GT VR4 is a 9b. 13b's are decent upgrades for us VR4 owners, you know - and it's great knowing that the DSM community basically throws them away.

15g's on the other hand, are quite a bit different. Still small, however. My VR4 enjoys it's small 15g's.

 

[bmoha7321]

9b. Right. Tiny little thing.

 

[canada4g63]

just get the GST way easier to mod and theres is a hell of alot more parts you can buy for them

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

9b. Right. Tiny little thing.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You have no idea.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

FWIW - it's a bit uncalled for to single a user out, despite their reputation with an automotive 'intertoobs' forum.

Uncalled for? I may disagree when it comes to technical matters.

"Mean?" Arguably.

But I didn't pretend otherwise.

I do appreciate your snark though

Would it not be meaner if we didn't warn others? Thats what it is there for, and seemingly often overlooked. Just sayin.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Uncalled for? I may disagree when it comes to technical matters.

"Mean?" Arguably.

But I didn't pretend otherwise.

I do appreciate your snark though

Would it not be meaner if we didn't warn others? Thats what it is there for, and seemingly often overlooked. Just sayin.

Only the best of denizens appreciate my 'snark.'

You're good in my book.

 

[Leonthefaded]

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