TURBO TECH NEEDED FOR TD05H, options???

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

Hey guys,

I have a 1990 eagle talon 4G63 TSi AWD W5M33 turbo standard with TD05H A3 4G turbo(49178-01 41 0 on the compressor 12 blades, housing and 78-11020 on the turbine housing.

I just pulled the turbo today, went good but found a stress fracture on the exhaust manifold and the turbine housing. Need to replace them and the exhaust.

1. What's a good turbo combo that will work well for me? And where can I get it?

What I'm planning-

I'm rebuilding the hole car, engine, W5M33 trans, and fuel system, so the sky is the limit. Just kinda seeing what I got and designing right now.

Going to have 1000 cc injectors, 455 LPH pump, bigger intercooler, BOV, dual honey comb valve springs, boost controller, stage 3 evo trans upgrades, LSD rear, LSD front, welded centre diff... So I'm aiming for a street car, crank the boost up and can handle it's own on the strip, a solid 500 HP+

So this is what I need help with,

I need a exhaust manifold that will match up to a new turbine housing, and turbine wheel which will run a 25G 3" inlet compressor wheel.

For the turbine housing and wheel can I just phone up Mitsubishi and get a new one, think it's a little old for them to still be stocking it. Or order up some EVO 5 or newer turbo turbine wheel (titanium) that will fit in my TD05H, since I have to get a new turbine housing anyway.

I was doing some research and seen that the Lancer Evo 1 TD05H (Inducer = 48.3, Exducer = 68mm, nozzle cm2 = 7) but want to use a titanium turbine wheel form the EVO 5 TD05HRA from the RS, has the same size inducer 48.3 and Exducer 68mm but nad a nozzle cm2 = 10.5,

2. Would that work? Can I make that work with a new turbine housing, or is the shaft different?

3. Basically I need info and help with, want a titanium turbine from EVO or other? turbine housing, stock or other? with straight line or similar exhaust manifold and a 3" stainless exhaust piping. I haven't bought any of these items yet so all option are open.


There is no way I'm just putting the stock back in, it broke for a reason, want 500 hp +, any ideas or contacts are much appreciated, thanks, will open it up tomorrow to measure the wheels, housings and shaft.

Almost forgot, what the heck do I have here 16G?

 

[Dsmkauai]

Cracks in the turbine housing are normal and are from heat. As long as they don't go all the way thru to the outside they won't effect anything. Also I think you need to sit down and read and learn bro. The best you can get is a evo3 16g that will flow around 41lb/min and maybe make around 400ish hp. You arnt going to get 500hp out of a tdo5 based turbo, unless you have a motor pushing out 450 on its own . I suggest getting a fp race manifold on sale $175 if your sticking to the DSM flanged turbine housing. And I wouldn't waste your time trying to mix and match all the stuff your talking about. For one it won't work and 2 your still not going to make the power you want. The evo5-6 tubro' face the opposite direction and would take a lot of fab work to get to fit properly. It's either a evo3 16g or you move to a different frame turbo like a fp black or holset hx35-40. If your done with the 14b I'll take it bro! Follow the upgrade paths on this site, it's your best bet, and all the stuff you mentioned already your forgetting the most important!! You should get something to tune with like ecmlink before even thinking of upgrading anything else!

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

Ya already have the ECM, 25g compressor turbine wheel and 3" housing is $250, says 500 hp bro, want it to look stockish but pump out the power, have all winter to fix it up, also gonna mess around with fitting some titanium ball bearings in, measure and fit, that casting on the housings is crap too, gonna port and polish it, just the way I roll, I tried to get a pic of inside the turbine housing, there is a big crack where it splits off to the waste gate and turbo, can't really weld it, the heat would warp it, gotta replace it or find another option. It is a 14B, even blades, but its gonna be a 25G, definately worth messin around, gonna be a monster rawr! NOR FOR SALE

Just need some advice from somebody who's done this before

 

[Dsmkauai]

What ECM do you have exactly? What's a 25g compressor turbine wheel?? It's either a turbine wheel (exhaust side) or compressor wheel (intake side)! Anyway if you want to know if this will work, which I'm pretty sure it won't. Post your questions in the ask Justin thread, he's the turbo man on here and can answer all your questions better than anyone! Seems like you are going to spend a lot of money to only be limited by a small frame turbo. A evo3 16g will be much less hassle, easy to find and install and make great power. Bro my last set up on my eclipse was only a small 16g and almost got me into the 11's and making 360ish! Its a lot more about tuning and having a setup that compliments eachother than billet or titanium parts!

 

[synthetek]

also gonna mess around with fitting some titanium ball bearings

EVO I - IIIs had 16gs and they were not titanium, This is going to go about as far as your thread about the rear diff. Do some reading on upgrade paths and set some goals for your build and do some maintenance. You have already said that your car wasn't running correctly after being worked by a dealership. Before moding your car you need to at least get all the maintenance done and have everything running good.

Tech Guide - DSMtuners

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

No I am right, you can buy a 25G compressor wheel(intake side) with a 3" inlet housing instead of the "14B" 1 3/4" inlet, and just use the same internals, makes a big difference. If you never rebuilt a turbo before you have no idea what your talking about so please keep your opinions to yourself, you'll never have a 9 second car letting other people do your work. Syn, did you even see the screen shot I posted above of the EVO turbo specs from 4Gtuners, I said EVO 5 turbine, not EVO 3. They use TD05H housings genius. Maintenance, yes I paid the dealership to do a head gasket and they screwed it up, correction, charge me for a head gasket and just robbed parts from my car chop shop style. Don't you have somebody else to nag, you sound like my old lady. Didn't know this was dsmstockers, custom means made to work. Now when I fix something, I do everything, port and polish, springs, lifters, turbo, exhaust manifold... why would I do it twice.

I took off the down pipe (turbo to exhaust) off, found 3 big pressure cracks letting air through my waste gate which prevents the turbo from spooling up at full pressure, leaks through waste gate. Good thing is my internals are fine, turbo never really had to work. As I already said I need a new turbine housing (exhaust side) and turbine that will push a 25G compressor (intake side), not just the stock. I've welded cast heads before, and ported and polished but I'm pretty sure the metal will expand at a different rate if I weld the turbo housing. Also found my slow oil leak making a mess of everything, turbo inlet oil line top crush washer was not sealing 100%.

Look, would of never know if I didn't take it apart.

I need advice, not trash talk. I can figure it out by myself but a heads up is much appreciated. I checked out the turbo threads and kits form this site, those 16, 18 and 20 g mitsubishi turbos are just stock turbos with different wheels and housings. Probably not ported and polished for that price. How come they don't sell the turbo parts. Never mind I'll do it myself.

Oh, also I'm an industrial electrician, don't think my ECM is a problem

 

[TurboAnything]

Troll. /\

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Agreed. You need more to swap a 25g wheel and compressor housing to be able to convert your 14b. If I was running a 25g I'd at least run a tdo6 turbine to be able to take full advantage of that wheel. The O5h turbine is best at 25 psi and below.

 

[lasthope05]

The guy is too thick headed to actually listen to us. His rear diff thread was a testament to that before it got deleted.

Let the man do what he wants and look like an idiot when he comes back with why his car won't work.

25g compressor wheel on a td05 6cm turbine? Surge much? Evo 5 turbine wheel? good luck with that one. Titanium ball bearings in a journal bearing chra? Are you just making shit up thinking itll work?

Listen to the links people provide and follow the standard upgrade paths. You might have some knowledge in electrical work but, you don't know dick about our cars. So when we talk, you should listen.

 

[BurrowZ]

Idk why anyone here is even helping you. You're clearly not ready to listen to anybody and you keep saying you're right when people tell you otherwise.

LINK PLEASE to where you can convert your 14b to a 25G. We all want to see this.

I can tell you that AFAIK you can only convert your 14b to a small 16G with just the compressor wheel and housing. If I were you, I'd keep that stock turbo on the car for the time being and just put a 7cm housing from the classifieds on it. Then you can do some real research and get a real turbo for your future goals.

By the way, your turbo is a stock turbo. Synthetek was right in your last thread. I'm surprised he was even nice enough to help you with this mess of a failure thread.

Oh and you're an "industrial electrician," not a DSM expert. We have much more experience with these cars than you so you should really consider coming down to earth and taking good advice.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I can tell you that AFAIK you can only convert your 14b to a small 16G with just the compressor wheel and housing.

You can't convert a 14b to anything else without machining the center housing for the larger exducer.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

You can't convert a 14b to anything else without machining the center housing for the larger exducer.

Pretty sure he knows that. That's why he said wheel and housing.

 

[BurrowZ]

You need the 16g backing plate, which comes in a rebuild kit, but I read that for a small 16g you don't need to machine the CHRA? For a 14b to s16g conversion. I don't want to spread any misinformation here so if I'm wrong about that I apologize.

 

[Broke4speed]

Trolls this good rarely come around, we should enjoy it.

 

[JusMX141]

I'm with others- this thread seems rather troll-like.

Don't come here and mock our community then continue asking for help. I'll answer the two key questions here then if this thread continues off-topic it will be closed.

I was doing some research and seen that the Lancer Evo 1 TD05H (Inducer = 48.3, Exducer = 68mm, nozzle cm2 = 7) but want to use a titanium turbine wheel form the EVO 5 TD05HRA from the RS, has the same size inducer 48.3 and Exducer 68mm but nad a nozzle cm2 = 10.5,

2. Would that work? Can I make that work with a new turbine housing, or is the shaft different?

No. Evo V turbos are reverse-rotation. That "R" in the part number means something.

Almost forgot, what the heck do I have here 16G?

You have a well-used stock 14B. No parts from a 14B will work with a 25G compressor wheel.

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

Thanks, reverse rotation, hello use evo housing. And I've had my car for 8 years, think I have enough experience.

Mitsubishi 3" Turbo Anti-Surge Compressor Housing & Whee TD05H TD06 25G 500HP

Since you guys are being pudge pounders, you can find the link yourself, did any of you ever rebuild a turbo or just wip out your credit card, I'll just post a video in spring, that should shut up the na sayers, then you can send me your turbo, and I can upgrade it, or not, its a TD05H A3 4G, which is a VR4, same as the EVO 1 internals, different housings, if you change both sides at the same time you can make it forward or reverse, have to put in new bigger piping anyway.

The bigger housing makes room for the bigger compressor - turbine, with same internals, yes I have to upgrade to super back but thats only $100

The difference from a inconnel steel and a titanium, is the iconnel will get you down a 1/4 mile drag strip just fine, a titanium will do it all day, everyday. I could just run the 14B turbine side, and have the 25G compressor side but would take a long time to spool up, and would probably burn out the turbine. Gonna switch to 16G or bigger turbine anyway, may as well have a good one. And my differential thread was deleted because I've got it all figured out, need the space to post new photos. Obviously the guys who actually know what their doing must be busy.

Not one of you has answered either of my questions

 

[agentorange313]

Thanks, reverse rotation, hello use evo housing.

You will also need a reverse rotation (evo style, and a compressor housing to match) 25g wheel to compliment the TD05HR turbine wheel.

I still think the td05H wheel, whether its the DSM style or Evo reverse, is too small of a turbine for the 25g compressor.

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

I was reading, the EVO 5 TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T is a good one, has RS titanium alloy turbine. Hits peak torque around 3500 rpm, they downgrade the compressor wheel for the EVO 6, but the turbine is the same.

My concern is, obviously running a 25G is going to put a lot of stress on the turbine, I would rather use the titanium 16G than a bigger 18G or 20G inconnel steel. So if I run the EVO 5 RS TD05HRA 16G6 turbine and housing, would I have to look for a 25G EVO 5 compressor wheel too, does that turbine run in reverse?

 

[lasthope05]

Good luck using a reverse rotation turbine wheel with a standard clockwise flow compressor of the 25g. What are you going to do, run your motor on vacuum?

16g uses the same turbine wheel as a 14b. What part if td05 don't you get?

We've rebuilt turbos. Even Justin(jusMX141) the forum turbo guy replied to you. There is a difference between assembling a turbo and a person rebuilding/blueprinting turbos. Anybody can slap parts together.

 

[agentorange313]

I was reading, the EVO 5 TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T is a good one, has RS titanium alloy turbine. Hits peak torque around 3500 rpm, they downgrade the compressor wheel for the EVO 6, but the turbine is the same.

My concern is, obviously running a 25G is going to put a lot of stress on the turbine, I would rather use the titanium 16G than a bigger 18G or 20G inconnel steel. So if I run the EVO 5 RS TD05HRA 16G6 turbine and housing, would I have to look for a 25G EVO 5 compressor wheel too, does that turbine run in reverse?

I don't think there is a evo 5 25g wheel, but there are website and companies that sell 25g wheels in reverse for the evo platform. I don't know what vehicles came with the 25g wheel, but I am almost positive the evo5 did not come with it. If you run a reverse rotation turbine, you need to find a compressor creates positive pressure by rotation the the same direction, so yes you need a 25g for the evo platform.

Why are you dead set on this td05hr titanium shaft? I get titanium is much stronger, but you arent helping anything by sticking with such a small turbine wheel. I rather just run a TD06SL2 evo style or a TD06h if they make them for the evo platform. Its a better suited turbine wheel for that size compressor.

 

[lasthope05]

I don't think there is a evo 5 25g wheel, but there are website and companies that sell 25g wheels in reverse for the evo platform. I don't know what vehicles came with the 25g wheel, but I am almost positive the evo5 did not come with it. If you run a reverse rotation turbine, you need to find a compressor creates positive pressure by rotation the the same direction, so yes you need a 25g for the evo platform.

Why are you dead set on this td05hr titanium shaft? I get titanium is much stronger, but you arent helping anything by sticking with such a small turbine wheel. I rather just run a TD06SL2 evo style or a TD06h if they make them for the evo platform. Its a better suited turbine wheel for that size compressor.

I seriously think the guy is either trolling or really doesn't know as much as he think he does. He keeps thinking 14b and 16g wheels are different, reverse flow or not, and that it would take longer to spool with smaller turbine wheels vs the td06/td06sl2.

He is trying to preach to us about our lack of understanding of turbos and how to rebuild them but continues to show us his incompetence and total lack of basic turbo knowledge of flow direction, turbine sizing..etc.

OP, my advice to you is leave the custom turbos to someone else and buy a new one from forced performance.

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

"The difference from a inconnel steel and a titanium, is the iconnel will get you down a 1/4 mile drag strip just fine, a titanium will do it all day, everyday. I could just run the 14B turbine side, and have the 25G compressor side but would take a long time to spool up, and would probably burn out the turbine. Gonna switch to 16G or bigger turbine anyway, may as well have a good one. And my differential thread was deleted because I've got it all figured out, need the space to post new photos. Obviously the guys who actually know what their doing must be busy."

You're not reading things right or trying really hard to be a troll. A 25G with a "14b turbines side" would spool pretty quick but die up top. The compressor wheel doesn't have as much affect on spool as the turbine wheel. Just because you've had your car for 8 years means nothing.

We have the DSM communities best and fastest on this site (Justin being one of the best, if not the best turbo guy here). You'd be better off reading then just thinking of knowing everything right out of the box.

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

you'll never have a 9 second car letting other people do your work

Maintenance, yes I paid the dealership to do a head gasket and they screwed it up, correction, charge me for a head gasket and just robbed parts from my car chop shop style.

Tool

I can figure it out by myself

Doubtful

I checked out the turbo threads and kits form this site, those 16, 18 and 20 g mitsubishi turbos are just stock turbos with different wheels and housings.

Tool

Never mind I'll do it myself.

Doubtful

 

[May1989TalonTSiAWDst]

If justin could step in that'd be sweet. So I pretty much figured it out. Gonna switch the compressor(25G) and turbine(16G titanium RS) and housings from TD05H to TD05HR RS , then they both run in reverse witch creates positive boost. The HR kicks out from the engine, instead of the H in, so might have to run a low profile fan with the stock exhuast manifold, or move the rad in front and build a custom bumper with a bigger intercooler with manifold headers. I built a custom 3/16' plate steel gas tank skid plate for the jeep TJ, was thinking of making a stainless steel pipe guard/light bar that protects the intercooler, and cover the rest the rest of the bumper with aluminium plate and paint her all black. Have an aluminium plate that I can just unbolt that covers the intercooler from rocks on the highway.

All I have to figure out now is: my TD05H centre section is 8 cm diameter, TD05HR RS is ?. The compressor fan height for the HR is 33 mm, haven't pulled mine yet but will find out if its 33 mm ?

Some of those bolts are nasty and the turbine housing is totally welded on after 24 years, letting it soak for a bit.

Maybe I will just run the 20G inconel TD05H turbine, titanium is so sick though.

So when I'm running 9's what cha gonna say then? I run 13 sec cars without turbo

 

[goodhart]

What you really need is a 6266. But make sure you keep your stock injectors so it won't affect your mileage. A SAFC should be good enough to tune with. I would consider running square intercooler piping as well, it flows more than round piping.