Resolved Turbo choice

[SNAKE_15]

I currently have a new Fp Black jb turbo that I'm planning to install on my tsi, but I'm having doubts if this turbo will perform well for my setup. I'm sending my motor (which will be standard bored) in so they can install my supertech valves, valve stem seals, bronze valve guides, and my kiggley springs and retainers. On top of that they're installing weisco rods and pistons wich are a 8:5 compression ratio. With the appropriate fuel mods of course which includes a walbro 255 and 1200cc injectors, I'm planning to shoot for 500hp or at least close within range and having a daily street car. Is the black turbo really terrible with spool time? What other turbo will work with my setup that I won't be maxing out with 500hp or will I be pleased with the black?

 

[CrackedDSM]

Oh wow. That thing would spool amazing on a 2.4 then! Good stuff.

 

[SNAKE_15]

Sounds like the 82 is a blast on the street. Unfortunately, I cant afford the 82 bb turbo and hang with the big boys. As of now, I'm stuck between the black, red, and green. I wanna have fun on the streets and I don't care too much putting the most hp on the dyno. As long as I have a turbo easily capable of hitting 500 or at least 450 with good spool I'm happy.

 

[white92talontsi]

We've made 768whp on the Evo Black at 42 psi and had that 42 psi by 4200. The DSM Black probably won't perform as well though, Even then once you start pushing the BB Blacks past 38 psi they don't live long.

Me? I will stick with the HX40 JusMX141 built. 3586 power potential and half the price, you honestly can't find a better deal out there.

 

[JusMX141]

We've made 768whp on the Evo Black at 42 psi and had that 42 psi by 4200. The DSM Black probably won't perform as well though

Damn that's impressive. I wish there was an easy, affordable way to adapt twin-scroll technology to our antiques....the DSM Black definitely can't touch those numbers.

 

[white92talontsi]

Damn that's impressive. I wish there was an easy, affordable way to adapt twin-scroll technology to our antiques....the DSM Black definitely can't touch those numbers.

That particular FP black was actually on an open housing. Just happens it was on a 10.5:1 2.4 LR.
It would be nice if there was an affordable option but sadly there just isn't. IMHO opinion though there are better turbos out there without breaking the bank.

 

[SNAKE_15]

I think I might choose the red and call it a day. I realized the black will be too much lag for me and I won't enjoy driving the car.

 

[mavericktsi83]

What makes that the best option to reach 500hp, with there being several other really good options that would also work? Just curious.

Like I stated, it’s just my opinion. But I have based my comment on experience and through research over the years. For the street, I prefer the Turbonetics T3 manifold (or copy) because it works well for daily driver application (and w/the HY in particular). The manifold is thick cast (crack resistant) holds in heat well (better spool), places the turbo close to the block (room for proper fans), flows better than the FP and OEM type manifolds and of course allows for running a T3 turbine housing—providing the user with a plethora of high-performance housing options now and in the future, to optimize their setup/goal (OP is concerned with spool/500hp afterall). The wastegate can be setup mult. ways too with this combo. This manifold is readily available and is proven. Additionally, considering the turbo in question will be for a “500 hp” target “daily driver” it is important to look at the constrains in play here while bearing in mind the likelihood the compressor and hotside is up to the task to hit that number while minimizing lag, and do it from what’s available at the pump, reliably, for a dd. The Holset HY35 has a 60lb/min compressor combined with a very well matched hotside capable of performing on a pumpgas in terms of spool, flow and having a thrust system suited for a 500hp dd. With the HY (and Tnetics mani.), users have been reporting full-spool around 4200rpm (w/ big cams&smim) on a 2.0l with dyno#s well into the 500whp range on pump gas and have run high-10s @ 130+ mph while being full weight. Enough said. For even better street manners I would set it up with an Evo III IM and GSCs1 cams.

I do really see this as the best combination considering what the OP is after and because this manifold and turbo offers the utmost reliability and performance in getting there. This is always is a balancing act and one should do a lot of research before buying anything. That brings me to my next point. The elephant in the room is always: cost and maintaining a “500hp daily driver”. The other nice thing about this combo is the price and the money saved in this area can be realistically put towards the drivetrain for just one example, without sacrificing performance in doing so. Hope this explains my initial comment and good luck to the OP in reaching your goal.

 

[SNAKE_15]

What makes that the best option to reach 500hp, with there being several other really good options that would also work? Just curious.

Hey OP - what fuel are you planning to run? Hopefully not our sh**ty CA 91 octane. You going E85? What cams are you planning to use? That might be important when choosing a turbo too. Are you planning to try and pass the sniffer test? Do you have to remain stock appearing for the visual emissions testing.

I don't know that the FP Black wouldn't get you there. Nobody seems to be answering your questions, just tossing out suggestions on other turbos they like. You should talk to FP before you make a decision.

A lot to consider here. 500hp in a street driven DSM in CA is not always as simple (or as cheap) as some people think.

For some reason I missed this particular post. I'm running kelfords 272 and unfortunately regular premium gas. We don't have E-85 in Bakersfield so it would be tedious taking a drive to the nearest E-85 station weekly. I don't plan on passing smog clean anymore. I'm gonna give fp a call. I already have the black so its a little harder changing setups since I need to sell this one now.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

For some reason I missed this particular post. I'm running kelfords 272 and unfortunately regular premium gas. We don't have E-85 in Bakersfield so it would be tedious taking a drive to the nearest E-85 station weekly. I don't plan on passing smog clean anymore. I'm gonna give fp a call. I already have the black so its a little harder changing setups since I need to sell this one now.

There's lots of 90's cummins truck up there I'm sure you could find an HX or HY fairly easily.
If you want racegas: http://www.yellowpages.com/bakersfield-ca/vp-race-fuel

 

[Ludachris]

For some reason I missed this particular post. I'm running kelfords 272 and unfortunately regular premium gas. We don't have E-85 in Bakersfield so it would be tedious taking a drive to the nearest E-85 station weekly. I don't plan on passing smog clean anymore. I'm gonna give fp a call. I already have the black so its a little harder changing setups since I need to sell this one now.

You're going to need either some higher octane, meth injection, race gas, or E85 to get close to your goal. The 91 octane piss we have out here is severely limiting. You won't be able to turn the boost up much, and if you do you better be logging.

 

[donniekak]

You're going to need either some higher octane, meth injection, race gas, or E85 to get close to your goal. The 91 octane piss we have out here is severely limiting. You won't be able to turn the boost up much, and if you do you better be logging.

My 25 psi 93 octane tune that worked fine across most of the country would knock on Arizona 91(same as California) gas, even with 5 less degrees of timing.

 

[Ludachris]

My 25 psi 93 octane tune that worked fine across most of the country would knock on Arizona 91(same as California) gas, even with 5 less degrees of timing.

Exactly. I have a tough time running over 22 lbs of boost out here. And you're going to need more than that to hit 500hp obviously. Seems like a pipe dream if you plan to run 91 octane. Might as well stick with an Evo3 16g unless you're planning to run E85, meth injection, or race gas on a bigger turbo here in Cali.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

Exactly. I have a tough time running over 22 lbs of boost out here. And you're going to need more than that to hit 500hp obviously. Seems like a pipe dream if you plan to run 91 octane. Might as well stick with an Evo3 16g unless you're planning to run E85, meth injection, or race gas on a bigger turbo here in Cali.

Same experience as him. 22-24 MAX safely but it's quite a bit cooler down here. You'll need a massive turbo like Chris said if you want to make that kind of power on 91 + all the supporting mods. Go do some research on good Meth injection kits and get one from one of our supporting vendors. That's your best compromise and will allow you to reach your goal on 91. Plus considering how bloody hot it is out there, some chemical intercooling sounds like a great idea. I say HX-35 + Meth injection. There's a reason so many people love those turbos and want to run one. I guarantee that Holset DSMs are far and few between here considering how many DSMs we have in Cali anyways. I've only ever come across 2. One near me, and one sitting in the garage at Road Race Engineering.

 

[Ludachris]

Same experience as him. 22-24 MAX safely but it's quite a bit cooler down here. You'll need a massive turbo like Chris said if you want to make that kind of power on 91 + all the supporting mods. Go do some research on good Meth injection kits and get one from one of our supporting vendors. That's your best compromise and will allow you to reach your goal on 91. Plus considering how bloody hot it is out there, some chemical intercooling sounds like a great idea. I say HX-35 + Meth injection. There's a reason so many people love those turbos and want to run one. I guarantee that Holset DSMs are far and few between here considering how many DSMs we have in Cali anyways. I've only ever come across 2. One near me, and one sitting in the garage at Road Race Engineering.

He won't need a massive turbo to hit that goal, he'll just need more boost than you can run safely on 91 octane to get there - which will be the case with any turbo he uses. He can achieve his goals with the FP Black that he has. The question is whether the car will be fun to drive in the lower boost settings that he'll be stuck running on 91 octane with the spool of a non-bb turbo. And whether or not it's worth the effort and financial trade-off trying to sell the Black to get something else.

 

[94laserawd]

I have a dsm black on a fp manifold. Made 615whp and 600wtq on e85 and 36 psi.

For a bolt on turbo it is a great option. I hit 36 psi by 4900 rpm. Im on a stock long block, so 7.8:1 compression

 

[9412tsi]

I have a dsm black on a fp manifold. Made 615whp and 600wtq on e85 and 36 psi.

For a bolt on turbo it is a great option. I hit 36 psi by 4900 rpm. Im on a stock long block, so 7.8:1 compression

Im a little late but im assuming you at least have some head studs? I got a mildly built long block that im throwing in instead of learning how to tune on my fully built engine. this long block has regular arp's and composite hg.i was planning on running 25psi max, but would be fun to try and max this turbo out on a mild built long block.

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Standard ARPs and OEM/FelPro composite HG should hold in your case - there are many positive experiences from composite HGs past 500HP, and some have used the basic ARP studs past their "rating". If you lift the head from a bad tune, you'll need to replace things obviously.

 

[9412tsi]

thanks for the reply, I think I will start slow and eventualy go for 30-33psi on this black! i'll be happy if I can find some cheap used hks 272's to throw in.i got kelford 272's for my built engine.

 

[94laserawd]

Yes I'm on arp's and a composite gasket. be careful turning the boost up, I was having major back pressure problems in the exhaust manifold and my IAT's were skyrocketing. I turned the boost back down to 30psi waiting on a bigger intercooler and a Intake manifold, as well as switching to open dump.

 

[9412tsi]

very cool to hear actual feedback.i already have a jmf race IM and 10.5"x4" race ets IC.planning on the punishment racing o2 open dump.