Turbo choice

[james2042]

Currently running an evolll 16g and around 350 whp. I am looking for 450+ on 93 pump gas. Should I use my Turbonetics 60-1 external gated ?
Or have my 16g upgraded to a 20g?
Thanks

 

[bigdnno98]

You won't make 450 on pump on either turbo. You're going yo need something like a GTX3076r or FP Red for those kind of numbers

 

[JusMX141]

You won't make 450 on pump on either turbo. You're going yo need something like a GTX3076r or FP Red for those kind of numbers

^ ....is completely unaware that the old-school DSM Red which has been around for 15 years used a 60-1 compressor, apparently.

I'd like to know how the T04S 60-1 wheel, capable of +/- 60lb/min of airflow, will not make 450 on pump gas.

 

[bigdnno98]

The infamous 60-1 is an excellent turbo and MANY people have had tremendous success with it. This is tried and true turbocharger proven to support high power on many displacement 4 cylinder engines.
Compressor Specifications

60-1 compressor wheel with a max flow rate of 61 lb/min.
0.70 a/r compressor housing.
Efficient to 520 whp.
Turbine Specifications

Stage 3 or Stage 5 turbine wheel available.
0.48, 0.63, or 0.82 a/r turbine housing available.
4 bolt standard turbine discharge.
CHRA Specifications

360 degree thrust bearing.
Oil cooled and lubricated center section.
For additional information and/or related questions, feel free to contact us.
(866) Full-Race

The all new FP RED™ for DSM's has finally been updated to match the FP RED™ specifications of our Evo 9 & 10 turbos. The FP RED™ for DSM features our 76HTA™ billet compressor wheel along with an 84mm Flow Advancement Port compressor cover. The 76HTA™ has a flow rating of 60lb/min and is capable of producing upwards of 600hp. This journal bearing turbo is mated to an 8cm turbine housing that can be configured to run with an internal wastegate or external wastegate.

An HTA76 wheel is nothing like a 60-1 wheel. I'm very familiar with Turbos. Thanks.

 

[Phantom DSM]

The infamous 60-1 is an excellent turbo and MANY people have had tremendous success with it. This is tried and true turbocharger proven to support high power on many displacement 4 cylinder engines.
Compressor Specifications

60-1 compressor wheel with a max flow rate of 61 lb/min.
0.70 a/r compressor housing.
Efficient to 520 whp.
Turbine Specifications

Stage 3 or Stage 5 turbine wheel available.
0.48, 0.63, or 0.82 a/r turbine housing available.
4 bolt standard turbine discharge.
CHRA Specifications

360 degree thrust bearing.
Oil cooled and lubricated center section.
For additional information and/or related questions, feel free to contact us.
(866) Full-Race

The all new FP RED™ for DSM's has finally been updated to match the FP RED™ specifications of our Evo 9 & 10 turbos. The FP RED™ for DSM features our 76HTA™ billet compressor wheel along with an 84mm Flow Advancement Port compressor cover. The 76HTA™ has a flow rating of 60lb/min and is capable of producing upwards of 600hp. This journal bearing turbo is mated to an 8cm turbine housing that can be configured to run with an internal wastegate or external wastegate.

An HTA76 wheel is nothing like a 60-1 wheel. I'm very familiar with Turbos. Thanks.

WTF Are you contradicting your previous post?
So a 60-1 can get you 61lb/min but cannot get him to 450hp.
The FP red is identical in flow. Whats your point??

 

[bigdnno98]

Point is 60-1 is a cast wheel that under performs. It barely makes 550 maxed out on e85. An old school red has proven to put down 600hp. Show me a dyno sheet of a 60-1 putting down 450 on pump gas and I'll be very surprised. I don't care that Garrett rates it at 61lb.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Point is 60-1 is a cast wheel that under performs. It barely makes 550 maxed out on e85. An old school red has proven to put down 600hp. Show me a dyno sheet of a 60-1 putting down 450 on pump gas and I'll be very surprised. I don't care that Garrett rates it at 61lb.

Dude its a Turbonetics that he has, not Garrett.
No offense to the OP but the CHRA of those turbos has proven unreliable and full boost around 5.5k.

I will agree with you though that old school RED will have a more consistent and reliable chance to hit 450hp efficiently.

 

[bigdnno98]

Ok my bad. I don't know anything about turbonetics turbos. I thought he was talking about the old Garrett 60-1.

I still say though that the old school FP red for stock location and the gtx3076r for t3 footprint will be the best for 450hp on pump gas.

 

[JusMX141]

Point is 60-1 is a cast wheel that under performs. It barely makes 550 maxed out on e85. An old school red has proven to put down 600hp.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Do you have ANY IDEA what compressor wheel a true old-school Red uses? Take a wild guess.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Garrett T04S 60-1.

...although the current reproduction "old-school Red" that FP now offers uses a 61/82mm GT35R compressor; apparently they had some leftovers from all the 35R turbos they've upgraded over the years.


So the turbo you're telling him to use because of results from the past where it's "proven to put down 600hp" has the same compressor wheel as the turbo he already has. Apparently you're not as familiar with DSM turbos as you think you are, and only mediocre at copying/pasting internet information as well.

I'm very familiar with Evo Turbos. Thanks.

Thaaaat's better.

 

[bigdnno98]

I've never seen FP offer an FP Red with a cast Garrett wheel. I've only seen them offer HTA wheels in "FP Red" turbos. I suppose I could be wrong as you're right I've been in the EVO world not necessarily DSM world but I do a lot of business with FP and have never seen them put a 60-1 cast wheel in any green/red/black offering.

So that means I'm obviously not telling him to get a turbo with the same wheel. This is the turbo I'm saying is a way better turbo than any 60-1 wheeled offering from anyone

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP RED for DSM

 

[JusMX141]

I've never seen FP offer an FP Red with a cast Garrett wheel. I've only seen them offer HTA wheels in "FP Red" turbos. I suppose I could be wrong as you're right I've been in the EVO world not necessarily DSM world but I do a lot of business with FP and have never seen them put a 60-1 cast wheel in any green/red/black offering.

I'm guessing your business with FP was all done after 2007/2008 when the HTA lineup was introduced. Wonder what FP used in their performance lineup in the old-school days, long before they all the fancy HTA billet tech came about?

Here's the newest-release Old-School Red...using a cast Garrett GT35R wheel. This turbo is still available.

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So that means I'm obviously not telling him to get a turbo with the same wheel. This is the turbo I'm saying is a way better turbo than any 60-1 wheeled offering from anyone

You mention that he use a Red. I stated that the old-school Red DID use a 60-1 compressor. You reinforced that the old-school Red is capable of over 600whp, which it is...I serviced one of the turbos which did just that.

Long story short, a 60-1 DSM Red has made over 600whp on E85 and should easily make 450whp on pump gas depending on tune and intercooler efficiency. Clearly I'm not the confused one here.

 

[bigdnno98]

Yes since 2008. I'd say 5 years and dozens of turbos bought/rebuilt is extensive. Are you arguing the fact that the HTA Red is superior to the 60-1 you keep referring to or are you just set on displaying how far your DSM experience goes back because that's irrelevant to the OPs question.

 

[JusMX141]

Are you arguing the fact that the HTA Red is superior to the 60-1 you keep referring to or are you just set on displaying how far your DSM experience goes back because that's irrelevant to the OPs question.

Not sure on that one...I've yet to personally witness a HTA Red make over 600whp like the Old-School Red has, but I'm sure it's been done.

I suppose my point would be while the HTA Red is likely more-efficient across the board, why spend $1300 when you already have a turbo capable of your horsepower goal in your possession?

 

[bigdnno98]

I sort of agree with you here but personally I hate lag. I'm not sure how the OP feels about lag but that 60-1 will be pretty leggy compared to more modern wheels such as an HTA or GTX. I guess if he doesn't mind an extra 400-500 rpms in spool that'll def give him more money to buy more supporting mods.

Not sure on that one...I've yet to personally witness a HTA Red make over 600whp like the Old-School Red has, but I'm sure it's been done.

I suppose my point would be while the HTA Red is likely more-efficient across the board, why spend $1300 when you already have a turbo capable of your horsepower goal in your possession?

I do applaud your turbo knowledge though. It is quite vast and I did learn something from you so thanks for that.

 

[DogWhistle]

Results speak for themselves. We were running a 60-1, external gate @ 22psi on E85 on the dyno at DB for an initial tune. The 2.3 stroker put out 468 corrected hp (Dyno graph is on our photos). It didn't begin to touch the turbo's potential.

As the experienced members here know, you can never just pick out one component and say "I'm gonna make 500 horse". It is primarily a combination of fuel flow, turbo and cam.

OP: Your 850cc injectors are undersized, and factory cams won't wake that stroker up at the higher rpms.

Go ahead and get the 60-1. You can use the very one we had for that dyno run:
Garrett 60-1 with PTE DSM hotside! - DSM Classifieds

Just be prepared to up your injector size, upsize and rewire your fuel pump, and be thinking about bigger cams and springs.

Go for it! 500hp makes you smile every time you punch it!

P.S. There was no noticeable lag, even through a huge fmic.

 

[JusMX141]

The op doesn't mention he's using a 2.3.

Thank god for folks who actually fill out their profile.

Engine Internals:
2.3 stroker 6 bolt swap Arp studs

 

[CrackedDSM]

Good God dude...does no one simply agree to disagree anymore?

 

[Seamus]

Jeez me turbo expert is crazy. The t-netics 60-1 will probably make more power on pump than FP bolt on 60-1 due to the higher flowing exhaust configuration. And you'd think all his cutting pasting would have led to the discovery of what a red used to be.

 

[james2042]

I forgot to follow my post and just found all the replies. I actually sold the 60-1 and bought an hx35 . I will be upgrading my 850's to 1200's and will be getting some kelford cams. Thanks for all the input.