Resolved Turbo choice

[SNAKE_15]

I currently have a new Fp Black jb turbo that I'm planning to install on my tsi, but I'm having doubts if this turbo will perform well for my setup. I'm sending my motor (which will be standard bored) in so they can install my supertech valves, valve stem seals, bronze valve guides, and my kiggley springs and retainers. On top of that they're installing weisco rods and pistons wich are a 8:5 compression ratio. With the appropriate fuel mods of course which includes a walbro 255 and 1200cc injectors, I'm planning to shoot for 500hp or at least close within range and having a daily street car. Is the black turbo really terrible with spool time? What other turbo will work with my setup that I won't be maxing out with 500hp or will I be pleased with the black?

 

[Victor1]

If you could change slightly do a holset build youll love it!

 

[Malcalmstunt]

^+1 to the howler build. But what are your goals?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

I'm planning to shoot for 500hp or at least close within range and having a daily street car.

^+1 to the howler build. But what are your goals?

 

[Malcalmstunt]

Sorry I misread that section of your post. I would definitely go with an hx35 setup with that goal!

 

[SNAKE_15]

^+1 to the howler build. But what are your goals?

Trying to have a daily driver 500hp or at least something close to that hp.

 

[Victor1]

Holset easily will see 500hp and itll be a daily !

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

HX-35 is your best option honestly. If you plan on running ethanol methanol or alcohol based fuels, keep in mind this will wear your guides twice as fast. Also with the valve guides, the expansion rates of the metals require different tolerances with the valves and in the head to allow for expansion. Just some things to keep in mind.

 

[white92talontsi]

Billet HX40 here. Absolutely love it.

 

[canada4g63]

HX 35 would be fine for 500whp

 

[SNAKE_15]

Seems a lot of people recommend holset turbos. What's the spool like and how reliable are they for you guys? I was planning on doing something different and going with Fp. Can anybody give input on how a Fp black or Red runs?

 

[Ludachris]

I was planning on doing something different and going with Fp

I remember when people were doing something different and NOT going with FP.

You can't go wrong with Forced Performance - they have been the benchmark for DSM turbos for many years. They're really the only turbo company that makes turbos specifically for our cars and keeps coming out with new options, doing the R&D and testing on their products, which is why they cost more than options like the Holset that were simply adapted to our platform. Check out the FP30 turbine housing

They're actually members in this forum too, answering questions and helping people here for over a decade. I don't know that I've ever seen a representative from Holset (or any other turbo company) involved in our community. And if they were here, it wasn't for very long. There's something to be said for that.

I would give FP a call to ask them their thoughts on which turbo will be best for you. I imagine you CAN hit your goal with the Black but being journal bearing, the spool might not be fun for a daily driver. You might want something BB. Hell, I'd say forget about the shiny HP number and just go with a 68HTA and get close with even better spool than anything else out there.

Or call up Holset and ask them what they think

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/faster-spool-than-a-holset.361797/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-turbos-faq.362444/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-turbos-results-only-complete-installed-systems.313476/
^Has all kinds of results you'll like those

 

[mavericktsi83]

Trying to have a daily driver 500hp or at least something close to that hp.

IMO the best setup for that criteria is the Holset HY35 turbo combined with the Turbonetics T3 manifold (or copy). This combo offers great response and and would meet your goal. Not to mention it's really durable and not too bad price wise.

 

[Ludachris]

IMO the best setup for that criteria is the Holset HY35 turbo combined with the Turbonetics T3 manifold (or copy). This combo offers great response and and would meet your goal. Not to mention it's really durable and not too bad price wise.

What makes that the best option to reach 500hp, with there being several other really good options that would also work? Just curious.

Hey OP - what fuel are you planning to run? Hopefully not our shitty CA 91 octane. You going E85? What cams are you planning to use? That might be important when choosing a turbo too. Are you planning to try and pass the sniffer test? Do you have to remain stock appearing for the visual emissions testing.

I don't know that the FP Black wouldn't get you there. Nobody seems to be answering your questions, just tossing out suggestions on other turbos they like. You should talk to FP before you make a decision.

A lot to consider here. 500hp in a street driven DSM in CA is not always as simple (or as cheap) as some people think.

 

[SNAKE_15]

Hell, I'd say forget about the shiny HP number and just go with a 68HTA and get close with even better spool than anything else out there.

Or call up Holset and ask them what they think

I was eye balling the 68HTA too. How much hp can those handle with the supporting mods?

IMO the best setup for that criteria is the Holset HY35 turbo combined with the Turbonetics T3 manifold (or copy). This combo offers great response and and would meet your goal. Not to mention it's really durable and not too bad price wise.

Im really want to stick with my Fp manifold that I have already. Ill check how much they go for and go on from there.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

This shows what different Holsets will do and how they spool and such:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-turbos-results-only-complete-installed-systems.313476/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-turbos-faq.362444/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/faster-spool-than-a-holset.361797/

 

[JusMX141]

The 68HTA is essentially a billet 18G, and the DSM Black is a very laggy turbo that doesn't appear to be capable of the airflow it's rated for.

Realistically, the 68HTA is a 380whp turbo on pump gas and 430ish whp on Ethanol based on the results of the majority of owners. Other users have gotten more on picture-perfect tunes or on setups that were built to max out the 68HTA. Using any car that went low-10's on a 68HTA as an example is foolish...the same car would've went three tenths slower with an off-the-shelf Evo III 16G- and how many of those turbos have gone 10's versus how many are in circulation?

The Black uses the largest rotating assembly available in a 20G platform. It's rated at 68 lb/min, but I'm certain those numbers are adapted from another platform or possibly even the HTA82 where the compressor was taken from. One user posted on here that they were seeing 28psi at 4800rpms logging 51 lb/min which definitely seems like it leaves a lot to be desired. The latest 68HTA is rated at 51 lb/min and would spool about 800rpms sooner...but wouldn't give you much on top end like the Black would.

You're overlooking the Red and Green....both units which fall right in the middle-ground and are completely capable of the airflow they're rated at while spooling relatively-quick. But as far as some of the suggestions found here- you're not making 500hp with a 68HTA too easily, and if you're making 500hp with a Black you're going to be waiting a while for it to happen.

 

[familyMAN]

I was just given a ride in a pump gas DSM82 at just 25psi. Very impressive spool and power. Can't believe it just bolts on. Not the cheapest option but it sure does work. TON of head room with e85 or race gas.

 

[JusMX141]

^ There ya go...instead of the Black, go for the kill and choose a turbo that's definitely capable of maxing out the compressor while spooling as quick (or probably even quicker) than the Black ever could simply because you're using the compressor a turbo designed to support such airflow instead of something that was loosely adapted from the 20G platform.

 

[familyMAN]

It would smoke a DSM black on spool based on the limited graphs I have seen on DSMs. Probably close to the twin scroll evo black.

 

[donniekak]

^ There ya go...instead of the Black, go for the kill and choose a turbo that's definitely capable of maxing out the compressor while spooling as quick (or probably even quicker) than the Black ever could simply because you're using the compressor a turbo designed to support such airflow instead of something that was loosely adapted from the 20G platform.

It was my car, so I have some input that's useful.

The red as it came from fp was really laggy, and wouldn't even open the wastegate in 1st or 2nd. After installing the 7cm td06h housing I bought from you, it was an e85 beast. Not real good on pump, but it put out mid to high 500whp for over a year without issue.

When I put the dsm82 on the exact same setup, spool was almost identical to the 7cm red. So it spools much faster than a red you would get from fp. Expect 300-500 rpms faster spool with the bigger dsm82 than the red. Also the dsm82 now has the 82htz compressor rated for 71lbs/min. With pump and minimal tuning, it's just shy of 500hp. With e85 it's easily over 600 without pushing over 35psi, plenty of room there.

With the dsm82 in 110* ambient temps I get 20psi at 4400 rpms, and 30 at 4700. Very quick spool for what fp told me was a 650-700whp turbo.

 

[donniekak]

I was just given a ride in a pump gas DSM82 at just 25psi. Very impressive spool and power. Can't believe it just bolts on. Not the cheapest option but it sure does work. TON of head room with e85 or race gas.

Coming from the guy who's hx40 on e85 would run away from my dsm82 on pump like it was a civic.

 

[CrackedDSM]

That's on a 2.3, right Donnie?

 

[familyMAN]

That's on a 2.3, right Donnie?

Nope Donnie is 2.0

Coming from the guy who's hx40 on e85 would run away from my dsm82 on pump like it was a civic.

I don't know about that. Maybe from a dig. Too bad I didn't get an E85 dsm82 ride. Then you'd walk me like a civic