Tuning: Which solutions should I go with?

[Nate355RS]

Ok so I have a few options, I recently bought a 1992 AWD Talon that has some mods (see below). The previous owner was at one point in time running a GM MAFT, but then switched to a VPC but left the GM MAF on the car

I want this to be a daily driver and have good manners around town, with a consistent and safe tune. And as always, I'm trying to be as cost effective as possible. Here's my options as I see them:

1. Put the work in learning how to tune using the VPC
2. I already have a GM MAF, so I could just get the 2nd gen MAFT
3. Ditch the VPC and GM MAF and spend the $500 on Link

What do you guys think is the best option? If I left out something I'm all ears, I'm just learning this stuff as I go. I've tuned a number of GM cars, so I'm not afraid of the learning curve on any option, that's part of the fun.

This is just going to be a little quick DD car, so I just want something that can help me get ok gas mileage, have a solid idle, and behave itself on the road. If it puts a smile on my face when I crack open the throttle that's a bonus

1992 AWD Talon
Freshly rebuilt shortblock using new OEM parts
Evo 8/9 cams
Ported 2g head, intake, and exhaust manifold
Ported 18g turbo
Stainless 02 housing, downpipe, and 3" exhaust
Evo 8 Injectors
255lph fuel pump
LC-1
Larger than stock SMIC with hard piping
2g BOV
New Centerforce Dual Friction clutch set

 

[snowborder714]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/406033-tuning-solutions-you.html

 

[Gamble97]

Ecmlink is the only real tuning solution!
/thread

 

[phunny]

Ecmlink is the only real tuning solution!
/thread

Yup.

You do realize you are on ecmtunings website right? Lol

 

[ExtremeTurboSystems]

V3 ECMlink all the way. I have it in both my DSMs and have used the MAFT and an AFC. Nothing compares to ECMlink. unless you go full standalone but for the price Link is still better in my opinion. If you are really on a budget the MAFT will work for you, you just don't have timing control.

 

[richard33]

I've had an safc, Dsmlink, and aem ems. Link is by far the best thing for your setup. All that gm maf stuff you should just get rid of. Put it on speed density

 

[Nate355RS]

It's currently on an SD tune using the VPC. You think it would be pretty straightforward to remove the VPC and install ECMLink? Just from looking at the ECM, it looks like the VPC install was pretty invasive. I guess I would just cut out the VPC and then solder and shrink wrap the wires back to stock, and then start with the ECMLink install?

 

[MY1GDSM]

The MAFT Gen II is ALOT better then the old v2.01 Maf-t and with a basic Setup like Evo injectors itwouldn't bethat bad... . But, I'd keep it on SD before going with a GM flat out regardless of how you go about that even if it was on the VPC still. Speed density is far more consitstant then any Form of running a GM maf.
The Maf Gen II is not to run just a GM Maf as well... .

Unless you plan on doing a lot more to the Car down the road. I don't see a ton of gains spending that much on ECMLink IMHO, I'd honestly invest the money in something like a nice Front Mount From ETS above.

But you can't go wrong with Link if you have Bigger plans for the car and plan on making lots of changes over time... . Take Note: You will need a Eprom Ecu that's socketed of course if want to run it.

Also Soldering and heat shirking would be the best way to fix things if you pulled the VPC... Though VPC and most of the Old solutions for Speed Density had patch harness for between the Ecu and cost about as much as a stand alone new.

As far as other options if you are the DIY type read threw The link in Brian's Post there are lots of options out there to get the same result. In the End it just the user interface to get there.

 

[Nate355RS]

The Talon has about everything done to it that I'm going to do, as far as power adding mods go. I'm going to mainly use it as a daily while I build up my other car. If I could get it to idle, have good street manners, and hold a safe AFR at WOT I'd be happy staying with VPC.

Right now, my wideband is showing a pretty inconsistent AFR. At cruise it's spot on right around 14-15:1, but it has a lean stumble on tip in and it has a really rich idle of 12:1 at best. The WOT runs start around 14:1 and gets gradually richer staying around 11:1 at the top of the RPM band.

I feel the same way as you about staying SD, something about having a boost leak and not being able to drive the car home safely turns me off the MAF idea.

 

[MY1GDSM]

What are your currant VPC settings at now? Sounds like it just needs adjusted to start with... . Do you have any type of Datalogger and do you have a Eprom Ecu that would be a start...

 

[markeski]

i used dsmlink and had a performance shop (boostin performance of addison) tune the vehicle professional. Unless you have a lot of experience I'd leave the computer based tuning to the professionals. I'd be concerned with engine problems from an improper tune.

 

[turbolover10]

Link and no looking back!

 

[91stocker]

Maft and 650's will make a pretty quick dd. Or even the 550's you have. I have no experience with the vpc. If its similar to the maft i would keep it and learn how to use it though.

Link is a pretty big investment for a car that will never see more then 350hp. Especially if you dont have an eprom ecu, near $1k.

 

[Gamble97]

Maft and 650's will make a pretty quick dd. Or even the 550's you have. I have no experience with the vpc. If its similar to the maft i would keep it and learn how to use it though.

Link is a pretty big investment for a car that will never see more then 350hp. Especially if you dont have an eprom ecu, near $1k.

Ignore this guys post, because he is clueless.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

Ignore this guys post, because he is clueless.

Wow.. so helpful. Considering your one and only post in this thread was "ecmlink is the only tuning solution!", I wouldn't be calling people out as clueless. Anyone who has been in this game for any amount of time will call your bullshit for what it is. Ecmlink is only one single option, and is rather pricey, but there are other options for him such as vpc tuning
, safc tuning, along with evo ecu upgrades and all that. Try being a tad nicer next time.

 

[Gamble97]

Wow.. so helpful. Considering your one and only post in this thread was "ecmlink is the only tuning solution!", I wouldn't be calling people out as clueless. Anyone who has been in this game for any amount of time will call your bullshit for what it is. Ecmlink is only one single option, and is rather pricey, but there are other options for him such as vpc tuning
, safc tuning, along with evo ecu upgrades and all that. Try being a tad nicer next time.

Sure I'll rephrase it for you that can't get a clue.
Ecmlink is the only worthwhile tuning option!
Ecmlink is the best tuning solution.

I've been in the game since you where in diapers. And it's not pricey! It's by far the best bang for the buck, but I'm sure you are a cheap skate and can't afford it on mommys allowance.

VPC sucks.
Safc is not worth the money for the control you get.
And don't call ecmlink pricey when you see what people sell the evo8 ecu's for, plus the harness, plus all the hassle to get the car ready to run. Ecmlink is plug and play and it doesn't get any better than that.

And you can't or shouldn't comment on something you have never even tuned with!

 

[RadDsm]

Maft and 650's will make a pretty quick dd. Or even the 550's you have. I have no experience with the vpc. If its similar to the maft i would keep it and learn how to use it though.

Link is a pretty big investment for a car that will never see more then 350hp. Especially if you dont have an eprom ecu, near $1k.

How do you figure $1k?
V2 and V3 go all day in the classifieds for $400-$550 with an ECU. Pretty damn cheap for access to one of the best tech and support forums and a great tuning product that is super user friendly.

 

[Gamble97]

How do you figure $1k?
V2 and V3 go all day in the classifieds for $400-$550 with an ECU. Pretty damn cheap for access to one of the best tech and support forums and a great tuning product that is super user friendly.

Like I said he is clueless.
v3 lite is all the OP needs and it's $425
$425
ECMTuning, Inc.

And if he doesn't have an eprom he can get it converted for $130 since he has a 1g.
ECMTuning, Inc.

Still a long cry from $1k

 

[MY1GDSM]

From the OP's mouth... .

The Talon has about everything done to it that I'm going to do, as far as power adding mods go. I'm going to mainly use it as a daily while I build up my other car. If I could get it to idle, have good street manners, and hold a safe AFR at WOT I'd be happy staying with VPC.

There is No need to turn this into the million of other threads on here people of this Vs that.

ECMlink V3 is a Great product. But not the End all of tuning. more so for someone with a close to stock car that is the DIY type

Not gonna get caught up it this as I have somethings to do an need to get off here.

But I'll say this... .

Rather then bicker about this or that
How about trying to help the OP with their currant issue with the car and actually be helpful being it has something to tune on the car NOW

Or has anyone here even used one before?

 

[91stocker]

Sure I'll rephrase it for you that can't get a clue.
Ecmlink is the only worthwhile tuning option!
Ecmlink is the best tuning solution.

Average fanboy gibberish. Its the best because it is!

I've been in the game since you where in diapers. And it's not pricey! It's by far the best bang for the buck, but I'm sure you are a cheap skate and can't afford it on mommys allowance.

Says the guy about to turbo a corolla

VPC sucks.

Why? "because it does?" Its ignorant to make comments like that without supporting it with actual facts.

Safc is not worth the money for the control you get.

They are going for $100 all day long. And the former 14b awd record holder was tuning with a safc. Low 11's on stock turbo with a safc, id say its worth quite a bit.

And don't call ecmlink pricey when you see what people sell the evo8 ecu's for, plus the harness, plus all the hassle to get the car ready to run. Ecmlink is plug and play and it doesn't get any better than that.

It is pricey, extremely. You said the link package comes with an ecu, which it doesnt. You can send them your for conversion for additional cost. Or buy your own for $200. To run speed density, Link $550, sd bundle $100, eprom $200, having an aluminum bung welded on the elbow isnt free. $1k is a realistic price, stop trying to sell your nuthugger nonsense. Even with out sd its still $600+ for what you listed in post #18, compared to a free vpc.

The guy has a vpc already. No cost involved in learning how to use it. And its more then capable for his goals. Why buy something he doesn't need?

The average dd does not need link, you guys sure like to sucker people into them though. A maft is really any dd every needs. Why so hostile? Acting like someone slapped your momma, damn.

 

[swifteagle]

Or you can find a good used aem ems for around or cheaper then link and you don't have to use a 20+ year's old ecu.Aem is the last tuning device you will ever need.But if you are just going to stay with smaller turbo and injectors I would try to use the vpc.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

Average fanboy gibberish. Its the best because it is!



Says the guy about to turbo a corolla



Why? "because it does?" Its ignorant to make comments like that without supporting it with actual facts.



They are going for $100 all day long. And the former 14b awd record holder was tuning with a safc. Low 11's on stock turbo with a safc, id say its worth quite a bit.



It is pricey, extremely. You said the link package comes with an ecu, which it doesnt. You can send them your for conversion for additional cost. Or buy your own for $200. To run speed density, Link $550, sd bundle $100, eprom $200, having an aluminum bung welded on the elbow isnt free. $1k is a realistic price, stop trying to sell your nuthugger nonsense. Even with out sd its still $600+ for what you listed in post #18, compared to a free vpc.

The guy has a vpc already. No cost involved in learning how to use it. And its more then capable for his goals. Why buy something he doesn't need?

The average dd does not need link, you guys sure like to sucker people into them though. A maft is really any dd every needs. Why so hostile? Acting like someone slapped your momma, damn.

+1. Ditto.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I bought link because of the help here and on the forums, nice price I really enjoy all the features not, getting anything else regardless of price.

 

[talon2gbuyer]

I think gamble missed the point of my post. When its a toss up between ecu link and aem ems, dsm link has more personal support here on this site. While many See $425 (without the eprom transfer) as a small price, for those on an extreme budget, that's half a months rent right there. While not the most expensive thing out there it certainly is not the easiest thing to afford either.

My other point was that eculink is far from the only choice in terms of tuning, but it is ideal to have simply because of the support here. But that is really the only reason aside from price and functionality that anyone would pick link over vpc tuning. As for the op, I'd suggest just getting a maft and tune with vpc for now. If you go bigger turbo, injectors, etc then by all means I'd invest in dsmlink.

Gamble, sorry bro but you seemed kinda pompous with your reply to him. He's looking for viable options with what he already has, not "hey I have a spare $500 to spend". So most of us will direct him to tune with vpc since he already has it, and it won't cost him any additional money. I get what your saying, but I think link may be a tad overkill for this particular dd with his mods, as modest as they are.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I was not wealthy when i got mine but i spent the money once, i rather spend it there rather than performance parts, the price may not be for everyone but depends on goals, i had to do some savings to get mine. It isnt going anywhere so he or she can always find it if they choose to.