tune only with the wideband?

[mnetwork]

It seems like every tuner around me says that they tune only with the wideband.. If I'm not mistaken I've been tought on these forums that a wideband is not enough and tuning for good timing (no knock) is the most important.. I tell the guys these and they just say that when they put a turbo in and the car has an S-AFC that they just tune with the wideband.. I'm finally having my EVO3 16G put in and they are telling me that they are gonna tune it with the wideband and now I'm scared. Also, what goal do tuners shoot for.. the EVO3 could put out a wide range of horsepower on my car.. what am I supposed to tell them I want.. Do I tell them I want a specific horsepower??

 

[The_EE]

It seems like every tuner around me says that they tune only with the wideband.. If I'm not mistaken I've been tought on these forums that a wideband is not enough and tuning for good timing (no knock) is the most important.. I tell the guys these and they just say that when they put a turbo in and the car has an S-AFC that they just tune with the wide band.. I'm finally having my EVO3 16G put in and they are telling me that they are gonna tune it with the wide band and now I'm scared. Also, what goal do tuners shoot for.. the EVO3 could put out a wide range of horsepower on my car.. what am I supposed to tell them I want.. Do I tell them I want a specific horsepower??

Both are correct. You tune with a wide band to get the correct Air to Fuel Ratio to generate the most power with the correct octane fuel. You also tune to have no knock. The leaner you run the car, the more power you can make, when the car starts to knock, you add some more fuel to remove the knock and you should be right about the area you need to be. Wide bands are the best tuning tool you can have.

As for the horsepower, it depends on what mods you have. Do you have all the fuel and supporting mods? ( didnt check your profile ). If so, you could get 300hp without too many problems on pump if I remember correctly which is good for around high 12's.

To sum it up. Correct AFR will keep you from knocking so yes, a wide band is fine to tune on.

 

[dieseltech]

Both are correct. You tune with a wide band to get the correct Air to Fuel Ratio to generate the most power with the correct octane fuel. You also tune to have no knock. The leaner you run the car, the more power you can make, QUOTE]

You may want to rethink that statement.

 

[JayRolla]

Your friends are correct. You can tune way better with just a wideband than a logger. But it is nice to see if you knocking.

When my brother got his tuned they had no logger just the WB and when we hooked it up to the logger there was no knock. He said he could see where it knocked by where the timing curve dropped.

 

[JayRolla]

What does he need to restate. He is correct, the leanest you can make the a/f ratio without knocking will give you more power. Running to rich will cause you to lose power. This is why tuning with just a logger doesnt work as good.

 

[dieseltech]

Because to it than that. Wouldn't you agree that you will go richer when your off the line in WOT than when you hit 5k rpm's. You have to have a richer fuel mix to help turbo spool. yes?

 

[GVR4592]

What does he need to restate. He is correct, the leanest you can make the a/f ratio without knocking will give you more power. Running to rich will cause you to lose power. This is why tuning with just a logger doesnt work as good.

That's not correct either. It depends on the fuel and the type of engine. Our engine's with gasoline will make more power between 11:5:1 and 12.2:1. If you go leaner or richer, power will fall off.

 

[GVR4592]

Because to it than that. Wouldn't you agree that you will go richer when your off the line in WOT than when you hit 5k rpm's. You have to have a richer fuel mix to help turbo spool. yes?

You'll want more fuel at peak torque, doesn't matter if it comes in at idle or 5k rpm's. Richer mixtures in most cases won't spool the turbo any quicker.

 

[GVR4592]

It seems like every tuner around me says that they tune only with the wideband.. If I'm not mistaken I've been tought on these forums that a wideband is not enough and tuning for good timing (no knock) is the most important.. I tell the guys these and they just say that when they put a turbo in and the car has an S-AFC that they just tune with the wideband.. I'm finally having my EVO3 16G put in and they are telling me that they are gonna tune it with the wideband and now I'm scared. Also, what goal do tuners shoot for.. the EVO3 could put out a wide range of horsepower on my car.. what am I supposed to tell them I want.. Do I tell them I want a specific horsepower??

The safest way to do it is with a datalogger (to monitor timing advance) and a wideband to get a smooth safe A/F curve.

 

[wvturbo2]

HOw bout eprom with the knock gauge for the stock boost gauge and a wideband ?

 

[DSMunknown]

HOw bout eprom with the knock gauge for the stock boost gauge and a wideband ?

NEVER use the stock boost gauge to tune anything. It's garbage. Let's just leave it at that.




Just so the OP knows - with a narrowband, it informs you when you are under or over the 14.7 ratio, but it doesn't tell you by how much. Thus is the reason why you are told to purchase a wideband.

 

[fulanititoo8198]

NEVER use the stock boost gauge to tune anything. It's garbage. Let's just leave it at that.




Just so the OP knows - with a narrowband, it informs you when you are under or over the 14.7 ratio, but it doesn't tell you by how much. Thus is the reason why you are told to purchase a wideband.

I use my boost gauge as my knock warning and it works great.

 

[garrett21]

There can be a problem with just tunning with a wideband sensor. If you have a boost leak your wideband will tell you that you are at 10.0:1 A/F ratio and you will think that you are way rich. So you think you need to lean it out but at 10.0:1 A/F ratio you have 15 counts of knock. So as long as you are watching your timming curve looking for knock you should be fine.

Also lean does not gain you very much power, you can gain more power from pulling timing than from a lean A/F ratio.

Buy a logger if you are scared, or borrow one. There has to be someone close to you that has one.

 

[mnetwork]

I have a logger built into my carpc.. I was just wondering how safe a wideband is to tune with.. sounds good.. I'll be purchasing a wideband soon anyway so the two should make a good tuning combo for the future.. Thanks for the help.

 

[mnetwork]

..... also.. should I just tell them I want around 260 whp and have them tune the boost and fuel for that goal?

My mods and the mods being installed should support this right?

 

[garrett21]

As for what to tell them to shoot for with HP. Pick a boost level that you feel safe with (ask yourself if your car is a daily driver, weekend warrior... ect.) and just see what it makes.

Your mods and everything look good. I don't see if your car was AWD or FWD. With the FMIC you should be good to make 260whp. No guarantees that you will. Take a look at the bragging right section to see what other cars are doing.

One part that could help you tune is a AFPR, not terrible needed with a rewired 190 but it could over run your stock FPR. I'm not sure if you are planning on spending more money on your car or not, but a few things for the wish list are DSMlink, eprom chip (help with the 650's), SMIM, Coil on plug, and suspension will help with ever thing (launching if you are drag racing). Just a few but a lot of money.

 

[JayRolla]

I dont see you really missing anything. You should beable to get at least 300whp out of her. Tune to what ever boost level you can without getting to much knock. If your running pump you wont beable to push more than 17-22psi depending on the car.

 

[mnetwork]

Yeah, I want between 250 and 300 at the wheels.. I need at least 300 crank horse power so I can beat the mustangs

 

[99vipereater]

NEVER use the stock boost gauge to tune anything. It's garbage. Let's just leave it at that.




Just so the OP knows - with a narrowband, it informs you when you are under or over the 14.7 ratio, but it doesn't tell you by how much. Thus is the reason why you are told to purchase a wideband.

You, misunderstood what was sad. He is going to use the stock boost guage to display his knock not use it to tune.