Running only wideband? Can I do it?

[v8s_are_slow]

I'm trying to make it to the races tomorrow. I don't have a datalogger I can use right now though and no exhaust. Only O2 housing. Downpipe gets here the day after the race (figures) so I have no way to install the wideband without taking out the stock O2. I'm running an Evo16g on 550cc injectors with no boost controller and it's running around 18 psi. Wanna make sure I'm safe with the afr's but wondering what'll happen if I take out the stock O2 and throw in the wideband for track duty for one day at wot down the track. My only tuning device at the moment is a gm translator and can't tell if it's the 1st version or a 2.0 version.

Wanna be as safe as I can. Really wanna make it cause it's the last race of the season and car just started acting up yesterday. I know it needs a tune but wideband is all I can use right now. Opinions?

 

[turboglenn]

Well, you must have at least 24'' of pipe after the wide band to stop ambient air from making it's way back to the sensor between pulses from the engine. Also, you are supposed to have 24 '' from the turbo to wideband. PLus with all that heat going right into the engine bay, i don't think i'd run with just an O2 housing anyway. Just my opinion, you may still do whatever you please. Good luck if you go to the track, report back with your times!

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Oh, and no place around town has unleaded racing fuel, otherwise I'd be throwing it in for sure. Also, this is an Autometer Cobalt and don't think it'll emulate a stock O2. I don't think anyway.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, you must have at least 24'' of pipe after the wide band to stop ambient air from making it's way back to the sensor between pulses from the engine. Also, you are supposed to have 24 '' from the turbo to wideband. PLus with all that heat going right into the engine bay, i don't think i'd run with just an O2 housing anyway. Just my opinion, you may still do whatever you please. Good luck if you go to the track, report back with your times!

Directions for this model says to place the sensor 4-5" after the turbo. Wondering about the extra piping though ya know? I'd think that at WOT, air wouldn't really be coming in. Correct? No?

 

[marcmsj]

Directions for this model says to place the sensor 4-5" after the turbo. Wondering about the extra piping though ya know? I'd think that at WOT, air wouldn't really be coming in. Correct? No?

I think he meant that the furthest you can put in the wideband would be 24 inches from the end of your exhaust (read: muffler) Pretty much the way that they do when you go to the dyno. Essentially the closer you put it to the turbo, the faster your reading would be but the sensor won't last as long.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

K, question though, what'll happen if I'm taking out the stock O2 to place the wideband in it without emulating a stock O2? Run really rich? Run like total crap? Even if I'm taking out fuel with the translator? Wondering if it'd be worth my time, eh, if I could make it to the track and run decently it would.

 

[turboglenn]

Using the wideband to control the closed loop to "emulate the narrow band" for the stock ECU is fine. the car will probably run better ( OH nevermind, you said you won't use it to control the ECU).. Then the car will run rich on it's failsafe maps for fueling with no o2 reading.

At wide open you may not have a problem with air pulses fluctuating the reading. And leaded gas isn't going to kill your sensor in that short of time. My first sensor lasted YEARS of tuning cars on race gas only. Mainly the only pump gas tuning it's done is for me and a few friends unless the customer specifically asks for a pump gas tune.

 

[marcmsj]

The wideband should have a narrow band (0-1v) output that you would use for the stock connection. Your computer needs to see that reading otherwise you'll throw a code and go into limp mode, which is not something you want to do. Most people keep their stock O2 sensor hooked up at the stock location and weld in another bung for the wideband somewhere on the downpipe. That's what I would recommend.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

The wideband should have a narrow band (0-1v) output that you would use for the stock connection. Your computer needs to see that reading otherwise you'll throw a code and go into limp mode, which is not something you want to do. Most people keep their stock O2 sensor hooked up at the stock location and weld in another bung for the wideband somewhere on the downpipe. That's what I would recommend.

I'd weld it myself but don't have a welder. Dang it. I only wanna run the car tomorrow and then take it off the road until I get the other parts in (as it's not my daily driver). Can I tune out the extra fuel if it's in limp mode? I'd rather be rich at this point though than lean. I think it's been knocking as I took out my plugs last night and saw some little gold looking flakes on one of the plugs. That's why I'm scared to run without the wideband. I have no clue where my afr's are at right now.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Also, the directions don't say anything about being able to read a 0-1v reading. Only a 0-4 (I figured it'd be 0-5 but it says 0-4. Hmmm...oh well). It has a couple of wires for hooking it up to a datalogging or tuning device but no mention what-so-ever of emulating a stock O2 or the lower 0-1v to hook it up that way.

 

[marcmsj]

Running it without a datalogger isn't advisable since you won't know if it's knocking or not, how much timing you're getting, etc. Tuning with the translator isn't very accurate but what you do is up to you. Wouldn't you prefer to run the car only after you get a datalogger so you can avoid future headaches?

 

[92awddsm]

You can run it without the stock sensor. You will get a check engine light, idle and drivability will suffer but wot performance will not be affected.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Oh of course. I'm getting Dsmlink here shortly. But you know how it goes. Think of it as Nopi being in town and everyone you know is gonna go race and you don't wanna be the odd ball out. But of course I'm gonna try and be smart about this as well though. I don't wanna do anything too stupid. I'd think that if my afr's are inline, that I wouldn't really be getting knock unless I was goin lean ya know? I'd have it running on the richer side versus tuning it for running on the edge. Heck, all the Translator is gonna do is add or remove fuel anyway. Timing, stutterbox, etc. wouldn't be adjustable anyway. It would have to be this weekend though instead of next weekend.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

You can run it without the stock sensor. You will get a check engine light, idle and drivability will suffer but wot performance will not be affected.

Check engine light isn't a big deal. It's a Dsm so that's to be expected right? Lol.

 

[92awddsm]

Check engine light isn't a big deal. It's a Dsm so that's to be expected right? Lol.

At wot, the ecu goes in to closed loop and uses preset fuel maps. When in closed loop, the ecu does not use signal from the o2 sensor so you will be just fine drag racing. Driving to and from the track without the stock o2 signal will suck but the car will make it there.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, the thing has to be installed anyway sooner or later so I may as well go ahead and get it all done and then just see how it runs and go from there. Once I get my downpipe, I'll probably have the bung welded onto that and be good to go from there. I don't have any boost control anyway so I'll probably just take that out and install it there....cause I'm waiting for the gauge pod as well. Thanks for the info folks....and if I run it, I'll post up some times but it's only an 1/8th mile track

 

[turboglenn]

0-4v out? What brand wideband did you get?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Autometer Cobalt.

While we're on the subject, what's a safe afr reading to run at knowing I don't have a logger and I'm not wanting to run on the extreme's? Just safe. It's been a good while since I've had to mess with a wideband.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Posted this on my local forum. I'm a happy camper right now.

Something's finally going right!!! Yeehaw!!! I went ahead and installed the wideband today. Took out the boost gauge cause I have no control over the boost anyway and right now, finding out my afr's was just more important. Wasn't boosting over 18psi anyway. I took out the stock O2 sensor and put the wideband in it's place cause right now I don't have a downpipe or anywhere else to put it. As soon as I started it up, it was running 10.0 on the wideband. Drove down the road and it stayed 10.0. Stopped and did a couple of clicks on the translator aux knob to the right and the idle immediately picked up. Went and looked and it was about 15.6 at idle. Did 2 right clicks on the low knob and it's right around 14.7 now. Got in and drove it VROOOOM!!!! It was immediately noticable. It was just running way too rich before.

I'm glad the Dsm God's are loving me today. They've finally shown me some mercy So long as it's not wet or raining outside tomorrow, I'll be at the races!!! Woohoo!!!!

Only thing I'm wondering is where my afr's need to be on the top end cause it started breaking up at the top of my rpm's. Thinkin it's still too rich. Was running 10.0's for my afr's. Other than that though, I'm so freaking happy

 

[zatomz]

My AEM wideband says 36" away from turbo so I welded mine in 36" away from turbo.

 

[92awddsm]

Posted this on my local forum. I'm a happy camper right now.



Only thing I'm wondering is where my afr's need to be on the top end cause it started breaking up at the top of my rpm's. Thinkin it's still too rich. Was running 10.0's for my afr's. Other than that though, I'm so freaking happy

Try sticking around 11.2-11.5 for afr. One you get the tune, reinstall your boost gauge because generally when it is leaned up that much, it may increase boost a little.

 

[turboglenn]

Try sticking around 11.2-11.5 for afr. One you get the tune, reinstall your boost gauge because generally when it is leaned up that much, it may increase boost a little.

Why would you re-install it? I've made tons of changes over time both tuning and parts wise, but naver had to re-intsall the boost guage. I'm thinking it's a joke almost, but i'll humor you to ask why.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

So about an 11.5 for the afr's huh? Staying away from 12's?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay, I went to the track today. I definately need slicks. The car is making a bunch of power for sure. The times sucked with a best of 9.6, spinning the entire 1/8th mile every run. Freakin Honda even beat me

On my way home I figured I'd see how well it'd do from a roll. So at about 75mph and in 3rd gear, I punched it and spun all the way to 90-95 which is about when I let off cause the car was a lot to handle and keep straight. So I know the car has a lot of power potential but just can't get it to the ground yet.

 

[kraka]

On race gas I would've tuned for high 11 - 12.0 A/F with a little extra boost than on pump. To be honest, if you ran 110+ octane I wouldn't have gone through all of this trouble with the wideband and limp mode/burning sensors etc jut for a couple runs. Just bump up the boost and lean it out a tiny bit, it's blind tuning but the high octane will do it's job for knock prevention.

Oh, and your on a 16g with basic supporting mods and 18psi. You don't need slicks yet.