Trying to reach the dsm turbo gods (turbo related question)

[Isaacson06]

Hi guys im new here im going to start off by saying im not going to lie i dont own a dsm i made this name here because i need your guys help. I have built a 81 yamaha xj650 motorcycle completely custom its fuel injected and turbo using a TD05H numbers on it are 49178-01010 i drove it all summer 4k miles no problems well its under the knife again new intake manifold new turbo manifold ect but i need help increasing the spool time on this turbo i really dont want to lose the reliability of these turbos always have had good luck with them. I believe i have a 7cm housing on it now im looking to improve the spool time any little thing will help let me know what info you guys need from me to make this easy thanks again for all help.

Heres some pics to show you what im workin on.

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heres the stock housing with some polishing done

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heres the new intake in the works

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[Cdc1221]

Very nice sir, but this belongs in the hangout section, not here. To answer your question, honestly i think you would be better off with a 13g or similar turbo. A tdo5 is too big for the displacement + rev range. Or swap to a 6cm hotside off a 14b at least.

 

[Isaacson06]

thanks for the replay if theres a mod could move this to the right thread sorry for posting in wrong place

what do u guys think about a 9b?? one on ebay

 

[kenamond]

I don't necessarily agree that this should be moved to hangout. Some of us would discuss turbocharging lawnmowers and snowblowers in earnest.

As far as the turbo issue is concerned, I agree that you should investigate sizing the turbo to your motor. Google it and you'll find out the specifics. In a nutshell, each turbo has a map of airflow vs. pressure ratio. If you know what boost level you want to run, that sets the PR. Engine displacement, RPM, and volumetric efficiency set the airflow. From that and, hopefully, from tuners accustomed to a similar situation, you should narrow down the list of compressor/turbine combos that are available to suit your needs.

Generally, if you're going with a single turbo (heh...sequential turbo setup on a bike might have cool-points), I don't know if you can research your way into the perfect solution. Typically, you pay for higher flow with greater lag and vice-versa, but when things get smaller, I don't know the rules of thumb. In our community, you can do a split-scroll turbine housing and a controller to switch between one or both halves; use half the turbine area at low boost to make the turbine look like a smaller unit for quick spool, then open up the 2nd half at higher airflow to boost efficiency. Or you could do two turbos, a dinky one and a small one, and use a somewhat elaborate wastegate setup to let the dinky turbine's wastegated flow drive the small turbine. Or spend a million bucks on a variable AR turbine housing that starts at dinky and adjusts continuously to small...but I don't know if these are even made for sub-liter displacement applications; the turbo might cost more than your bike.

So I'd just consider the easiest possibility: slightly smaller turbo may improve lag and maintain overall efficiency (and therefore boost).

If you had no knock issues, how high can you turn up the boost before (1) the turbo falls on its face or (2) you blow a head gasket, spin a bearing or otherwise destroy motor internals? If octane can drive you to (2) then can you upgrade the internals and beat the poor TD05 into the dirt for more power?

 

[Isaacson06]

i see the 14b i have is 405cfm and the 9b is 265cfm i rev my bike to about 10-10,5k and i have boost at about 6k but full boost at 7k so i was thinking the little 9b would still have enough im looking for 100-150hp and the td05 is a little over kill ?? how much would the 9b increse spool time you think ?? i just want to have boost sooner have more of a useable powerband. thanks guys

 

[Cdc1221]

The 9b should suit your needs and cut off a couple thousand rpm off spool time. It is designed to jump into spool right off idle on a tt3kgt. I cant see it running outside its efficiency range on a 650 either. If it were a 1000, maybe a different story

 

[n0de]

The 9b should suit your needs and cut off a couple thousand rpm off spool time. It is designed to jump into spool right off idle on a tt3kgt. I cant see it running outside its efficiency range on a 650 either. If it were a 1000, maybe a different story

I agree.

When I had stock turbos on my last stealth, the car literally was in boost by 1200rpm, and that's off of 3 cylinders mind you.

 

[Cdc1221]

Keep us updated bro. Id love to see a vid of this thing in a pull

 

[sciondan]

You could also look into a IHI turbo out of an early Ford probe. That turbo would probably spool real fast on that bike.

 

[Isaacson06]

Had a ihi on my wifes civic back in the day and it boosted nicely but i cant seem to find and and anyone know a good place to find a 9b or the ihi ?? ill keep you updataed ill post some vids tonight of last years track day had the go pro on thanks for all the help

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

TD04-12T or 11G from a Mitsu Pajero would be about perfect for a 10,000rpm 650cc in my opinion.

Almost identical spool to a 9B, but you would land in a more efficient part of the map even at moderate boost levels at high rpm.

These guys may be able to find you one, or atleast rebuild a junkyard TD04 with whatever wheel you need.

Here's a new 12T CHRA assembly:
http://shop.midwestturboconnection.com/MHI-TD04-12T-CHRA-MHI-TD04-12T-CHRA.htm

At one point, I had a GT25R on an R6, that bike was terrifying.

 

[sciondan]

Had a ihi on my wifes civic back in the day and it boosted nicely but i cant seem to find and and anyone know a good place to find a 9b or the ihi ?? ill keep you updataed ill post some vids tonight of last years track day had the go pro on thanks for all the help

I happen to have one. Bought a long time ago thinking I would put it on my bike. Never paned out thoe. PM me if your interested in it.

 

[Isaacson06]

so for the power im wanting (100-150hp) bike makes 45-60hp stock what turbo would you match to this 9b or ihi off ford probe i have a change to buy both just need to match one. the turbo mite see 5-15psi boost thanks

 

[Cdc1221]

I know nothing about the ihi so ill say 9b. It should be good for over 100

 

[JusMX141]

13G/13T or T25 would be ideal. Those were the quickest-spooling stock turbos that came on our cars with a target boost level of 9-11psi.

I know of a cute little S100 Borg that would be ideal for a project like this.

T2 inlet flange on the turbine housing, 4-bolt discharge flange...although you'd need an external wastegate.

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[Isaacson06]

i looked at some specs on the t25 seems that the exhaust a/r is .64 and the 14b im running now is .49 a/r so i dont think it would spool any faster???? correct me if im wrong thanks again guys

also would like to see what you guys think about this turbo besides it being a cheap china turbo 35 a/r exhaust that would spool pretty fast?? and they "say" it will make 200hp??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T15-GT15-20...Parts_Accessories&hash=item51a1f92651&vxp=mtr

 

[Cdc1221]

A t25 is. 49 a/r hotside

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

A/R is a ratio.. unless you are comparing A/R for the same housing footprint on the same wheel it means nothing useful.

You want a TD04-12T or even 13G/13T compressor wheel as Justin mentioned for a high VE 650 that runs out to 10.5k..

Plot the engine demand flow using the stock torque curve to adjust VE over the rev range, and you'll see where on the map the turbo will be operating and why we are recommending those turbos.

Reason why I had used a larger turbo (GT2554R) on my 2006 R6 is because it wound out to ~16,500rpm in spite of being down 50cc displacement to your XJ650

 

[Isaacson06]

^^^^^^^^^^^
thanks for clearing that up for me so im after a 12t or 13g/13t what did these come off of?? auto dsm? thanks for the help guys

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

13g would be real easy to find, they came in the 5cm2 TD04 found on 1G Autos and it would probably be a bit more efficient for your application.

The turbo you have now is a TD05H-14B in a 6cm2 housing and wrapped around a larger turbine wheel.

The 13G should light sooner and still provide more than enough flow for your application.

The 12T was found on Mitsubishi Pajeros and the link I gave you earlier should lead you to one if they prove hard to find used. But because the 12T wheel is physically smaller there is a smaller angular moment, which would also help with spool and still would flow plenty for your 150whp goals.

 

[bastarddsm]

Awesome. Yep find a 9b off a stealth or 13g off an auto dsm. The 13g will bolt in place of your 14b. You might even find an auto guy on here that would trade ya!

 

[JusMX141]

A t25 is. 49 a/r hotside

On manual 2G's, yes. On auto 2G's, the turbine housing is .45.

 

[98420a]

I don't necessarily agree that this should be moved to hangout. Some of us would discuss turbocharging lawnmowers and snowblowers in earnest.

As far as the turbo issue is concerned, I agree that you should investigate sizing the turbo to your motor. Google it and you'll find out the specifics. In a nutshell, each turbo has a map of airflow vs. pressure ratio. If you know what boost level you want to run, that sets the PR. Engine displacement, RPM, and volumetric efficiency set the airflow. From that and, hopefully, from tuners accustomed to a similar situation, you should narrow down the list of compressor/turbine combos that are available to suit your needs.

Generally, if you're going with a single turbo (heh...sequential turbo setup on a bike might have cool-points), I don't know if you can research your way into the perfect solution. Typically, you pay for higher flow with greater lag and vice-versa, but when things get smaller, I don't know the rules of thumb. In our community, you can do a split-scroll turbine housing and a controller to switch between one or both halves; use half the turbine area at low boost to make the turbine look like a smaller unit for quick spool, then open up the 2nd half at higher airflow to boost efficiency. Or you could do two turbos, a dinky one and a small one, and use a somewhat elaborate wastegate setup to let the dinky turbine's wastegated flow drive the small turbine. Or spend a million bucks on a variable AR turbine housing that starts at dinky and adjusts continuously to small...but I don't know if these are even made for sub-liter displacement applications; the turbo might cost more than your bike.

So I'd just consider the easiest possibility: slightly smaller turbo may improve lag and maintain overall efficiency (and therefore boost).

If you had no knock issues, how high can you turn up the boost before (1) the turbo falls on its face or (2) you blow a head gasket, spin a bearing or otherwise destroy motor internals? If octane can drive you to (2) then can you upgrade the internals and beat the poor TD05 into the dirt for more power?

There is a app in the android market from garret I belive that will help calculate proper turbo sizing. Hope that helps

 

[JusMX141]

I'm still going to say the T25 from a 2G auto with the .45 turbine housing would be a better choice. My two reasons are:

1) It has an actual hose nipple on the compressor outlet and doesn't require a j-pipe.

2) It has a centered 52mm inlet on the turbine housing instead of the off-centered inlet of the 13G's 5cm housing.

 

[Isaacson06]

good points but what do you mean off centered ??