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2G Transmission issues - throw out bearing

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
Hello,
I have been having an issue with my 97 GST for a while that have so far been unsuccessful to solve. I will try to explain as best as I can, but I'm not exactly an expert on this so I apologize if I get the terms wrong and for any confusion it may cause, although I will gladly try to correct/explain any miscommunication on my part.

Here's some background info to paint a picture of the situation: on the transmission, around the input shaft, there is supposed to be a sleeve that is part of the bell housing. This "sleeve" is what the clutch throw out bearing slides over whenever you step on the clutch pedal. The bearing then slides along the sleeve and pushes on the pressure plate diaphragm to release the clutch.

Here is the problem: that sleeve broke off on my car long ago. The entire sleeve broke off into pieces but left the transmission bell housing undamaged. The issue I'm having is that since the sleeve is gone, the throw out bearing has nothing to slide on that would keep it in place and allow it to move back and forth in an even, straight motion. Without the sleeve, there is now a pretty big gap between the ID of the bearing and the input shaft, and when I step on the clutch, the bearing doesn't move in a straight line and so it doesn't make full contact with the pressure plate evenly, thus putting uneven pressure on the teeth of the diaphragm, and since the pressure plate is spinning, this bearing then gets pushed along with the teeth that the bearing puts the most pressure on, throwing it off center, bouncing around, and I think you can imagine what happens, but the bearings end up in pieces, and so far i have gone through 4 bearings in the past year. They seem to last less every time.

I have tried a few different things to overcome this issue:
I used a socket that I cut up to fit in place of the sleeve, which so far was the longest time the bearing lasted, about a year and a few months.

I tried to use "better" quality bearings, but those name brand bearings lasted even less than the generic ebay ones I've tried in the past (1-2 months for name brands vs 4-6 months for the cheaper ones)

I tried using a bearing that was not OEM but it seemed to be stronger than the other ones, I just had to modify it a bit.

I have tried using needle bearings to replace the sleeve, which to me seemed like the best solution but haven't been able to find the correct size (ID, OD, Length)

(The pictures with the modified bearing are the latest attempt i made. There is a needle bearing inside the throw out bearing to reduce the clearance between the bearing and the input shaft, and the screws that put on the backside were meant to allow the bearing to slide back and forth without wobbling and to keep the bearing in place, which actually worked pretty well, at first, but now I think the Loctite wore off and something broke off and got stuck inside the pressure plate or something, since i cant push the pedal more than halfway and it's clearly pushing against something that won't budge. The broken bearing is a different bearing but shows the most common failures, besides the ones that were completely torn apart and ended up as pieces)

Sorry for the the lengthy post, I'm just trying to be as descriptive as possible to try and explain the situation. Any suggestions, ideas, or solutions would be appreciated.

Bu the way, I know the best solution would be to simply replace the transmission, and maybe save this for parts, but transmissions are not cheap, and more importantly they are hard to find. I've been looking but haven't had any luck.

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pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,584
3,021
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
All valiant attempts but I'm afraid there is no choice. You must replace the transmission or at least the bellhousing. Replacement of the bellhousing would require full transmission teardown. You may have already damaged the input shaft and most certainly the clutch and fork.
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
All valiant attempts but I'm afraid there is no choice. You must replace the transmission or at least the bellhousing. Replacement of the bellhousing would require full transmission teardown. You may have already damaged the input shaft and most certainly the clutch and fork.

I actually replaced the clutch this last time it broke down, just because I had already taken apart and figured I might as well.

The fork I also replaced somewhat recently. The old clutch still had >60% life left so I'm not too worried about those. The shaft appears to be in good condition, in my opinion, just maybe s few surface scratches on the smooth part, the teeth are fine.

I was thinking about just doing a swap for a hydraulic release bearing but don't have any information as to which one might work, or if it can even be done since I'd still have to figure out how to mount it on there securely

Find a used trans there out there look around and ask.

I've looked but so far the only one I've found was all the way across the country. I messaged the guy to see if he would be willing to ship it if i covered the costs, but he never got back to me with a price. He had it listed as local pick up only, so I'm guessing he just want interested in shipping it.

The only other one was one that had to be shipped from Japan but it was like $2000 total and that's a bit much for my budget.

Do you know if a hydraulic bearing would work? I've been thinking about it but I'm guessing I'll still have a similar issue if i cant mount it properly. The only other solution I'm thinking of is figuring out how to mount a replacement sleeve, but I'm not sure how to weld aluminum and I'd have to get the equipment to so as well...

I'm hoping someone can provide some ideas, maybe something i haven't thought of yet
 
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DrewmHolland

Proven Member
43
3
Apr 11, 2022
franklin, Tennessee
I've got a manual trans out of my car, can take some measurements or take pics if you need them but I think the socket trick was your best bet, maybe you can buy some tubing that'll fit snug.

I'd definitely try to weld that thing up, I know it's doable but aluminum is not easy.
 
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97egl

Proven Member
468
230
Feb 6, 2014
Brownsburg, Indiana
I've looked but so far the only one I've found was all the way across the country. I messaged the guy to see if he would be willing to ship it if i covered the costs, but he never got back to me with a price. He had it listed as local pick up only, so I'm guessing he just want interested in shipping it. The only other one was one that had to be shipped from Japan but it was like $2000 total and that's a bit much for my budget. Do you know if a hydraulic bearing would work? I've been thinking about it but I'm guessing I'll still have a similar issue if i cant mount it properly. The only other solution I'm thinking of is figuring out how to mount a replacement sleeve, but I'm not sure how to weld aluminum and I'd have to get the equipment to so as well... I'm hoping someone can provide some ideas, maybe something i haven't thought of yet
No offense but you'll need to have someone else weld it for you unless you get a Tig Welder and practice for a while before welding it. Tig welding cast aluminum is probably one of the harder types of welding to master. You could get a spool gun set up for a Mig but those dont always make the best welds a lot has to do with the machine and the user. You'll probably want to take the transmission apart so when you get it welded up the input shaft seal doesn't melt and you can make sure the welds don't penetrate the case causing a pinhole leak.

I think your best bet would be to watch the classifieds and maybe try posting a wanted on facebook for a bellhousing. There are probably a lot of people out there with grenaded transmissions or guys that swapped to AWD and have a FWD transmission laying around. You may have to buy an entire blown up transmission just to get the bellhousing...
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
Ive got a manual trans out of my car, can take some measurements or take pics if you need them but I think the socket trick was your best bet, maybe you can buy some tubing that'll fit snug.

Some measurements would be really appreciated. Specifically the diameter of the shaft, around the teeth and the smooth part. I was trying to measure it last time but couldn't find the calipers and had to use a tape measure to see if i could find a needle bearing the right size. I hadn't thought about tubing yet, that's not a bad idea.

One issue with the fitment is that it can't be snug though, since the shaft will be spinning but the bearing doesn't spin, all the friction would generate too much heat and it would just tear the bearing apart. I got lucky with the socket because there was a small gap big enough to allow for some movement and so only the socket got hot and the shaft remained undamaged when I tried that method.

But yes, if you would be willing to take some measurements I would really appreciate it, since I can't have the car disassembled on the driveway too long due to HOA regulations and I'd like to order the parts and have them ready by the time I do start working on it, but I'd need the measurements to see what parts i might need to order.

No offense but you'll need to have someone else weld it for you unless you get a Tig Welder and practice for a while before welding it. Tig welding cast aluminum is probably one of the harder types of welding to master. You could get a spool gun set up for a Mig but those dont always make the best welds a lot has to do with the machine and the user. You'll probably want to take the transmission apart so when you get it welded up the input shaft seal doesn't melt and you can make sure the welds don't penetrate the case causing a pinhole leak.

I think your best bet would be to watch the classifieds and maybe try posting a wanted on facebook for a bellhousing. There are probably a lot of people out there with grenaded transmissions or guys that swapped to AWD and have a FWD transmission laying around. You may have to buy an entire blown up transmission just to get the bellhousing...

Thank you for the input.

I had thought about welding but have heard that aluminum welding takes a minimum level skill, not to mention the equipment, both of which I do not have. I'm barely starting to practice mig welding but it's pretty clear i have a long way to go before I could lay a proper weld on something.

I had thought of another method but I could try but that would have probably caused me to ruin the transmission. Thanks to your information, I now know not to try that.

I've been hoping to find a tranny at the junkyard or even craigslist but so far the only ones I've found have either been automatics or for the 420a engine.
 
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97egl

Proven Member
468
230
Feb 6, 2014
Brownsburg, Indiana
Check car-part.com

You'll probably have to buy a whole transmission that way but if you can find one thats listed as a "core" call the yard up and make sure they can verify the case isn't cracked or has holes and you should be able to get one pretty cheap in core condition and then just use the bellhousing.
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
Thanks to everyone for their contribution. I appreciate it.

It looks like the best solution (to replace the transmission) is not feasible at the moment due to not being able to find a replacement part. If anyone has any creative ideas or suggestions to "fix" the issue without having to replace the transmission or welding aluminum, I would appreciate it.

With all this being said. I'm still not done tinkering with this and am hopeful I'll think of something. I'll try to take pictures of my progress so that in the event that one of the methods actually worked, I can then post the procedure on this site so that it might someday help anyone else facing the same issue. I will update with the results as time progresses.

Once again, thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I really like this site because I've noticed time and time again that people are actively engaging other car enthusiast and are willing to share their own experiences and information with those who could use it. It means there are potentially centuries worth of knowledge experience all gathered in one place, available at any time to those who seek it.
Thanks, everyone.
 
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1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
10,187
6,167
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
That is our goal, for the information to be here in years to come, along with answers! :thumb:
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,584
3,021
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
If you're talking quick and dirty ideas how about this. If you can get the area flat and have a proper snout machined glue it on. I used some two part industrial adhesives in the oil field and you could glue iron to iron pretty well. You would have to investigate aluminum and you don't have a ton of surface area.
If it were me and I had no option I would disassemble and take it to a welder.
I saw a gst trans on Facebook a few wek ago. Washington state area i think. Keep in mind you must have a 2g trans. 1g has no mounting bosses for motor mounts
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
Found another one in TX searching facebook marketplace. They're out there
Whoa.... Thanks. I don't have a Facebook account and have no intention of creating one any time soon so i didnt know about those ones, but my brother does. He usually lets me know when he finds something interesting on there(he's the one who told me about the one he found across the country, but it was a local pick up), but he might have stopped looking. I'll see if he can check for me again. I live in Oregon and I think there was one in Washington...? So that might work. Shipping something like a transmission might be too much of a hassle for someone who doesn't do it as a business, so I can understand why they might be willing to ship. Thank you for bringing these to my attention. If this doesn't work, I'll see if I can find a welding shop around my area
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
If you're talking quick and dirty ideas how about this. If you can get the area flat and have a proper snout machined glue it on. I used some two part industrial adhesives in the oil field and you could glue iron to iron pretty well. You would have to investigate aluminum and you don't have a ton of surface area.
If it were me and I had no option I would disassemble and take it to a welder.
I saw a gst trans on Facebook a few wek ago. Washington state area i think. Keep in mind you must have a 2g trans. 1g has no mounting bosses for motor mounts
Thank you for the idea. It's what I was hoping for. I'm still going to keep looking for a transmission to replace the whole thing but something came up and unfortunately that will have to wait, but I'm going to need the car running before then and so I'll have to choose the quicker option, and the least "dirty" that I could do. Your suggestion caught my attention because I was considering something similar but didn't have enough information. I've heard of industrial strength adhesives but have no idea where they sell them. Could you tell me what's the name of the one you used? I'm hoping that if I can find it somewhere, they might have a similar product for aluminum or at least know where to get it. I'm not sure that JB weld would be strong enough. Also, what's a snout machine? I don't think I've heard that term before
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,584
3,021
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Thank you for the idea. It's what I was hoping for. I'm still going to keep looking for a transmission to replace the whole thing but something came up and unfortunately that will have to wait, but I'm going to need the car running before then and so I'll have to choose the quicker option, and the least "dirty" that I could do. Your suggestion caught my attention because I was considering something similar but didn't have enough information. I've heard of industrial strength adhesives but have no idea where they sell them. Could you tell me what's the name of the one you used? I'm hoping that if I can find it somewhere, they might have a similar product for aluminum or at least know where to get it. I'm not sure that JB weld would be strong enough. Also, what's a snout machine? I don't think I've heard that term before
A snout machined. As in, have a snout made.
I don't know the adhesive, it was 25 years ago. Grainger, MSc, McMaster Carr industrial supply places should have a variety. Jb weld is not an adhesive.
 
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S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
A snout machined. As in, have a snout made.
I don't know the adhesive, it was 25 years ago. Grainger, MSc, McMaster Carr industrial supply places should have a variety. Jb weld is not an adhesive.
Thanks for the response. I was just considering making my own and using JB weld to attach it if I couldn't find anything better. I know it wasn't the best choice but I was simply considering options available, although a second opinion from someone more experience than myself was welcomed. Thank you for the info, I'll look into those places.
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
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Thank you for the info, I hadn't checked the post in a while due to external circumstances getting in the way. That was not a bad deal, but I'm not sure how much the shipping would cost and right now I'm a little short on funds. It might not even be available by now, but I do appreciate the effort nonetheless. At least now I know they're more common than I had anticipated, which does help
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,584
3,021
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Whatever you choose I would try to find out what happened. Make sure the hydraulics aren't locked. The clutch must be working properly. Something happened.
 

curt-s

Supporting Member
1,686
443
Dec 21, 2008
Winnipeg, MB_Canada
Someone rested the trans on the input shaft during install and fatigued the snout?
That would imply the input shaft was bent, which I would think would be somewhat noticeable while driving Especially after a year
JB weld is not an acceptable bonding agent. It doesn't have the bond strength and it's going to be heat cycled many times
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
8,584
3,021
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
I thinking clutch hydraulics are locked putting constant pressure on the tob or OP is using an extended slave rod with same result. Constant pressure on TOB.
 

bastarddsm

15+ Year Contributor
5,550
1,360
Aug 26, 2003
Mendota, Illinois
I have a 2g fwd here, I had planned on going through it and selling it. I have not yet. Save your pennies up. $500 plus shipping for a clean rebuilt one, not game of roulette.

99% you are not going to be able to glue or weld a new snout on. What you could do is fabricate a steel one with a thin flange and bolt it to the case, but you will need to take it apart to do that. Might be something I look into doing - making a repair kit. This is semi common and we are running out of mint cases.
 

S'tan

Probationary Member
17
1
Feb 8, 2021
Beaverton, Oregon
Whatever you choose I would try to find out what happened.

Yeah, the throw out bearing failed several years ago and it got torn apart, taking the sleeve around the input shaft along with it. They were both in pieces when I took the transmission off.

I've been replacing TOB's ever since but they kept on breaking without the sleeve, so that's the issue I need to fix. I'm trying to come up with alternate methods to make it work, since replacing the transmission is a bit of an issue at the moment.

The information provided by the members on this site has been helpful to avoid making some mistakes that I would have learned from the hard way, so even though I still need to come up with a solution, it has been useful and appreciated nonetheless.

I have a 2g fwd here, I had planned on going through it and selling it. I have not yet. Save your pennies up. $500 plus shipping for a clean rebuilt one, not game of roulette.

99% you are not going to be able to glue or weld a new snout on. What you could do is fabricate a steel one with a thin flange and bolt it to the case, but you will need to take it apart to do that. Might be something I look into doing - making a repair kit. This is semi common and we are running out of mint cases.

Oh, really? How long would you be able to hold it for and where are you located? So I could try to look up some shopping costs and try to get an estimate of what the total cost would be.

And yeah, I was considering a way to replace the snout but the more I think about it, the more doubts I have that I'd be able to make it work. I'm currently working on a different "solution" that I hope will work. If it does, I will provide the details of what I did in case it may help someone else. So far, I've probably spent $50 or less in parts and supplies, plus several hours of labor trying to get the part ready. If it works, it could be a great temporary fix in the meantime, until the transmission can be replaced. I'm hopeful it will work. I still need a transmission though, he he

Someone rested the trans on the input shaft during install and fatigued the snout?
That would imply the input shaft was bent, which I would think would be somewhat noticeable while driving Especially after a year
JB weld is not an acceptable bonding agent. It doesn't have the bond strength and it's going to be heat cycled many times

The snout broke when the TOB broke years ago. My guess is that with the TOB coming apart, the fork got tossed around whenever the TOB made contact with the pressure plate while it was spinning (it broke while I was driving, thankfully I was driving on a residential street approaching a stop sign so it happened at low speed) and the constant thrashing of all the metal bits and the fork hitting the snout as a result ended up breaking the snout as well. After all, the fork is hardened steel and the snout is aluminum.

At least, that what I think happened. Thankfully the shaft is fine and the damage was only to the TOB and the snout.
 
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