Timing?!

[JustinH]

Alright guys I went in to my timing belt case to replace my crank position sensor and found that the balance shaft belt was broke and looks like it has been broken for awhile so I replaced that and the timing belt and the sensor,

So my question is we'll line everything up and get them on their marks and tighten the belt up and then rotate the motor and the crank and the balance shaft will be off by 1/2 of a tooth. We've completely retimed it 7 times trying various things its the same end result is that 1/2 tooth fine and something that the car will adjust or am I doing something wrong?

 

[BogusSVO]

The question is, Why did the BS belt break?

Old age?

Or did the BS shaft lock up?

You were lucky the BS belt did not get in the timing belt and cause it to jump.

 

[JustinH]

I know and I think just old age i dont know for sure it looked like it had been broke awhile but I want to know about the timing

It's not seized because I can spin it with my hand

 

[DSM1G90]

The autoadjuster device is what you have to get right to get the marks to line up perfectly.

You need that necessary "drill bit" clearance of 3.8-4.5mm (.150-.177in, if you got a 7bolt, and as stated in the VFAQ site) between the lip of the pulley bracket and the top of the adjuster.

 

[pauleyman]

The autoadjuster device is what you have to get right to get the marks to line up perfectly.#

I'm sorry but this is wrong. The motor turns clockwise and the distance around the crank, oil pump, idler and cams is fixed. Timing marks are goverrned by this distance....everything is relative to crank position.

 

[JustinH]

So what then?

 

[pauleyman]

I dont think you are a half tooth off. I think your perspective may be off. Rotate it normally until crank lines up dead nuts then look at cams. Take pics. Most people I see obsess about this too much. They will think the cam is off when in reality the crank wasnt juuuussssst right. Only way for cams to be off is if the head was milled too far. Oil pump cant be off, neither can front balance shaft. Look again. Take pics. Post back.

 

[DSM1G90]

(In my defense of what I've seen and done for my above comment): .. If the auto-adjuster along with the tension roller isn't loaded correctly, it will toss the marks out of alignment a bit. I went through with that on my belt install until I got the adjuster loaded just right and all marks came to exact where they should be.

Yes, all marks should be aligned up when doing any belt, but the belt is purposely made longer to allow tension roller to take up the required slack.

Some tension rollers are just spring loaded and does the job where this 4G63 motor has two stages for correct belt tension - being the auto-adjuster and the adjustable tension roller. It just allows more precise belt tensioning due to the belt travel over the two sprockets. since there isn't that much belt wrap around the two sprockets

that tension roller to keep belt at a certain tension for proper mark alignment is the kingpin of all belt installs no matter what motor it is ... been there and done that with many OHC motors.

To the OP: in seeing the marks, get you a toolbox extension mirror so you can see the reflection of the marks, esp on the two cam sprockets. And do the best to eyeball the crank timing mark straight on and not at any angle.

-DSM

 

[luv2rallye]

So my question is we'll line everything up and get them on their marks and tighten the belt up and then rotate the motor and the crank and the balance shaft will be off by 1/2 of a tooth.

Important note from VFAQ (step 33 of 2g) that I want to repeat here: NOTE: THE EXHAUST CAMSHAFT SPROCKET MAY ROTATE IN THE COUNTERCLOCKWISE DIRECTION AS THE BELT IS TENSIONED. THIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED WHEN INSTALLING THE TIMING BELT. If the camshaft sprocket timing marks don't line up after tensioning the belt with all the other timing marks lined up, loosen the belt and retension it, but try rotating the exhaust sprocket slightly clockwise (1 tooth off) first.

Timing marks:
cammarks.png Photo by fourgsixthree33a | Photobucket
and
Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

 

[DSM1G90]

Why I clip the belt on the INT sprocket with a bulldog clip with its mark aligned up, then, with the 17mm wrench on the EXH cam sprocket, roll that sprocket to where the belt that is laying across the sprockets, will "hook" itself on to the EXH sprocket when the marks align up, then I clip the belt down on the sprocket.

Then check marks and both sprockets are aligned up an then continue to lace the belt (work clockwise), beginning on the back side of the belt travel.

 

[Turbo924G63]

I just replaced the oil pump, water pump, balancer shaft belt and timing belt. I put the No. 1 piston top dead with both valves closed, the cam marks are lined up with the dowels facing up, balancer shaft is lined up, oil pump mark is on and the crank mark is on. Car cranks like it has no compression, what did I do wrong???????????????

 

[ZeGaNe69]

DOHC and SOHC oil pump marks are on different places. Did you use correct oil pump?
Did you cranked or turned over the crank meanwhile, then timing belt was off?
Spark plugs are on?

Measure cylinders compression.

 

[Turbo924G63]

DOHC and SOHC oil pump marks are on different places. Did you use correct oil pump?
Did you cranked or turned over the crank meanwhile, then timing belt was off?
Spark plugs are on?

Measure cylinders compression.

Cars was running fine water pump went. It is a DOHC Turbo. Didn't crank or turn motor when belt was off. The oil pump is right on matched to the old one. Plugs are in.

 

[mercaholik]

Don't turn the crank when the timing belt is off! These are interference engines, meaning the piston will contact a valve. Now I don't think it would bend one if it was done slow and gentle, why is it necessary? You wanna rotate the motor six times (at least) before starting. But that's AFTER you install the timing belt and set the tension.

 

[Turbo924G63]

Don't turn the crank when the timing belt is off! These are interference engines, meaning the piston will contact a valve. Now I don't think it would bend one if it was done slow and gentle, why is it necessary? You wanna rotate the motor six times (at least) before starting. But that's AFTER you install the timing belt and set the tension.

I followed the procedures, can't figure out what went wrong.

 

[mercaholik]

Ok, so do you have a new oem tensioner? Did you lay a straight edge across the head and step back and check? Take a pic with a straight edge of possible. What type of belt did you use?

 

[yoder]

quick ? though if it was broke why not just go ahead and do a balance shaft elimination on it and save the trouble of ever having to deal with it