The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[1SloEvo]

Considering that you can pick up a 14b for as little as $50, I do not think I would bother with a rebuild, unless you are going for a record and NEED a pristine 14b

This is what I HOPE to be doing next year (pending funds). Does anybody know what Bucci's Laser weighed when he got the record? I know he had stripped out everything he could take out, but did it have the aluminum floor and all in it at that time? Just wondering what I might have to do with my Laser to have a chance at possibly catching that record. I do know some decent compression in the motor along with E85 is in the mix!

 

[Nate Crisman]

This is what I HOPE to be doing next year (pending funds). Does anybody know what Bucci's Laser weighed when he got the record? I know he had stripped out everything he could take out, but did it have the aluminum floor and all in it at that time? Just wondering what I might have to do with my Laser to have a chance at possibly catching that record. I do know some decent compression in the motor along with E85 is in the mix!

I think he has posted the total weight within this topic (maybe 10 or so pages back), I think at 2175 with driver.

 

[1SloEvo]

Damn...that's light. Guess I gotta hope the added power of better tuning and better fuel helps out a lot too!

 

[GRNDSM]

So tonight I borrowed a set of slicks, dropped some weight (removed bench seats and a spare tire). Results were pretty good:
1.647 60' time
7.869 @87
12.445 @106.6

Shifting was just OK, as I was determined NOT to miss a shift.

Next run, pulled a bit of timing (I saw 4 deg timing being pulled due to knock) and a bit less boost. Unfortunately, my shifter knob spun off and I missed 3-4 shift

1.698 60' time
7.822 @88
12.451 @102.56

So, I probably left .2 sec a the track tonight, but that is OK, I am happy! Again, the response to the van has been amazing!
This was totally stock (not even ported) 14b running 23psi dropped to 16psi on pump gas. Race weight around 3050-3100lbs.

 

[1SloEvo]

That's still very impressive! Congrats! Very good 60' times!

 

[GRNDSM]

Thanks, but for slicks, these 60's are not great. They were basically equalizing the terrible traction that comes with late October 9pm lack of traction. I am used to running 1.4's on these tires and 1.6's on street tires on a well prepped track.

However, my experience is based on race prepped DSMs, who knows what to expect with this van? It has an open rear diff, shorter wheelbase and it is heavier. I guess I was hoping for 1.5's because that is what I would normally get in a DSM under similar conditions.

Edit: Videos of 12.4 passes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP-x76mXHNY

 

[GRNDSM]

So... I had a chance to review my logs... Who can notice 4 degrees of knock retard on that first run? I have never seen it THAT obvious! 14b must be very susceptible to knock retard.

That thing needs some actual tuning

 

[Phil1320]

Work

 

[RipperXX]

Dang Phil, what are you doing, sanding it all by hand?





BTW, just want to say, whenever the hell I finally get back to the states...whenever that is. You guys have inspired me to.. well I think im going to revert my car back to mostly stock and start over sorta speak. Just to see what I can do.

 

[YZFR1]

As it turns out, somehow, i managed to blow my motor with my little forteen bee

Now, i might have a choice between a 2.0L or a 2.3L

If i go with a 2.3L, is it best if i use a stock head/cams or the one with GSC S2 cams and a lot of work?

Just looking for some advice or feedback

 

[Phil1320]

Dang Phil, what are you doing, sanding it all by hand?





BTW, just want to say, whenever the hell I finally get back to the states...whenever that is. You guys have inspired me to.. well I think im going to revert my car back to mostly stock and start over sorta speak. Just to see what I can do.

And, for the record....I'd rather be where you are....heard of Wildflecken? That used to be my home.....

 

[turbojo]

Thanks, but for slicks, these 60's are not great. They were basically equalizing the terrible traction that comes with late October 9pm lack of traction. I am used to running 1.4’s on these tires and 1.6’s on street tires on a well prepped track.

However, my experience is based on race prepped DSMs, who knows what to expect with this van? It has an open rear diff, shorter wheelbase and it is heavier. I guess I was hoping for 1.5’s because that is what I would normally get in a DSM under similar conditions.

Edit: Videos of 12.4 passes:

Leon's AWD 4G63 Summit - YouTube

sweet

 

[1qkfwd]

Dang 2 days straight to read 76 pages to get caught up on this thread. Theres alot of good stuff here.

Im chiming in here because I needed something new to do. I ran 12.1@114 in my fwd on 04, then 11.8@120 with a 50 dry shot. Ditched the fwd went awd ran a GT40R went 9.9@137 with a 1.39 60'. Then I started helping my buddy out with his evo 3 16G car. This was last year and this year. I felt that back in 04 the 16G had alot more in it. We got the car dialed in and finished off at an 11.3@121. This was no nos, Q16, 2950 race weight, and 4000ft elevation. Now the past two months I put together my old fwd shell and ran a stock engine with a 6262. The car weighed in at 1976lbs and there is another 30-40lbs of free weight I can take out. Total race weight 2166. That is 74 lbs lighter than Joe B's car. I had an itch to wanna play with a small frame turbo and was gonna buy an HTA68. Last week I was cleaning shop and came across a 14B that came out of a car that had 75,000 well kept miles on it. Not a single crack in the housing and spins very good. The wheels in my head start turning. Then I log on to tuners and first thread I come to is this one. Now messing with my buddies 16G built my confidence up that im go see what I can get out of the 14B.

The car already has a built bottom end that came out of my awd. I hurt the head on a mis shift the the last outting. So I have a set of SS valves, crower springs & retainers, manley Springs & retainers, 2G head, RVR intake, 2G exhaust mani, 2G o2 housing, 3 different sized slicks (22",24.5",26"), a fwd trans with 75K on it, and the awd converted trans currently in use. There are a couple things I would like to find that I could change out to find the perfect combo. An FP manifold and an evo3 housing are a couple of those items. Ive been running Q16 and will contiune to run that. For the most part I like to keep my setups simple and only make the changes the car needs next. I'll try to post here as much as possible and keep things updated. Idk if I can get Joe B record at the elevation and might make a few trips to Sacramento to get that better air. You can count me in to push this little turbo to its limits.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Dang 2 days straight to read 76 pages to get caught up on this thread. Theres alot of good stuff here.

Im chiming in here because I needed something new to do. I ran 12.1@114 in my fwd on 04, then 11.8@120 with a 50 dry shot. Ditched the fwd went awd ran a GT40R went 9.9@137 with a 1.39 60'. Then I started helping my buddy out with his evo 3 16G car. This was last year and this year. I felt that back in 04 the 16G had alot more in it. We got the car dialed in and finished off at an 11.3@121. This was no nos, Q16, 2950 race weight, and 4000ft elevation. Now the past two months I put together my old fwd shell and ran a stock engine with a 6262. The car weighed in at 1976lbs and there is another 30-40lbs of free weight I can take out. Total race weight 2166. That is 74 lbs lighter than Joe B's car. I had an itch to wanna play with a small frame turbo and was gonna buy an HTA68. Last week I was cleaning shop and came across a 14B that came out of a car that had 75,000 well kept miles on it. Not a single crack in the housing and spins very good. The wheels in my head start turning. Then I log on to tuners and first thread I come to is this one. Now messing with my buddies 16G built my confidence up that im go see what I can get out of the 14B.

The car already has a built bottom end that came out of my awd. I hurt the head on a mis shift the the last outting. So I have a set of SS valves, crower springs & retainers, manley Springs & retainers, 2G head, RVR intake, 2G exhaust mani, 2G o2 housing, 3 different sized slicks (22",24.5",26"), a fwd trans with 75K on it, and the awd converted trans currently in use. There are a couple things I would like to find that I could change out to find the perfect combo. An FP manifold and an evo3 housing are a couple of those items. Ive been running Q16 and will contiune to run that. For the most part I like to keep my setups simple and only make the changes the car needs next. I'll try to post here as much as possible and keep things updated. Idk if I can get Joe B record at the elevation and might make a few trips to Sacramento to get that better air. You can count me in to push this little turbo to its limits.

Glad you are joining us! That 12.1 @ 114 FWD you ran, what size/type of slicks and what was your 60'? I'm FWD too and I just got a set of 225/50/16 Hoosier Drag Radials that I'll be taking to the track for the first time on Friday. I've been 113 MPH before but never into the 13's on street tires. I'm also going to be going to a 7cm housing and an external wastegate over the winter.

 

[1qkfwd]

Glad you are joining us! That 12.1 @ 114 FWD you ran, what size/type of slicks and what was your 60'? I'm FWD too and I just got a set of 225/50/16 Hoosier Drag Radials that I'll be taking to the track for the first time on Friday. I've been 113 MPH before but never into the 13's on street tires. I'm also going to be going to a 7cm housing and an external wastegate over the winter.

At that time I was on an awd trans, 26X8X15 M/T slicks @ 12psi, and the 60' times where mid 1.8's. The run right after the 12.1 was the 11.8 and the 60' time was 1.800. Now last month I was doing some testing and with those same slicks and cheap ebay coilovers I was pulling low 1.7s @ 8.5psi and the times where dropping the more seat time I got. I've never ran a fwd trans in the car with slicks so I dont know what works. I read that Joe B was running 22's on his 10.8 run and assuming it was with the fwd trans.

 

[pneumo]

At that time I was on an awd trans, 26X8X15 M/T slicks @ 12psi, and the 60' times where mid 1.8's. The run right after the 12.1 was the 11.8 and the 60' time was 1.800. Now last month I was doing some testing and with those same slicks and cheap ebay coilovers I was pulling low 1.7s @ 8.5psi and the times where dropping the more seat time I got. I've never ran a fwd trans in the car with slicks so I dont know what works. I read that Joe B was running 22's on his 10.8 run and assuming it was with the fwd trans.

Hey, I run at Sacramento too! Let me know the next time you go out, I need an excuse to take my car out again.

 

[1qkfwd]

Hey, I run at Sacramento too! Let me know the next time you go out, I need an excuse to take my car out again.

We've met Dave. I ran my awd at BOTI a couple yrs back, and I was at the last event that you guys all lined up the dsms for a pic. I didn't have my car that day but I'm the one that's all tatted up but arms. I would like to try and get the car ready for the winter warm up. It's all gonna depend on machine work and weather.

 

[black92_tsi_awd]

And if i rebuild it, should i just scribe the line or send it out to get it balanced. It's hard to have so many important decisions/choices at my disposal..

Eh, just scribe the line and reassembled it. I've rebuilt several and beat them pretty bad. Just make sure to use loctite on the nut and torque it properly.

 

[YZFR1]

Eh, just scribe the line and reassembled it. I've rebuilt several and beat them pretty bad. Just make sure to use loctite on the nut and torque it properly.

Thanks for the suggestion man, but unfortunately it wasn't the turbo that was shooting oil. It was the engine

But it is ok, i'm in the process of opening up a blown 2.3L that was sitting in my garage and see if anything could be salvaged from that one. Before that engine blew up it had more than 2500 in mods alone in it.

 

[JohnTSI]

If you have seen better results from different air/water cores...IE...datalogs....PLEASE let me know. I wasn't able to find crap online from people with DSM's with small turbo and air/water cores. And the ones I did find either wouldn't/couldn't share logs or were only guessing at the actual #s.

Reichen's liquid to air doesn't pick up near the temperature you decribed in the 1/4 mile at over twice the power level.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Reichen's liquid to air doesn't pick up near the temperature you decribed in the 1/4 mile at over twice the power level.

You should see the logs from the last time out w/ buddies 37r car w/ spearco liquid ic. At 40psi boost we went from 41*f on the line to 156*f at the traps. That's with a 12x10x4.5 spearco. He bought a frozenboost core that is 9x9x9 to test out next. If it works out well, I might get the same for my small turbo car and mount it in the cab hanging from the dash bar.

 

[Steve93Talon]

You should see the logs from the last time out w/ buddies 37r car w/ spearco liquid ic. At 40psi boost we went from 41*f on the line to 156*f at the traps. That's with a 12x10x4.5 spearco. He bought a frozenboost core that is 9x9x9 to test out next. If it works out well, I might get the same for my small turbo car and mount it in the cab hanging from the dash bar.

I'd question the reservoir size and how much ice was packed into it before the pass. I also found that when you turn on the pump had a big effect on how well the sub-ambient cooling lasted. You want to start circulating it just before the run, but give it enough time to exchange the heat out of the core. Run it too long and you start pulling up the water temps before the pass. We were running a Precision core that was about 10 x 9 x 4.5 and with a 20g at 30psi, we were seeing about 42F at the line and crossing the traps at around 65F on a 90+ degree day. It gained 3mph over a pretty large FMIC. On the street with regular water, it NEVER got more than 5 degrees over ambient. We used a 5 gallon cell for a reservoir, an OEM Ford Lightning water pump, and a honda Goldwing radiator for the heat exchanger.

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[Nate Crisman]

I'd question the reservoir size and how much ice was packed into it before the pass. I also found that when you turn on the pump had a big effect on how well the sub-ambient cooling lasted. You want to start circulating it just before the run, but give it enough time to exchange the heat out of the core. Run it too long and you start pulling up the water temps before the pass. We were running a Precision core that was about 10 x 9 x 4.5 and with a 20g at 30psi, we were seeing about 42F at the line and crossing the traps at around 65F on a 90+ degree day. It gained 3mph over a pretty large FMIC. On the street with regular water, it NEVER got more than 5 degrees over ambient. We used a 5 gallon cell for a reservoir, an OEM Ford Lightning water pump, and a honda Goldwing radiator for the heat exchanger.

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I'll see if I can russle up a photo of the current core, but it's comparable in size/shape to the one on the pic you posted. We use a 3 gallon reservoir mounted behind the drivers headlight with about 1 gallon of water and two full bags of ice every run. Last time we ran it, ambient temps were in the 50's and the car has a 4" cold ram air intake. Using the same lightning/cobra ford oem intercooler pump you guys are. Each run, we still have a tiny bit of ice left in the reservoir apron returning to the pits. Nelson normally turns the pump on as he's passing the burnout box about 20 seconds before the run starts, we see between 38 and 41*F on the starting line that day.

Screenshot of the catalog from Nelson's GVR4's 9.6 run...cursor is on the very end of run...note the AIT!

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Since we have ice left, I doubt it's reservoir capacity or ice quantity. It's either inadequate pump flow or the intercooler core itself is insufficient for 40psi of GT37R.

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^^^ this is the intercooler he bought to try out next, hopefully on the 20th. it's 9" cube core vs the current core that is 4.5" thick. Hopefully it will work better with nearly double the flow path and double the heat transfer area.

If Nelson's data comes out good, Im likely going to buy the same core ($500) with end tanks like the photo below and mount it "under the dash" inside the car. Run two IC pipes through the firewall. It would make the car easier to work on to get the whole intercooler system out from under hood.

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[9!'clipseDOHC]

New personal best for me! I went from a 14.1 @ 113 to a 13.1 @ 110 with the addition of Hoosier DOT drag radials. You can read more here and see the time slip data and the video: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/418713-9-eclipse-n-t-turbo-fwd-street-drag-autox.html#post152785687. Stock unported 14b, FWD, full interior (even the jack).

 

[1qkfwd]

New personal best for me! I went from a 14.1 @ 113 to a 13.1 @ 110 with the addition of Hoosier DOT drag radials. You can read more here and see the time slip data and the video: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/418713-9-eclipse-n-t-turbo-fwd-street-drag-autox.html#post152785687. Stock unported 14b, FWD, full interior (even the jack).

That's a pretty good jump in time. Those 60' can go lower. The mph is still good for 12s. Any plans to lighten it up?