The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

But they look exactly like the Talons and Eclipses...

Do you guys get drunk on corn juice out there in California too? Or do you just sniff the tailpipe of your FlexFuel Chevy Tahoe?

Talons and Eclipses look exactly like Lasers? The silhouette might be the same but by no means do they look EXACTLY the same. A Laser RST may be comparable in looks to an Eclipse GS, but's that's it. No spoilers, no ground effects....and my first one had steel wheels with hubcaps, ever seen that on a turbo Talon or Eclipse?

 

[TSimage]

Do you guys get drunk on corn juice out there in California too? Or do you just sniff the tailpipe of your FlexFuel Chevy Tahoe?

Talons and Eclipses look exactly like Lasers? The silhouette might be the same but by no means do they look EXACTLY the same. A Laser RST may be comparable in looks to an Eclipse GS, but's that's it. No spoilers, no ground effects....and my first one had steel wheels with hubcaps, ever seen that on a turbo Talon or Eclipse?

Or possibly you guys don't have proper optical health care out there in Conn, but If someone thinks a DSM isn't a sleeper, they wont be fooled by a Laser. And if they are fooled by the Laser in comparison to a regular DSM ok.. But compared to a 4 door box I dunno...

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VS

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I aint buyin that one ..

 

[Phil1320]

Or possibly you guys don't have proper optical health care out there in Conn, but If someone thinks a DSM isn't a sleeper, they wont be fooled by a Laser. And if they are fooled by the Laser in comparison to a regular DSM ok.. But compared to a 4 door box I dunno...


I aint buyin that one ..

Come to think of it, I'm past due for my check up! Still.....

I'm speaking solely of the '90-'91 Laser RST FWD cars.....all of the fast FWD 14b cars are just that. I'm not talking about the 1gb version of the Laser, or the AWD versions with the side skirts and some that came with rear spoilers, or GOLD editions or any of that.

The VR4's have spoilers, side skirts etc that give them away. And the "VR4" emblem would raise question. I don't think 4-door = sleeper. Now if you pull the rear spoiler, emblems, and body kit off the VR4, then you've got a sleeper.
A VR4 is as much of a sleeper as an M3 or M5 if you know your cars. That's just it, alot of people have no idea what the VR4 is, contributing to it's sleeper status, but on pure aesthetics, nah.

The only reason you "ain't buyin that one," is that you're spending too much money on corn juice

 

[hubz91talontsi]

I was just taking another look at some dyno sheets, and i noticed pneumo's car is only car in the 11-12's that doesnt make more tq then hp. He was running a 9:1 motor correct? Did that smim really kill that much torque?

Phil do you have a dyno sheet?

Id also like to put out im working with someone on trying to get some titanium axles made. Still haven't talked about a price yet. Just want to know if anyone is serious enough to do a group buy. I know its hard without a determined price. But, obviously it will be costly. Will save 7-8lbs of rotating weight

 

[Phil1320]

I was just taking another look at some dyno sheets, and i noticed pneumo's car is only car in the 11-12's that doesnt make more tq then hp. He was running a 9:1 motor correct? Did that smim really kill that much torque?

Phil do you have a dyno sheet?

Id also like to put out im working with someone on trying to get some titanium axles made. Still haven't talked about a price yet. Just want to know if anyone is serious enough to do a group buy. I know its hard without a determined price. But, obviously it will be costly. Will save 7-8lbs of rotating weight

His best 14b pass of 11.51 was on a FMIC. Not sure about his torque numbers but he dynos on the Mustang dyno. Personally I think the Dynojet torque numbers may be a bit inflated due to it's design. I have dyno sheets but I will have to find them. I have dyno sheets from Dynojets and from Dynapacks.

I was 295 HP and 337 TQ back in '07, uncorrected that's 304HP and 348TQ. Years before that with less mods I produced 304 HP and 308 TQ on the Dynapacks. Lots of people discount the Dynapack numbers which I could give s*** about, they are still relative to me. I was never really into how much power I could make, it was just about having as good a tune as I could have using an AFC...how funny is that. Now, it WILL be all about making the most power I can---without going outside the box with my set up, i.e. no E85, no air/water I/C--unless someone wants to donate it. Stuff like that. My car will always keep a pretty basic set-up no matter how fast any of you all go. I'm looking to be done chasing records here pretty soon. If I can't hit 10's, so be it. If I can't best Bucci's 10.84, so be it. I've held the record in the past...that was my original goal, which was met. It was never about the exact ET, just whatever was good enough to put me in that #1 spot which I think I held for about 8 months.

I'm happy my 11.49 was the quickest 14b pass in 2009 and my 11.62 was the quickest pass in 2010.....something else to be proud of and another thing to toss on my 14b resume'. I've had a good run, no regrets.

I really don't have much left to offer honestly. To spend thousands upon thousands to try to beat a record that will be near impossible to beat with my AWD talon is bordering on just plain foolish.

I've got one record that most likely will never be broken: Quickest and Fastest Stock Original Engine & Turbo DSM......I'm more proud of that than I ever would be beating the 10.84 pass with so much money and so many mods into the car.

So, what's up in 2011?

My only goal is to go out and beat my personal best and put the car in the realm where a rollbar is required. If I can meet that goal then I'll see what's left, if anything, in the car, and in me. Because I can assure you there won't be anything left in my pockets to go too much further.......

........but I do accept donations..........

My good friend Bob just donated a ported E3 7cm turbine housing to my cause...thanks again buddy!!!! So, there's one thing I can scratch off my list for 2011.

So, titanium axles...probably not......they will be stupid money........that's for sure.......not tested.......so once you get them and test em out with all that crazy power you're gonna be making......we can go from there. Even then.....you're better off just doing a brake man brake set up.......

 

[SBstar]

Sounds good Phil. I think you might be surprised by the mods you add this year, I'm looking forward to the results! There comes a point in time where you realize someone out there is going to invest way more money and time into something then you can and you have to be happy with what you've achieved. That's why my goal is still 11.641 or better on the 14b, that was the goal I set 3+ years ago and the official record is just getting further out of reach, might as well go for my initial goal and be happy when/if I get there.

No offense but investing in titanium axles on a 14b setup sounds rediculous, but I suppose they'll be ready for a real setup if needed. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the 14b stuff used to be about us budget guys just trying to go fast, now it's become crazy!

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Maybe not tested for a talon.. Titanium axles have been tested in other platforms.. Supra's, and hondas I know for sure. They probably won't be more than the dds stage 5 kit. Won't hold that kind of power however.

I was interested in a dyno sheet to compare to dave's. His car was making power pretty late, but probably by design.

Well, I don't recall axles ever being one with a turbocharger. I'm pretty sure you can run them with whatever turbo you'd like. Lol. Most people use them in roadracing for the fact they are only a fraction stronger than factory.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

So, what's up in 2011?

For me, get my 14.3 into the 13's (street tires, 14b, FWD, full interior). Since my last run I've. Upgraded to a FMIC, a slightly wider front tire, and fixed some boost leaks. Plus v3lite and injectors will be on the car in the next month or so After that 2 slicks and hopefully 12's. I think those are pretty conservative goals and are well within my reach. I'm very excited for 2011!

 

[SBstar]

Maybe not tested for a talon.. Titanium axles have been tested in other platforms.. Supra's, and hondas I know for sure. They probably won't be more than the dds stage 5 kit. Won't hold that kind of power however.

I was interested in a dyno sheet to compare to dave's. His car was making power pretty late, but probably by design.

Well, I don't recall axles ever being one with a turbocharger. I'm pretty sure you can run them with whatever turbo you'd like. Lol. Most people use them in roadracing for the fact they are only a fraction stronger than factory.

Don't get me wrong, more power to you if you think you can afford it. I however, actually have a life outside my dsm ! It's none of my business but I can't help but wonder how old you are. Overkill comes to mind, but hey, if you can do all those things, meaning afford to do them all, go for it. Just seems like a waste on a 14b setup, but I suppose that won't be the last turbo you run

For me, get my 14.3 into the 13's (street tires, 14b, FWD, full interior). Since my last run I've. Upgraded to a FMIC, a slightly wider front tire, and fixed some boost leaks. Plus v3lite and injectors will be on the car in the next month or so After that 2 slicks and hopefully 12's. I think those are pretty conservative goals and are well within my reach. I'm very excited for 2011!

I think those goals are well attainable for ya. It's going to be all about finding traction! FWD sucks, but if you can get it to hook you've already seen it actually can have advantages. Get a decent tune and the rest will be driving.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Like I said. I don't recall turbo's and axles to be one piece. My profile clearly states my age last time I checked. I posted it here first to see if anyone was interested. Obviously not. How about titanium wheel studs or axle nuts? Probably not. See, I already know how this thread works.

 

[SBstar]

Yeah you're obviously taking me wrong, oh well no skin off my nose. All I meant by the age comment is you seem like a typical military guy who suddenly has money and feels like they can afford anything. I was hoping I'm wrong and that you're stable financially. I buried myself under a few dsm parts early on and ended up with a part out to afford making something out of my life, so I'm in no way judging you. Obviously you're not me and again you're probably going to take all that wrong too.

The titanium lightweight parts would be awesome on any setup. But obviously doesn't fit into 99% of the budgets of people in this thread who are running the 14b for fun, and for budget reasons. If we could afford parts like these we probably would go with them! I hope you come out with all this cool stuff and show us how valuable they are.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Hah military and making money.. You're funny. I made twice as much before i joined. Im not trying to take anything the wrong way, but i get questioned for everything i do. Lol. You don't have to worry about my money trust me. I wouldn't have a 89 2jz supra in the garage with twin greddy 18g's. Wanna see what the new TE37 SL's look like on it? Trust me i've been around the block. I have zero debt other than student loans.

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[SBstar]

Nice good for you, looks like you've got things figured out, makes me feel better about ya.

Now back to the 14b stuff. Lightweight parts are full of win anywhere. Especially rotating mass. Let us know how it all works out.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Back to 14b Found this pic of my brother street tuning his aluminum rod car.

Anyway dsmlink calculated numbers are 350hp 399tq. 14b ftw 28-31lbs/min

I have actual numbers but shh =)

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[DJ23GSX]

Hah military and making money.. You're funny. I made twice as much before i joined. Im not trying to take anything the wrong way, but i get questioned for everything i do. Lol. You don't have to worry about my money trust me. I wouldn't have a 89 2jz supra in the garage with twin greddy 18g's. Wanna see what the new TE37 SL's look like on it? Trust me i've been around the block. I have zero debt other than student loans.

First off nice supra I remember way back when I was 20 years old . I had a great job making good money and lived at home. I spent $20k on car audio and performance parts for a few of my vehicles and thats not even including the price of the cars either . Now don't get me wrong it was a blast and I had a lot of fun at that time but now that I have a family and a mortgage of my own I look back and regret wasting all that money. Just thought I'd share that with you cause I'd hate see someone else go down that road. Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not bashing you at all its just a little food for thought before you go dumping thousands on parts that might only make a marginal difference. Either way good luck with your build.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

I know exactly what youre saying. =) More food for thought. Shearer has made a foward facing manifold for a stock turbo. Someone beat me to it =(.

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[bastarddsm]

I think a straight methanol setup will be key to making BIG power on a 14b.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

A 14b doesn't make

BIG power

=)

 

[Nate Crisman]

I think a straight methanol setup will be key to making BIG power on a 14b.

Already on it. I ran 38% methanol last season on my 16g car last year mixed into E85 (which will get a 14b for record attempts sometime this season). This year I'v gone up to 1650cc injectors and plan to run straight methanol. going to start out with a 75/25 mix of Meth/Eth and tune from there as I don't think the 1650's will be enough for the E3 16g on 100% methanol. The 14b on the other hand, might be fine at 100% meth with the 1650s.

But frankly, the difference between 100% methanol and a 75%meth / 25% E85 is likely pretty minimal. Im planning to run without any intercooler as well, saving about 55lb of aluminum and water weight.

 

[Phil1320]

"Sounds good Phil. I think you might be surprised by the mods you add this year, I'm looking forward to the results! There comes a point in time where you realize someone out there is going to invest way more money and time into something then you can and you have to be happy with what you've achieved. That's why my goal is still 11.641 or better on the 14b, that was the goal I set 3+ years ago and the official record is just getting further out of reach, might as well go for my initial goal and be happy when/if I get there." - SBstar

Thanks....let's hope so. I generally downplay(opposite of Hubz)what I've got going on. I like to come out and talk about what I did, not what I'm gonna do. There's more going on than you think, I'm just tending not to come up here and spill my guts about it as much. It's cool to set your sights high....and set goals for sure, but at this point it's not only tough for me to picture going much quicker, it's gonna be tough to do period I think. Either way, we will see what happens. And, yes, there comes that time.....and it has come in the past, and generally it's the support I receive up here that keeps me going.

11.64 is a good goal. Beat that and you're right there with me and Dave. That's pretty strong, I'm sure you'll be able to do it. I definitely want to see you in the 11's this year...that would be killer. When I started chasing the record Marc Hallman still had it at 12.57, then it changed hands a few times and finally ended up with Leon's 12.053 being the number to beat, so that's what I aimed for.....and did. So, ironic you are chasing Leon's current best number....

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Phil youre car can't go much faster because its a aerodynamic disaster. I think you need to go to the texas mile or atleast look at some pictures. With 30 more horsepower and aero i don't have a doubt that you'll run a 10.9.

 

[Phil1320]

Maybe not tested for a talon.. Titanium axles have been tested in other platforms.. Supra's, and hondas I know for sure. They probably won't be more than the dds stage 5 kit. Won't hold that kind of power however.

I was interested in a dyno sheet to compare to dave's. His car was making power pretty late, but probably by design.

Well, I don't recall axles ever being one with a turbocharger. I'm pretty sure you can run them with whatever turbo you'd like. Lol. Most people use them in roadracing for the fact they are only a fraction stronger than factory.

you be the ginnie pig man....


I'll get my sheet up here when I find it......

For me, get my 14.3 into the 13's (street tires, 14b, FWD, full interior). Since my last run I've. Upgraded to a FMIC, a slightly wider front tire, and fixed some boost leaks. Plus v3lite and injectors will be on the car in the next month or so After that 2 slicks and hopefully 12's. I think those are pretty conservative goals and are well within my reach. I'm very excited for 2011!

Sounds like a good plan with really attainable goals. Nice stuff you've added too...the slicks will be cool to try out as well. I hope you hit the goals! Good luck!

Hah military and making money.. You're funny. I made twice as much before i joined. Im not trying to take anything the wrong way, but i get questioned for everything i do. Lol. You don't have to worry about my money trust me. I wouldn't have a 89 2jz supra in the garage with twin greddy 18g's. Wanna see what the new TE37 SL's look like on it? Trust me i've been around the block. I have zero debt other than student loans.

Dude, I don't know what the hell happend here and I don't want to get into it much, but, now, I understand your mentality with POWER, POWER, POWER, being involved with Supras. I'll leave it there about that. And do me a favor, don't clutter this thread with pictures of your Supra, I for one couldn't give a crap about those cars or your wheels, or your money. I'm borderline on having the mods remove the pics as it is. If I want to see Japanese Mustangs I'll head over to the supraforums. Thanks!

Back to 14b Found this pic of my brother street tuning his aluminum rod car.


I have actual numbers but shh =)

Not really showing much here, except the nice stock sidemount....

....! You have actual numbers

I think a straight methanol setup will be key to making BIG power on a 14b.

Could be....I'll be sticking with SMALL power......

Phil youre car can't go much faster because its a aerodynamic disaster. I think you need to go to the texas mile or atleast look at some pictures. With 30 more horsepower and aero i don't have a doubt that you'll run a 10.9.

So, it is....oh well......I trap 113-116.....don't really think it's a big deal. Yes, I've thought about front bumper mods and undertrays and all that extra stuff. It's just not high on my priority list. Sorry.

If you want to finance a trip to the Texas Mile with some of that cash you got, I'm down, otherwise, you'll never see me in Texas unless I'm there for an F1 race. I've seen the cars that run there and some of the things they do. With limited power, yes in the standing mile the aero surely will help top speed. And, it might in the 1/4, but nowhere near what is does in the mile.

I will entertain some aero mods once I've got the car back together and have it dyoed and make some shakedown runs. Until then, I'd rather the car look like a '90 Eagle Talon then something that came out of the movie TRON......

....thanks for the thought that I might hit 10.90's.....sounds good to me.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Well, you can ask a mod to delete them. I only posted them because i would have gotten flamed if i didn't.

I'd rather the car look like a '90 Eagle Talon then something that came out of the movie TRON......

Making the nose aerodynamically better would make it less of a eagle talon?

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[Phil1320]

Well, you can ask a mod to delete them. I only posted them because i would have gotten flamed if i didn't.

Making the nose aerodynamically better would make it less of a eagle talon?

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if you say so.

no less of a talon, just a talon that might not be so aesthetically pleasing any longer...

Bottom line to each his own.....but, I'm just not at that level I don't think, however the clear plexi on the evo definitely makes it less obvious than some others I've seen. My current front bumper cover is pretty cut up and yes, making that cut didn't help my aero, and I will be running an I/C that won't need that area cut away anymore...but, to paint another cover etc. is just money I don't want to spend at this time......as I've said before, I really don't want to make the car an all out DRAG race car. I think I've taken it far enough really. I don't have anywhere near the time now that I've had in the past to dedicate to the car. I wish I could work on my car day in and day out in a heated/air conditioned environment without budget and time constraints....but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. So, my LIMITED TIME, EFFORT, CASH, approach is what it will be. So, nothing will be maximized on my set up: POWER, AERO, SEAT TIME. It' been this way for at least the last 5 years. So, what I'm able to eek out of it will be it. And with 4 track visits in the last 2 seasons, to be where I am in my opinion is far beyond my expectations and has landed me in a pretty good spot.


I appreciate everyone's comments and recommendations up here. I've had several people really take interest in my efforts and offer up ideas that I would like to try out.....but haven't yet....and it really boils down to the small amount of time I can dedicate. It's really not anything more than that. If I had more time to dedicate I could be trying out these suggestions, such as Speed Density that was suggested last year. There's alot left on the table even in the basic category. So, for me to start thinking too far out of the box is just not realistic. Hell, I've got so much that I can take advatage of in the engine mod dept. that the way the car sits with no aero mods at all it should be quicker than 11.49. Once I've realized that, I would think about some aero......but with an FMIC it's not like I can take full advantage either way, however, a 1/4 mile is so short the FMIC be fully concealed may not hinder performance....only one way to find out I guess....

 

[91stocker]

if you say so.

no less of a talon, just a talon that might not be so aesthetically pleasing any longer...

Says the guy that plastered every inch of a beautiful car with stickers

Sorry had to..