The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[TSimage]

I've witnessed this car in action and saw the 11.4 run first hand. Dave came out to the track with the smallest turbo on his DSM and ran the fastest time out of all of them.

Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive. Anyone who has seen Daves car knows its nothing close to a tin can and he drove this think a few hrs back and forth to the track. No trailer queens here. Dave has been my main inspiration for a long time.

On a side note, we are trying to get my Raven build ready for the beginning of next season Dave so we will be calling you to check it out bro. I'll be running a bolt on 62-1 before I head for the s400sx 75mm. You'll be hearing from us. Eddie is chasing gremlins and I'm sure you'll be the first guy on the list when he's done.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah Phil the car can be viewed as a little extreme because most 14b applications are based on going fast for cheap, but I want to literally demolish the current 14b record. I tell customers who want their engines built that it has to be all out or not at all. We will be doing a lot testing and experimenting with different camshafts and heads this season. We hope to get it damn near perfect by the ShootOut, we really want to wait to reveal our best time when we are at the SO and make some runs to back up the time.

I was purely joking around! But, I hear what you're saying, if you can go out fully armed, why not do that. You have a short term, but, huge goal. It will be interesting to hear what combination serves you best. I understand if you don't want to reveal your numbers til the shootout, keep everyone guessing where you might stand. Whelp, again, it will be nice to see you hit 10.60 or better, that would be nuts. It just sucks that we all will have to wait til the later part of the year to hear of your progress. OK, go get it

Quote of the 14b thread!

Pneumo your car is a source of amazement for me as well, hitting 11's with so many parts left stock is bewildering. I still have the photo's you posted of the engine bay from back then. I try to save all that kind of stuff. Overall I think your car truly showed how much can be done through tuning properly.

True, true.......then I guess my car truly showed how much can be done with no tuning You know, I honestly wish I was as savvy as some of these guys, pneumo, spoonman with a shop and such to boot. I'm just not that guy. I suppose I could be so far ahead of where I am if I was. Bummer. I guess I need my own 14b team of engineers. I guess I'm more of a "you guys build it, and I'll drive it" kinda guy these days. Although, other than me, myself, and I, the only other person to have a hand in it is Dave, further exhibiting my point.

Thanks! I'm still amazed too! I hit 11.69 with stock injectors, stock intercooler, stock IC piping, and other stuff. I'm sure if I pushed it I could've dropped the time a little more with those mods, but I had upgrades sitting on the shelf and the season was coming to an end, so I swapped those parts right after the 11.69 run.

Most definitely impressive, correct me if I'm wrong though, this was your upgraded/built engine right? Just trying to clarify?

I've witnessed this car in action and saw the 11.4 run first hand. Dave came out to the track with the smallest turbo on his DSM and ran the fastest time out of all of them.

Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive. Anyone who has seen Daves car knows its nothing close to a tin can and he drove this think a few hrs back and forth to the track. No trailer queens here. Dave has been my main inspiration for a long time.

On a side note, we are trying to get my Raven build ready for the beginning of next season Dave so we will be calling you to check it out bro. I'll be running a bolt on 62-1 before I head for the s400sx 75mm. You'll be hearing from us. Eddie is chasing gremlins and I'm sure you'll be the first guy on the list when he's done.

11.4 run? ~11.51~

No doubt, Dave's car has run impressive numbers on the 14b. I'm glad he's an inspiration to you. I have a few of those guys out there too. And as stated elsewhere, he himself is a great part of that effort in that he has not only the ability to tune his own machine, he has the ability to do it run after run at the strip, which enables him to see almost immediately if whatever changes he makes work. That is a serious advantage compared to someone like me that can push a few buttons on an AFC and hope I made the right adjustment, or I need to get on a dyno to prove it. Dave is as close to a one man show I think that I know of in this respect. It is admirable. I wish I had his skills.

My car is a tin can, whatever you want to call it. I have been pulling weight for years. I finally decided that the car was no longer fun for road use, and was contradicting my goals so I pulled it off the road and took the "tin can" approach to the next level. I don't see how my runs can not be considered to be as equally impressive as Dave's. Now, this is me tooting my own horn, because I feel pretty strongly about this. I'm not sure you know all the details of my car vs. his and there are too many to list. But a few would be:

I'm running 11.4 with less than 300 HP at the wheels
My engine is 100% original with balance shafts and stock 7.8:1 comp ratio
My lb. per HP ratio rivals some of the worlds most expensive supercars.

And, before I took the car to where it is now, I can tell you that I've driven to and from the strip numerous times running countless 12.0-12.2 slips and that was years ago. So, I've been there and done that, so I do respect that about Dave's car.



"Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive."

"its nothing close to a tin can"

I hear you loud and clear.

 

[TSimage]

11.4 run? ~11.51~

No doubt, Dave's car has run impressive numbers on the 14b. I'm glad he's an inspiration to you. I have a few of those guys out there too. And as stated elsewhere, he himself is a great part of that effort in that he has not only the ability to tune his own machine, he has the ability to do it run after run at the strip, which enables him to see almost immediately if whatever changes he makes work. That is a serious advantage compared to someone like me that can push a few buttons on an AFC and hope I made the right adjustment, or I need to get on a dyno to prove it. Dave is as close to a one man show I think that I know of in this respect. It is admirable. I wish I had his skills.

My car is a tin can, whatever you want to call it. I have been pulling weight for years. I finally decided that the car was no longer fun for road use, and was contradicting my goals so I pulled it off the road and took the "tin can" approach to the next level. I don't see how my runs can not be considered to be as equally impressive as Dave's. Now, this is me tooting my own horn, because I feel pretty strongly about this. I'm not sure you know all the details of my car vs. his and there are too many to list. But a few would be:

I'm running 11.4 with less than 300 HP at the wheels
My engine is 100% original with balance shafts and stock 7.8:1 comp ratio
My lb. per HP ratio rivals some of the worlds most expensive supercars.

And, before I took the car to where it is now, I can tell you that I've driven to and from the strip numerous times running countless 12.0-12.2 slips and that was years ago. So, I've been there and done that, so I do respect that about Dave's car.



"Your 14b "record" has by far been the most impressive."

"its nothing close to a tin can"

I hear you loud and clear.

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My comment had NO bearing or link on your car bro, I have no idea why you are so defensive but its Sunday, a day of rest.. Please allow time to remove the sand from your vagina. My post was 100% about giving props to Dave for doing something not even the Goodwill car achieved. My point was to imagine if his car was tin canned out how fast it would have been, I have no doubt he could go for the record and take it if he wants, and thats with out the Haltec ecu and water to air that the GW project needed. This is what makes his car more impressive to me, and thats from a personal view because just like people agree its more impressive to build a fast car on a budget, even more impressive than that is to build a fast STREET car that can do the same which has and will always be my goal. I've been both routes, I just prefer one over the other due to extra difficulty and the ability to cruise unknown on the street toying with people.

And he has been back and forth to the track with a mid 11s car, you haven't been there done that, I've been back and forth with a 10s dd car, I HAVE been there done that and can assure you that it takes a lot of confidence to have a car that fast that you can trust on long road trips. And I have rarely seen Dave pull out the lap top after runs, actually I have never seen him do that. He checks his logger and hits a few AFC buttons just as you stated and tries the next race.

Again, my post wasn't directed towards you nor had anything to do with your car. I didn't know this entire thread was about you.. The last few post were directed towards Dave and I was just about to PM him about stuff and figured I'd throw it in here as well as shedding some light on how impressive his accomplishments have been.

This man was dogging mid 10s runs on a regular ancient GT35 non ball bearing turbo on a junkyard block. This was the same time I was toying with my 35R trying to get it into the 10s on only pump in a street car. We both had some great goals we got to accomplish together. Once again, Dave's probably my biggest inspiration in the game, I've gone faster but the way he has done it is beyond me and one day I hope to have his knowledge to apply to my loftier goals. He's a very meek man and he never toots his own horn so I figured I'd ring the bell for him.

Once again, I have no idea why you felt the need to post all of that. I wasn't referring to your car, I really don't even know the specifics of your build for me to even comment on it but regardless of that if you are proud of what you have accomplished f'k anyone else who has something negative to say about it. There will always be people who prefer things a different way. I can definitely respect what you have accomplished. My achievements with my TO4B V trim and my 35r build were all on a 100% bone stock motor from head to toe. 7.8 compression and all, and a majority of the people in this section of the board have a power to weight ratio that would obliterate most super cars, that's the name of the game when it comes to racing. Then again there is no super car made for drag racing, when you can out turn one in a DSM I'll be greatly impressed. No I'm not knocking your accomplishments and I'm not sure if you're upset because you feel you accomplished more than Dave, I dunno. But as I said, to some people various aspects of building a car make it more impressive. There is no doubt in my mind after seeing Dave's logs that if his 14b wouldn't have gone to sh*ts that he would be even deeper into the 11s with nothing else touched on the car. Then take into account the hundreds of lbs of weight he could save on the car as well as the fact he runs street tires, not drag/street slicks, but straight up street tires, it just seems like a great feat.

So again, I wasn't bashing your car, nor discrediting what you have accomplished, albeit with the help of Dave anyways, but I was simply giving him credit in a thread dedicated to 14b drag cars, if I know it was a thread about Phils car I would have maybe worded it differently. Oh and don't get overly offended by the video, its called a joke, lighten up a little bro. The world isn't out to get you my friend.

 

[pneumo]

Yes, I had a fully built engine and fresh tranny when I ran 11.69 on stock inj, IC, etc.
I wish I ran an 11.4! It was my goal to do an 11.4, but I didn't quite get there. ...yet...

My efforts were mostly my own, I'd like to claim all of the credit except I had some help from Full Function ( FFtec Motor Sport ) They helped me out with a very nice 5 point cromoly roll bar with a swingout door bar, and they've always been helpful with tips, advice and plenty of go-fast experience. Otherwise I built the engine, built the trans, found the right parts, did all of the tuning, eprom changes, come up with new ideas, choose the suspension spring rates and damper settings, setting the alignment, etc. I didn't put the car on a dyno until after the season ended, and that was just out of curiosity. I didn't have a wideband in the car yet, and I was suprised that the AF ratio on the dyno chart was very close to optimum! Sometimes I get lucky, I guess.

I should give some credit to all the informative threads here on Tuners and other DSM sites. Without this shared knowledge I'd be nowhere.

As far as someone 'demolishing' the current 14b record, isn't that what Joe Bucci did? Thanks to him we now have separate records for AWD and FWD on a 14b. 10.841 without nitrous is an awesome time! Has there been enough advancements in the past few years to allow someone to break that time? I think so, but someone needs to step up and put all the right pieces together in one big effort.

 

[Phil1320]

My comment had NO bearing or link on your car bro, I have no idea why you are so defensive but its Sunday, a day of rest.. Please allow time to remove the sand from your vagina. My post was 100% about giving props to Dave for doing something not even the Goodwill car achieved. My point was to imagine if his car was tin canned out how fast it would have been, I have no doubt he could go for the record and take it if he wants, and thats with out the Haltec ecu and water to air that the GW project needed. This is what makes his car more impressive to me, and thats from a personal view because just like people agree its more impressive to build a fast car on a budget, even more impressive than that is to build a fast STREET car that can do the same which has and will always be my goal. I've been both routes, I just prefer one over the other due to extra difficulty and the ability to cruise unknown on the street toying with people.

And he has been back and forth to the track with a mid 11s car, you haven't been there done that, I've been back and forth with a 10s dd car, I HAVE been there done that and can assure you that it takes a lot of confidence to have a car that fast that you can trust on long road trips. And I have rarely seen Dave pull out the lap top after runs, actually I have never seen him do that. He checks his logger and hits a few AFC buttons just as you stated and tries the next race.

Again, my post wasn't directed towards you nor had anything to do with your car. I didn't know this entire thread was about you.. The last few post were directed towards Dave and I was just about to PM him about stuff and figured I'd throw it in here as well as shedding some light on how impressive his accomplishments have been.

This man was dogging mid 10s runs on a regular ancient GT35 non ball bearing turbo on a junkyard block. This was the same time I was toying with my 35R trying to get it into the 10s on only pump in a street car. We both had some great goals we got to accomplish together. Once again, Dave's probably my biggest inspiration in the game, I've gone faster but the way he has done it is beyond me and one day I hope to have his knowledge to apply to my loftier goals. He's a very meek man and he never toots his own horn so I figured I'd ring the bell for him.

Once again, I have no idea why you felt the need to post all of that. I wasn't referring to your car, I really don't even know the specifics of your build for me to even comment on it but regardless of that if you are proud of what you have accomplished f'k anyone else who has something negative to say about it. There will always be people who prefer things a different way. I can definitely respect what you have accomplished. My achievements with my TO4B V trim and my 35r build were all on a 100% bone stock motor from head to toe. 7.8 compression and all, and a majority of the people in this section of the board have a power to weight ratio that would obliterate most super cars, that's the name of the game when it comes to racing. Then again there is no super car made for drag racing, when you can out turn one in a DSM I'll be greatly impressed. No I'm not knocking your accomplishments and I'm not sure if you're upset because you feel you accomplished more than Dave, I dunno. But as I said, to some people various aspects of building a car make it more impressive. There is no doubt in my mind after seeing Dave's logs that if his 14b wouldn't have gone to sh*ts that he would be even deeper into the 11s with nothing else touched on the car. Then take into account the hundreds of lbs of weight he could save on the car as well as the fact he runs street tires, not drag/street slicks, but straight up street tires, it just seems like a great feat.

So again, I wasn't bashing your car, nor discrediting what you have accomplished, albeit with the help of Dave anyways, but I was simply giving him credit in a thread dedicated to 14b drag cars, if I know it was a thread about Phils car I would have maybe worded it differently. Oh and don't get overly offended by the video, its called a joke, lighten up a little bro. The world isn't out to get you my friend.

Fair enough. In no way do I think my accomplishments are better than any, but are noteworthy. For some reason, it seems to me that your posts are directed toward me, so apparently I'm wrong, that's cool. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, I had a fully built engine and fresh tranny when I ran 11.69 on stock inj, IC, etc.
I wish I ran an 11.4! It was my goal to do an 11.4, but I didn't quite get there. ...yet...

My efforts were mostly my own, I'd like to claim all of the credit except I had some help from Full Function ( FFtec Motor Sport ) They helped me out with a very nice 5 point cromoly roll bar with a swingout door bar, and they've always been helpful with tips, advice and plenty of go-fast experience. Otherwise I built the engine, built the trans, found the right parts, did all of the tuning, eprom changes, come up with new ideas, choose the suspension spring rates and damper settings, setting the alignment, etc. I didn't put the car on a dyno until after the season ended, and that was just out of curiosity. I didn't have a wideband in the car yet, and I was suprised that the AF ratio on the dyno chart was very close to optimum! Sometimes I get lucky, I guess.

I should give some credit to all the informative threads here on Tuners and other DSM sites. Without this shared knowledge I'd be nowhere.

As far as someone 'demolishing' the current 14b record, isn't that what Joe Bucci did? Thanks to him we now have separate records for AWD and FWD on a 14b. 10.841 without nitrous is an awesome time! Has there been enough advancements in the past few years to allow someone to break that time? I think so, but someone needs to step up and put all the right pieces together in one big effort.

Well that's pretty cool for sure. Awesome stuff Dave. really, as always. If I take it any further at all, I'm sure it won't be all my own doing. I don't know much about tuning at all.

Joe sure did knock it out of the park, and the pure reality that it will be nearly impossible to match his race weight in an AWD platform is one thing that makes this a serious feat to beat his number, or even hit 10's. With that, it's going to take alot of power, more than anyone has ever made on the 14b, plus superior driving to make it happen. It's beatable, but it may take another FWD car to do it. As I've said elsewhere, I think his 1/8 mile ET is beatable in an AWD, the 1/4 will be alot harder.

We will see what all these guys can do next year. As it stands, still, I won't be running at all. So, I've got the popcorn ready, let's see what all you guys can do? I'm done with me on this thread.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL 14B CONTENDERS AND HOPEFULS(newbies) in 2010!

 

[pneumo]

If I take it any further at all, I'm sure it won't be all my own doing. I don't know much about tuning at all.

That's why I put some extra little things in the chip I made for you. I added code that helps keep the tune consistant and that work together with the mods you have on the car. I mean, you went almost 117mph even with the extra rolling resistance of slicks. That's some decent top end.

 

[toofast82]

Phil, have you thought of going to speed density at all through a chip to see if it frees up a little power?
I was always VERY happy with how my car ran on it! The tune always stayed extremely consistent regardless of the temperature

 

[TSimage]

Fair enough. In no way do I think my accomplishments are better than any, but are noteworthy. For some reason, it seems to me that your posts are directed toward me, so apparently I'm wrong, that's cool. Thanks for clarifying.

No worries bro, its all love. I respect anyone whos out there putting in the blood sweat and tears to accomplish their goals. At the end of the day we all share the same passion. No time or reson for any animosity. Lets all just do our part to help te sceen grow.

 

[Phil1320]

That's why I put some extra little things in the chip I made for you. I added code that helps keep the tune consistant and that work together with the mods you have on the car. I mean, you went almost 117mph even with the extra rolling resistance of slicks. That's some decent top end.

That's awesome Dave! I really appreciate it! Actually my 116.85 best was in July before the chip went in, but it was on 15psi in the slicks, if you look at the pic on the cover of the 2010 calendar, you can barely see any wrinkle in the slicks.

My best MPH with the chip was 115.02 on an 11.64 pass. But, the slicks were at 11 psi and if you saw the "blue" links in my "3rd and final round" thread you can see the amount of wrinkle is drastically different with the 4 lb. difference and so the rolling diameter is dramatically decreased. Nonetheless, I like the 94.5 1/8 mile speed. I'm almost more impressed with the 1/8 mile time than the 1/4 at this point.

So, that's how it breaks down, I suppose if I went back out on my 16" with drag radials I could trap in the 117-118 range, but my ET would suffer severely, probably be right back at 12.0

Phil, have you thought of going to speed density at all through a chip to see if it frees up a little power?
I was always VERY happy with how my car ran on it! The tune always stayed extremely consistent regardless of the temperature

I have not personally thought about that, no, but, it is interesting to me for sure. I had the MAF-T and needed the GM MAF but I said screw that and sold the MAF-T. So, I've wondered about the blow-through as people call it, but that's about where it ended.

So, what you're saying is that I could eliminate the 2G MAF and it could still be managed through the EPROM chip and my AFC? No doubt, it's a restriction, so I suppose it may free up some power.

I think of quite a few things, but not that. Biggest one is intercooler choice. I thought I'd just get the ETS kit. While it's a fair price, $900 plus shipping is a big ticket for me, and that type of money almost puts the rollbar in the car, so that's out right now for sure. I have a local guy that will get me a Vibrant core for really cheap and do the fabbing to run it with my existing piping, but that all really has to wait until after the rollbar, no rollbar, no racing.

Thanks for the idea!, and maybe some others can chime in hear including my tuner from the other end of the country.


I welcome all the ideas and this one doesn't "seem" as though it would take too much to facilitate, but I would have some questions such as : Does the MAF plug just hang in limbo? Stuff like that.....

No worries bro, its all love. I respect anyone whos out there putting in the blood sweat and tears to accomplish their goals. At the end of the day we all share the same passion. No time or reson for any animosity. Lets all just do our part to help te sceen grow.

Awesome, true words, sounds good to me

 

[habitatguy187]

I love this thread, really looks like it makes SD worthwhile. - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...op-results.html?highlight=air+filter+pressure

 

[toofast82]

I have not personally thought about that, no, but, it is interesting to me for sure. I had the MAF-T and needed the GM MAF but I said screw that and sold the MAF-T. So, I've wondered about the blow-through as people call it, but that's about where it ended.

So, what you're saying is that I could eliminate the 2G MAF and it could still be managed through the EPROM chip and my AFC? No doubt, it's a restriction, so I suppose it may free up some power.

Thanks for the idea!, and maybe some others can chime in hear including my tuner from the other end of the country.


I welcome all the ideas and this one doesn't "seem" as though it would take too much to facilitate, but I would have some questions such as : Does the MAF plug just hang in limbo? Stuff like that.....

I ran my car in SD form solely off the eprom chip and nothing else.
I used a harness that connects the maf plug to a gm map and iat sensors made by full throttlespeed.
In a situation where you are trying to squeeze everything out of the stock engine and 14b, I think it may possibly help you out.
Hardest part is getting the VE tables in check, which is actually very easy. I used to have a file that probably would have been pretty good for your car, but my VEs changed when I put in cams!
Feel free to PM me about any questions, i'd like to help in anyway I can in this manner.
As a matter of fact i've got a 3bar and the harness for sale as we speak

 

[Phil1320]

I love this thread, really looks like it makes SD worthwhile. - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...op-results.html?highlight=air+filter+pressure

Wow, that's pretty cool, just read the whole thing...thanks for the link!

I ran my car in SD form solely off the eprom chip and nothing else.
I used a harness that connects the maf plug to a gm map and iat sensors made by full throttlespeed.
In a situation where you are trying to squeeze everything out of the stock engine and 14b, I think it may possibly help you out.
Hardest part is getting the VE tables in check, which is actually very easy. I used to have a file that probably would have been pretty good for your car, but my VEs changed when I put in cams!
Feel free to PM me about any questions, i'd like to help in anyway I can in this manner.
As a matter of fact i've got a 3bar and the harness for sale as we speak

No kidding.....Sounds pretty awesome....thanks for the interest and wanting to help me out.....

 

[SBstar]

Doesn't mean much currently, but here was the old setup that never made it to the track. I certainly wish I still had alot of these parts for the new car.

Hacked 1g maf w/3" Dejon Intake pipe & K&N
2.5" Dejon IC Piping (upper and lower)
Supra SMIC (cast end tanks, not sure it was from a supra but approx same size, bought as supposed supra smic)
Forge BOV
Extrude Honed 1g intake manifold
Magnus heat barrier gasket
SBR (2nd generation) Cast exhaust manifold
Ported 7cm housing 14b
2.5" Tubular Open dump O2
Shorty 3" exhaust (approx 6 inches or so)
SBR MBC
MSD wires
Prothane motor mounts
DSMLink v2.5 (tuned about as perfect right out of the box as possible w/out a wideband, just at the knock threshold, good timing, good AFR's according to the stock stuff)
550cc injectors
Sunoco 110
Walbro 255lph hp
Aeromotive AFPR
Stainless -6an lines
KYB AGX's w/Ground Control Coilovers
Stock 6 bolt, ARP's, BSE, Great compression
Tin Canned car - extreme weightloss (as far as cutting out sheet metal everywhere) - no carbon fiber, fiberglass, or lexan however approx 2500lbs according to estimated stock weight minus parts I removed
NT450 street tires on stock 2g swirlies

My current car feels anemic by comparison to what that car felt like at 19psi. I won't bench race and guess at a time, but I have an idea in my mind what the car could've done with a proper 60ft. Future plans would have been a Liquid to air setup, more weight loss, HKS 264's that I had sitting on the shelf, Lighweight rims and slicks or drag radials. Unfortunately everything got parted out before it ever hit the track. Who knows what could've been.

 

[Phil1320]

Doesn't mean much currently, but here was the old setup that never made it to the track. I certainly wish I still had alot of these parts for the new car.

Hacked 1g maf w/3" Dejon Intake pipe & K&N
2.5" Dejon IC Piping (upper and lower)
Supra SMIC (cast end tanks, not sure it was from a supra but approx same size, bought as supposed supra smic)
Forge BOV
Extrude Honed 1g intake manifold
Magnus heat barrier gasket
SBR (2nd generation) Cast exhaust manifold
Ported 7cm housing 14b
2.5" Tubular Open dump O2
Shorty 3" exhaust (approx 6 inches or so)
SBR MBC
MSD wires
Prothane motor mounts
DSMLink v2.5 (tuned about as perfect right out of the box as possible w/out a wideband, just at the knock threshold, good timing, good AFR's according to the stock stuff)
550cc injectors
Sunoco 110
Walbro 255lph hp
Aeromotive AFPR
Stainless -6an lines
KYB AGX's w/Ground Control Coilovers
Stock 6 bolt, ARP's, BSE, Great compression
Tin Canned car - extreme weightloss (as far as cutting out sheet metal everywhere) - no carbon fiber, fiberglass, or lexan however approx 2500lbs according to estimated stock weight minus parts I removed
NT450 street tires on stock 2g swirlies

My current car feels anemic by comparison to what that car felt like at 19psi. I won't bench race and guess at a time, but I have an idea in my mind what the car could've done with a proper 60ft. Future plans would have been a Liquid to air setup, more weight loss, HKS 264's that I had sitting on the shelf, Lighweight rims and slicks or drag radials. Unfortunately everything got parted out before it ever hit the track. Who knows what could've been.

Definitely was a cool combo... sure you would have been right down near 12.0 or better with seat time....but, you'll exceed that with your current car, just give it some time.....

Here's my contribution to the thread for today: a slip from the weekend after I first went 12's with a 12.95, this was my fourth pass in the 12's, there was a 12.83 and a 12.76 that day too.....check the date!

 

[Gooberlog]

Wow Phil, you were running low 12's when i was still in middle school

 

[Phil1320]

wow phil, you were running low 12's when i was still in middle school

that's pretty funny......

 

[SBstar]

Old man...

I was doing a little research on the extrude honed manifolds and read some threads on here that pretty much bashed them like crazy. People saying there were no gains, it's not worth the money, etc. Not sure if I feel it's truly worth the money brand new, but I'm certainly all for picking one up used for a deal. Anyways I did a little further research and this is part of what I came up with.

I think most people have seen the flow data from FFWDConnection
FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

But I found this data on another site. I emailed them and asked about conditions. They said this was a straight up bolt on, no tuning changes, back to back dyno test.
New Page 1

You can see the slight loss in the lower rpms, but after approx 4700rpms it starts gaining up top until when they shut it down. A peak hp gain of 24.66hp. All of this was obviously on a setup utilizing an FP Green turbo.

Of course each setup is different, and the gains may be higher due to the larger turbo, but it still looks like a valid jump in power to me. I can definately see where it can gain us some power up top as the 14b starts to die off.

 

[Phil1320]

Old man...

I was doing a little research on the extrude honed manifolds and read some threads on here that pretty much bashed them like crazy. People saying there were no gains, it's not worth the money, etc. Not sure if I feel it's truly worth the money brand new, but I'm certainly all for picking one up used for a deal. Anyways I did a little further research and this is part of what I came up with.

I think most people have seen the flow data from FFWDConnection
FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

But I found this data on another site. I emailed them and asked about conditions. They said this was a straight up bolt on, no tuning changes, back to back dyno test.
New Page 1

You can see the slight loss in the lower rpms, but after approx 4700rpms it starts gaining up top until when they shut it down. A peak hp gain of 24.66hp. All of this was obviously on a setup utilizing an FP Green turbo.

Of course each setup is different, and the gains may be higher due to the larger turbo, but it still looks like a valid jump in power to me. I can definately see where it can gain us some power up top as the 14b starts to die off.

Interesting stuff. I wonder if the gain on the FP Green set up in the higher rpm is due to the nature of that turbo and that maybe the gains would come lower with the 14b? I am considering this mod, I called Extrudehone, really whoever owns them, and they relayed me to a guy in the next state over to initiate the whole thing, all I wanted was a price. I've left messages for this clown and he has not returned my calls since Dec. 3rd. Too much more of that and I will abort the idea entirely. I'm big on customer service. If you've got something I want and your customer service sucks, I no longer want what you've got because I wouldn't want to be mentioning that companies name in my mod list. Frequently, I like to run companies' names on my car too just to give some props and support a product that has helped me in my efforts, which obviously I wouldn't do if I have to climb mountains just to "talk" to someone about it.

So, Extrudehone, if you're listening, get your guys to pick up the telephone and make return phone calls!

I met a guy recently who is into the Mitsu motors and turbos and does all his own fabbing and portwork. I threw an idea at him about the intake manifold stuff and he was game to play around with a few things, so, if I don't end up at least trying the extrudehone , I'll have something else to try out.

I remember a friend of mine ran [email protected] on a small 16g before the year 2000 and he had an Extruded intake on the car. It was a ported head, cams and built motor, but, it obviously didn't hurt performance.

Really no way to prove it's gains unless you dyno yourself with your own combo. I'm getting support from the local DSM shop and will have the AWD dyno to do some testing when the time comes, and I'll do it the same day.....within a few hours time so that the results will be as accurate as they can really be. Air can change in one day over a few hours, especially in New England, but it will be the best I can offer. I will do this on my engine before cams or any of that. Just the intake swap, so it should be interesting as my engine is bone stock. We've seen gains, but on built motors with larger turbos, we'll see if bolting on one of these intakes is worth it for say, my Galant, or is it a waste of money without other "supporting" modifications. I'll try some different boost levels as well......16psi base, 20...etc. If I have some extra time on my hands, not likely, I'd be willing to baseline my Galant, and swap the intake onto that as well, almost near stock, with just air silencer removed, solenoid restrictor removed, and a K & N. Or I can put it back to 100% stock, I kept the restrictor, silencer, and air filter. That should be cool....

 

[99gst_racer]

I was doing a little research on the extrude honed manifolds and read some threads on here that pretty much bashed them like crazy. People saying there were no gains, it's not worth the money, etc. Not sure if I feel it's truly worth the money brand new, but I'm certainly all for picking one up used for a deal.

I'd bet it was a really old thread...?

Shane, next time you come across misinformation like that, just report it. We gladly delete/correct misinformation where we can and when we see it..

PS - I'll be shopping for an extrude honed manifold for my 14b car as soon as my engine is together.

 

[Phil1320]

I spoke with the guy at Extrudehone today. The guy I was originally sent to said to call this other guy, and when I got that guy that gave me this info, he said the guy I was talking to was the salesperson.....? And these are the people that are going to charge the following. Not enthused with the info I received.

$545 for an intake...plus shipping both ways

$495 for an exhaust manifold

$250 for a turbine housing


Holy ####ing s##t

He said intake manifolds went from $395 to $545 about two years ago.

That pretty much tosses that idea in the garbage.

Unless of course, as SBstar says, finding a used one.......probably about as easy as finding an EVO 3 manifold.

 

[SBstar]

*cough* Just picked one up for 120...

Anyways, I'll try to do some testing with it if I can, I'm not much of a dyno guy but it might be worth setting up some dyno time and seeing what the results are. I don't plan on throwing it on just yet, going to get some other stuff out of the way first. I didn't want to spend the money, but the deal came up and I went for it. For reference I sold mine less then 2 years ago for 250! I liked it, couldn't say if there were any real gains as I never tried the stock one on that setup. But I'll definately post any finding I have with it. Beyond trying the extrude honed 1g mani though, I'd still like to try the evoIII mani w/2g head combo, and possibly even an extrude honed evo III mani w/2g head combo. It'd be interesting to see how well everything would match up to the 14b.

I spoke with the guy at Extrudehone today. The guy I was originally sent to said to call this other guy, and when I got that guy that gave me this info, he said the guy I was talking to was the salesperson.....? And these are the people that are going to charge the following. Not enthused with the info I received.

$545 for an intake...plus shipping both ways

$495 for an exhaust manifold

$250 for a turbine housing


Holy ####ing s##t

He said intake manifolds went from $395 to $545 about two years ago.

That pretty much tosses that idea in the garbage.

Unless of course, as SBstar says, finding a used one.......probably about as easy as finding an EVO 3 manifold.

If you want to do it new, go with ffwdconnection. I've never had anything but good experiences with them.
FFWD Connection - Race Injuns That Will Freeze Your Brain

440 w/core and I know they use extrudehoned the company so they must get it cheaper then going straight through them.

I'd bet it was a really old thread...?

Shane, next time you come across misinformation like that, just report it. We gladly delete/correct misinformation where we can and when we see it..

PS - I'll be shopping for an extrude honed manifold for my 14b car as soon as my engine is together.

It was an old thread, although most newer threads simply refer people to SMIM's and away from extrude honing these days. I don't blame them for 90+% of the cars out there, but for smaller setups I think extrude honing still matches up better. I'll try to start reporting when I see misinformation, thanks Paul.

 

[Phil1320]

Well, thanks for the link, $440 is much more reasonable considering that the "old" price was $395. Honestly, the more I think about it the more I'd be wasting my money.....I don't believe the gains, if any at all, will be worth that money, and I don't see me finding a deal like you got for $120. I'm just gonna scrap the idea altogether I think. I think any $ will be better spent on an intercooler or parts to make the car even lighter.

The EVO 3 intake mani/2G head thing sounds interesting, but, without the 16g and other mods, I'm not so sure I'd see a big gain even with that set-up on my car. I've heard and read about this set up but noone has any real numbers to support the "hype." I suppose the curve might be better, but I'm not so sure I'd see much more peak power at all. Granted, power across the curve does equal more speed, but, how much is the question? I'd like to see some numbers on the 14b with that set-up. Even then, I wouldn't consider it unless I had reason to dissassemble my engine. If that set up doesn't net between 330-350 AWHP than it wouldn't be worth the time to me, let alone the $. And I'm not talking about with methanol or any crazy set-up like that, just gas. I would most likely be more interested in the torque curve than the HP anyway. My car's torque is what's responsible for my strong bottom 1/8 run which is most important in the 1/4 with my set-up. I wish I had a stronger second 1/8 and could enjoy a 30+ WHP advantage that some of our peers have at that point but, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.

Like I said elsewhere, now it's time to spend more money for little or no gain. There aren't any more fair priced mods left with a decent gain for dollar ratio. Or spend alot of money, i.e. built motor etc., which ain't gonna happen until it's needed.

So, that's where I'm at.......almost like in the beginning, trying to think of some small things that might give me a gain for little or no $ spent at all. I'm just not willing to throw too much at it in order to go quicker, no matter where I stand next year.

 

[habitatguy187]

How many of you plan on running e85? And what's the most boost you guys run on your 14B's? Also anyone thought of clipping the turbine wheel ever so slightly? I could see a clipped wheel coupled with a cyclone IM doing some good.

 

[SBstar]

How many of you plan on running e85? And what's the most boost you guys run on your 14B's? Also anyone thought of clipping the turbine wheel ever so slightly? I could see a clipped wheel coupled with a cyclone IM doing some good.

I plan to run e85 since I have so many stations close to me and I plan to actually drive my car from time to time. But at least for the next year or so I'll be using the classic racing fuel when I hit the track. Considering the cooling properties of e85 I'm curious to find out if more power can be made on it then on racing fuel. It might not make much of a difference however, but it's always worth a try and it'll work great for me for street use.

Clipping has been brought up many times and no one really see's any large gains being had from it.

I've talked with alot of people about the cyclone intakes as well. Seems from what I've read is that most people believe they get more torque down low, but after the butterfly's open it's essentially about the same as a 1g manifold, so again I can't see any real benefits considering what kind of torque these small setups are already making down low.

 

[Phil1320]

How many of you plan on running e85? And what's the most boost you guys run on your 14B's? Also anyone thought of clipping the turbine wheel ever so slightly? I could see a clipped wheel coupled with a cyclone IM doing some good.

I'd be sticking with my usual VP C16 117 octane

I've run as much as 23.5 psi. This year I ran 21 at all three outings.

I have thought about clipping the turbine wheel 10 degrees, but, have not as I thought I would have ended drag racing and gone road racing only by now. It is a consideration and not that expensive either. I'm sure most guys have their wheels clipped already.

I've looked at the Cyclone manifold, I'd love it for on/off throttle transitions at the road course, I'm not sure it would be optimal for the wide open throttle only pulls down the 1320. An interesting point though that I'd like to learn more about.