The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[snakeyes711]

I am getting knock, up in the high RPM. I started with 11.5, went well, and moved up a few times. I think I may need to back it down, I'll see how much I can run on the tracks purple race gas, I might be able to run 12.1 or higher? We'll see.

Also I tried to get my 2g mas in, it was't working not enough room to fit, and it wasn't going to fit into the 1g intake tube, so now I need to put it off, till I figure something out. Anybody got any ideas on how they fit the 2g mas in with a filter? I noticed the 3000's filters cost like over 150 dollars, can't do that right now unless someone has an old one they can part with for a decent price.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I've never fully sorted out how a stroker would perform with a 14b. I'm a believer that high revs make for good track times and the 2.4 engine might use up the turbos flow earier. I don't know for sure. I've even though about using 1.6 DOHC engine out of a mirage to keep the boost up higher in the rev range, but a 1.6 engine would kill the purity of a DSM acheivement.

The 2G O2 housing is only a minimal improvement over the 1G housing. I'd rather just port out the stocker, or get a larger O2 housing like the EVO3 or ebay O2 dump housing.

Going back on something, I dont see how more displacement would hurt anything until you reach rpm limitation. These strokers can safely be revved to 8k, a 14b setup would not be revved beyond that anyways . Therefore it will make more power/torque down low and midrange than 2.0 with quicker spool times, and likely just flat line up top were the turbo can no longer keep up as it starts dropping in boost.. In other words going from 2.0 to 2.3/2,4, it doesnt mean its going to make less power up top, it'll just reach its peak power sooner in the rpm range on any given turbo and hold that peak power longer imo.... No lose there.

 

[pneumo]

I am getting knock, up in the high RPM. I started with 11.5, went well, and moved up a few times. I think I may need to back it down, I'll see how much I can run on the tracks purple race gas, I might be able to run 12.1 or higher? We'll see.

Also I tried to get my 2g mas in, it was't working not enough room to fit, and it wasn't going to fit into the 1g intake tube, so now I need to put it off, till I figure something out. Anybody got any ideas on how they fit the 2g mas in with a filter? I noticed the 3000's filters cost like over 150 dollars, can't do that right now unless someone has an old one they can part with for a decent price.

C16 or other high octane race gas's work best around 12.0-12.5 AFR.
Here's one way to fit a 2G mas in a 1G 2G MAF in a 1G TEL/GVR4

it will make more power/torque down low and midrange than 2.0 with quicker spool times, and likely just flat line up top were the turbo can no longer keep up as it starts dropping in boost.. In other words going from 2.0 to 2.3/2,4, it doesnt mean its going to make less power up top, it'll just reach its peak power sooner in the rpm range on any given turbo and hold that peak power longer imo.... No loss there.

You could be right, the only way to know for sure is to try it and see what happens.

 

[habitatguy187]

Anybody got any ideas on how they fit the 2g mas in with a filter?

Cram

And I had to bust out the grinder and hit a few parts, would work with a smaller filter though, or if you have a short-route IC setup you can turn the intake tube upside down and run it like a CAI into the spot where the stock IC goes. I know I had a terrible time getting mine to fit with the stock IC pipe coming up through the fender, but I had already wired it up so I had to make it work.

 

[snakeyes711]

How are those Ebay intake tubes I wonder, I seen them for the turbo 2g for 40 bucks, I need a intake tube before I can put it on. I can't splurge on a Ingen or Dejon or I would, I like the black tube they make, someone has for sale in the classifieds. So I got to make something work.

C16 or other high octane race gas's work best around 12.0-12.5 AFR.
Here's one way to fit a 2G mas in a 1G 2G MAF in a 1G TEL/GVR4


You could be right, the only way to know for sure is to try it and see what happens.

I'll remember that when I go to the track, BTW I have made on of those cans, and its sitting right beside me. I don't think its going to fit, I have a K&N filter in my stock box. I was planning on using it to attach to what I've made, I don't figure there is enough room for it, and a filter, the 2g is sticking out VS the stock unit which sits inside the air filter.

 

[Flitzr951]

How are those Ebay intake tubes I wonder, I seen them for the turbo 2g for 40 bucks

I just got my "chrome-intakes" 2G intake for my conversion, it's decent quality and from what I've heard they work pretty well. I don't see how a more expensive one would be any better outside of weighing a little less, the ebay one I got seems a little heavy to me.

 

[pneumo]

Whatever intake you use, just make sure it's bigger than stock.

 

[Nate Crisman]

You could be right, the only way to know for sure is to try it and see what happens.

Turns out a local guy to me has a 2.3L stroker shortblock with the semi-typical broken crank at the flywheel for sale at a very very good price. I'v got a 100mm hyundia crank sitting here from a part-out collecting dust. (with a g4cs block that is all rusty and would need investment to make work).

So I may still be going ahead with my plan to run more displacement, even though it's only 8.3:1 compression pistons. The cost will hopefully turn out to be "nearly free" after I sell the complete stock shortblock.

The last few parts I'v been hunting for should be in my hands real soon too. Picking up an act PP/Fidanze flywheel with a partout this weekend. A Bosch 044 showed up on GVR4.org for a good deal. I'm really only missing injectors, fpr, and fuel lines before having everything to get the car assembled and running.

Thinking the first week of April I should be able to start the assembly, maybe having it started and running weekend of April 10th.

 

[pneumo]

Nate, you seem to have good luck finding good prices on mods. Have you seen this thread? http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...w-cost-high-compression-daily-driver-e85.html

 

[Nate Crisman]

Nate, you seem to have good luck finding good prices on mods. Have you seen this thread? http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...w-cost-high-compression-daily-driver-e85.html

I think I'm going to throw up, and I'm very pissed at myself. I threw the original pistons/rods out that came with the G4CS block after finding this 2.3 stroker in need of crank, figuring it would be easier to use the stock timing belt parts and more reliable at high power since the 2.3L had forged pistons & rods. Seems the 2.3L motor was sold out from under me yesterday before I could pick it up.

So now I have neither. That's what I get for not literally jumping in the truck and going to pick up that 2.3 the day I found it. Now after reading that thread and seeing actual confirmation that the 2.4L SOHC pistons work with a 2.0 DOHC head, I can't believe I threw the pistons out. Damn, Im such a moron.

 

[pneumo]

Oh dam! Sorry to hear about that. Keep looking, high compression and alcohol fuels work great together.

 

[talontd92tsi]

I think I'm going to throw up, and I'm very pissed at myself. I threw the original pistons/rods out that came with the G4CS block after finding this 2.3 stroker in need of crank, figuring it would be easier to use the stock timing belt parts and more reliable at high power since the 2.3L had forged pistons & rods. Seems the 2.3L motor was sold out from under me yesterday before I could pick it up.

So now I have neither. That's what I get for not literally jumping in the truck and going to pick up that 2.3 the day I found it. Now after reading that thread and seeing actual confirmation that the 2.4L SOHC pistons work with a 2.0 DOHC head, I can't believe I threw the pistons out. Damn, Im such a moron.

There have to be lots of people out there who toss these things out, or sell them really cheap, as most people are afraid of compression that high. Just keep lookin. Im sure you can find some.

 

[Phil1320]

My slip from October:

 

[FonZ454]

JEEZ!

Talk about DRIVING!

 

[Phil1320]

JEEZ!

Talk about DRIVING!

Thanks Fonz, I try.....

Realized I hadn't posted it up, don't have scanner, got a better camera that could take a clear shot, so there it is. I figured some may want to see it.

 

[snakeyes711]

I hear ya phil. I got some problems, I installed the 560's and tuned them with the gen2 maft. It runs decent, at 6k my IDC is like 75% or so, instead of 104%, which is boss. However, I'm getting bad knock. I'm using the MAFT WB tracking for WOT tuning set to 11.6. It pulls strong, I set it to 11.2, and could tell It felt different, so I changed it back.

Also set to 11.2 the knock wasn't as bad but still there. One pull, my timing was down to 10. Is it because of the timing maps, and the 560's? I hear I can self set the spark advance if I have a chip? Problem is my CPU is a non eprom.

Is there something I can do for now? I'm using shell 93, I haven't put any oct booster in yet. That will help some but it won't solve the problem.

Hey, I just had a thought, maybe I can reset my base timing to like 2* to fight it a bit.

 

[habitatguy187]

^^^ Mix in about 40% e85.

 

[snakeyes711]

I don't think we have it around here, I'll do some research.

Update the nearest E85 station is a half hour drive...Maybe I'll give it a shot.

Can I just mix it in with the 93 fuel? With no bad problems?

 

[Nate Crisman]

New shoes for this car: OEM 2g GST 16x6" wheels...they were 17.25lb on my shipping scale. These are replacing a set of Prime brand 16x7" wheels that were 18.75lb on the same scale..for a 6lb rotating weight loss. Not to mention a $200 net profit as the 2g wheels came off a parts car, and aren't worth much to sell, but the aftermarket wheels were.

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Total weight of 2g wheel, metal valve stem, and hoosier 26 x 9.5 x 16" slick:

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Next week I'll start a blog to cover the build of this car as I'm planning to get a large chunk of assembly done starting the first week of April. My wife has spring break, so Ill have a whole week of time to crank away.

 

[pneumo]

Looking good, Nate! The first pic makes it look like your car has dually's on it. Those are some light tires, just 17 pounds! My BFG drag radials weigh 22 pounds each.

Snakeyes, the only problem with mixing E85 with pump gas is that it's hard to get the AF ratio dialed in. Since it takes a lot more E85 to get the same AF ratio as pump gas, if you change the ammount of E85 in the tank it will change your AF ratio. If you can keep a constant 50/50 mix, then you'll get consistant tuning out of it. Or just do the full conversion and skip the pump gas mixture issues.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Looking good, Nate! The first pic makes it look like your car has dually's on it. Those are some light tires, just 17 pounds! My BFG drag radials weigh 22 pounds each.

Yeah, I was surprised how heavy BFG drag radials are...I used to run the 235 60 15 size on this car in 2004/2005, and tire rack lists them at a whopping 26lb!

Eventually I'd like to find a set of lighter 16" wheels...slipstreams, volks...something real light. But right now, money is best spent on getting the car running and building some 14b power.

 

[snakeyes711]

Thanks Pneumo, I can't see driving over an hour to fill up every time, and keep changing the tune too. I got to figure something else out. I wasn't getting this much knock with the stock 450's, running 16 psi, with 100% IDC numbers. Is the knock coming from the higher timing from tuning with the 560's? Is it from me setting the AFR to 11.6:1? Should I drop that down? What are my other choices? I'm wondering if getting the 2g mas installed, and tuning that, will make it go away. Or do I need to do a chip? The MAFT gen2 has a spark advance setting.

 

[Gooberlog]

Snakeeys you could look in to a Meth Injection kit to fight your knock, but you may be able to tune it out like you're mentioning. What boost level do you run on the 14B and on what fuel?

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah, I was surprised how heavy BFG drag radials are...I used to run the 235 60 15 size on this car in 2004/2005, and tire rack lists them at a whopping 26lb!

Eventually I'd like to find a set of lighter 16" wheels...slipstreams, volks...something real light. But right now, money is best spent on getting the car running and building some 14b power.

I'm pretty sure I wrote it elsewhere, but: Extreme's talon ran the 15" Volks with a 24.5 slick at one point, I think they were M & H. Anyway, they weighed in at 24.8 on the shipping scale. So, if you went to that set up there's 40 lbs. of unsprung weight to your advantage.......HUGE. My slicks are off the car now obviously because I'm using the car as a garage anchor right now. If I can locate a scale I'll weigh mine for comparisons' sake.

 

[SBstar]

Well at least I know my 5 spokes "only" weight 17.25 lbs apiece instead of 19-20 like I thought. Makes me feel a little better keeping them for now.

As for my update, the engine is in the bay and almost everything is hooked up, I had to source a banjo bolt for the oil cooler so the next time I'm over there it will be firing up. I also got hooked up with a 2g maf setup so that'll be going on the car once I get link setup. Once she's broken in the tracks should be opening and we'll get a new baseline for this year.