The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

I didn't know this was a "Stock Chassis" drag racing thread. Pretty sure the title says 14b. So to me, anything running a 14b is good to go.



So is running low 11's on a 14b...

I disagree, any dsmer can gut their car, put on "normal" mods, drive the piss out of it, perfect the setup and run in the 11's on a 14b. I proved that in a car I drive to and from the track. Not just any dsmer can switch to a rwd setup. As I said I'm taking nothing away from Kevin, the car and what he's done are amazing, just not relevant when discussing records based on turbo.

Not to mention we're on DSMTuners, where the discussion revolves around the Talon, Laser, Eclipses and Galant VR4's. So not anything with a 14b fits in.

 

[91stocker]

Hell, if it were just about slapping a 14b on something to get the 14b record, I think I'll slap one on a ZX14r and call it day. Nothing like an 8 second 14b...

WTF

Come on man....

 

[1qkfwd]

Anything the 14b came on counts in my book. It was suppose to be all about a good budget race program. Getting into methanol, tube chassis, aluminum rod setups is just plain retarded. You use those parts and means for big setups that actually require that kind of setup. I don't even plan on cutting up and spending big money makin my setup quicker until I can break the record and reset it.

 

[91stocker]

I disagree, any dsmer can gut their car, put on "normal" mods, drive the piss out of it, perfect the setup and run in the 11's on a 14b. I proved that in a car I drive to and from the track.

I don't believe that for a second. How many years of trial and error did it take? And how many people have ever gone 11's on a 14b? Im pretty sure there are many more tube chassis dsm's then there are 11 second 14b cars. Just sayin

Not just any dsmer can switch to a rwd setup. As I said I'm taking nothing away from Kevin, the car and what he's done are amazing, just not relevant when discussing records based on turbo.

So Shep's car should no longer hold the awd record then. Its tube chassis now. Whether or not a 1g is tube chassis or not, its still a 1g. Joe and Justin's cars are as light as any tube car.

Not to mention we're on DSMTuners, where the discussion revolves around the Talon, Laser, Eclipses and Galant VR4's. So not anything with a 14b fits in.

So why would a tube chassis 1g not count? Its just a caged 1g.

I could understand if dsm's never came with a rear diff. But they do. Rwd is not an abnormal drivetrain configuration. Its merely disabling the fwd. The rear diff is already there, they are not adding anything abnormal.

O well, in the end its merely opinion. If kevin took the record, i doubt there would be many people saying he was not the record holder.

 

[1qkfwd]

I'm sorry but a rwd dedicated car is not even close to taking an awd car, yanking the front axles and tcase, then driving it. Converting our cars to rwd change the whole suspension setup to make the car transfer like its suppose to and make the car hook better.

 

[91stocker]

I'm sorry but a rwd dedicated car is not even close to taking an awd car, yanking the front axles and tcase, then driving it. Converting our cars to rwd change the whole suspension setup to make the car transfer like its suppose to and make the car hook better.

Yea but you missed the point. Besides what does changing the suspension to get the car to hook have to do with anything. Modding the suspension is now out too? I'm sure you have done the same.

Honestly tearing down the record and categorizing it, then sub categorizing it is just ridiculous. 14b awd, 14 fwd, fastest no spray, fastest w/spray, fastest auto, fastest 5 speed. Its dumb.

 

[1SloEvo]

That's why we don't do it. It's fastest 14b w/o nitrous and fastest w/ nitrous...end of story. However, like Justin mentioned, in order to obtain the record we are talking about, it should be in a vehicle that came from the factory with a 14b.

 

[1qkfwd]

Yea but you missed the point. Besides what does changing the suspension to get the car to hook have to do with anything. Modding the suspension is now out too? I'm sure you have done the same.

Honestly tearing down the record and categorizing it, then sub categorizing it is just ridiculous. 14b awd, 14 fwd, fastest no spray, fastest w/spray, fastest auto, fastest 5 speed. Its dumb.

Only two catagories are NOS and no NOS. Nos is an extra power adder so yes the does need to be broke down. Us guys that actually have ran the 14B turbos, know the difference between the drivetrains and the pros and cons of each.

There is a huge difference between bolt on mods and going all out to cut up the rear of our cars and adding a ladder bar setup or 4-link setup. Those are mods that change the way the car hooks and handles. Its not factory designed for our cars. I honestly think that if you cant take the bolt ons avalible for our cars and make them work then you really need to rethink what your doing. Its not that hard to get our cars to hook with how they are designed. Me for example, my coilover on the fwd are a full set that I bought brand new on ebay for $35 dollars. Oh and KYBs all the way around that are at least 5 years old on the front and 10 years old on the rear.

Until you get out and run a car with a 14B your arguments are invalid.

 

[91stocker]

Only two catagories are NOS and no NOS. Nos is an extra power adder so yes the does need to be broke down. Us guys that actually have ran the 14B turbos, know the difference between the drivetrains and the pros and cons of each.

Yes completely agree.

There is a huge difference between bolt on mods and going all out to cut up the rear of our cars and adding a ladder bar setup or 4-link setup. Those are mods that change the way the car hooks and handles. Its not factory designed for our cars.

So awd cars that run a 8.8 rear are disqualified then?

Until you get out and run a car with a 14B your arguments are invalid.

I was waiting for that.

And since my opinion is not based solely on emotion i believe it is perfectly valid. Since that is what we are doing here, voicing opinions.

 

[1qkfwd]

A lot of the import race series throughout the years prohibit swaps like an 8.8 straight axle into an IRS car. So yes I dont see why it would count. Many of the rules state that the design has to stay what it was. If you want to swap in an 8.8 irs then go ahead. They also ban the swapping of engines and trans from different manufactures. So again there goes your th350 swap or whatever you want that sets the engine inline.

Its so rediculious to take something like a 14B record and spend all these amounts of money and work to try and beat something that was set with a basic and cheap setup.

I guess this whole argument should be thrown out anyways for the simple fact the top 10 14b holders all have simple and dsm configured setups. I have yet to see one of these "baller" or "custom" setups make it to the track.

If you want to throw out your argument about a 4-linked rwd converted dsm with a 14b, build one and get out and run numbers. Then throw in your .02Cents on why you should be a new holder. That is if it all works out for you.

 

[91stocker]

A lot of the import race series throughout the years prohibit swaps like an 8.8 straight axle into an IRS car. So yes I dont see why it would count.

Thats just asinine. Now your even discriminating against what rear diff an awd car can run?

This isn't official, no one even cares but the few people discussing it here. A solid axle should only be considered a supporting mod honestly.

Thats like a chevy 10 bolt guy blowing his rear out and throwing in a 12 bolt, 8.8, or 9".

An awd running a 8.8 rear should absolutely count, and since that counts so should a rwd.

What you forget is, the car doesnt have to be a tube car to be rwd....

Its so rediculious to take something like a 14B record and spend all these amounts of money and work to try and beat something that was set with a basic and cheap setup.

I think you guys have taken it well beyond that when you took it from "how fast can a 14b go" to "who's the fastest".

And to be fair here, all set up's mentioned could run in the stock appearing turbo at shootout correct?

I guess this whole argument should be thrown out anyways for the simple fact the top 10 14b holders all have simple and dsm configured setups. I have yet to see one of these "baller" or "custom" setups make it to the track.

If you want to throw out your argument about a 4-linked rwd converted dsm with a 14b, build one and get out and run numbers. Then throw in your .02Cents on why you should be a new holder. That is if it all works out for you.

It started as harmless speculation and it should end that way. No reason to be a douche about it now that your on the list. You guys were going on and on about fwd, so i speculated about the rwd. Just because you guys know it would blow your shit out of the water doesn't mean it shouldn't count.

Where's kevin at? Come on man, now you need to do it .

 

[1qkfwd]

This isn't official, no one even cares but the few people discussing it here. A solid axle should only be considered a supporting mod honestly.

Thats like a chevy 10 bolt guy blowing his rear out and throwing in a 12 bolt, 8.8, or 9".

An awd running a 8.8 rear should absolutely count, and since that counts so should a rwd.

You sure about all that?? Cause last time I checked IRS and Straight axle where two different designs all together.

A more apples to apples comparison would be " I blew up my irs 4-bolt and now going to swap in a new diff out of a 3000gt."

It started as harmless speculation and it should end that way. No reason to be a douche about it now that your on the list. You guys were going on and on about fwd, so i speculated about the rwd. Just because you guys know it would blow your shit out of the water doesn't mean it shouldn't count.

The only reason you see me as a douche is because I have very valid points on what I have cleared up here. It has nothing to do with being on a list or not. Like I said get a rwd setup car run it and "Blow us all out of the water"

Where's kevin at? Come on man, now you need to do it .

Something you cant tackle and prove yourself?? Why do you have to rely on others for your "Speculations"?

 

[91stocker]

Something you cant tackle and prove yourself?? Why do you have to rely on others for your "Speculations"?

Where have you read that i ever had any intention on running a rwd set up? The only reason i own a dsm is for awd. If i wanted rwd id own a f body.

Go back and read post #3637 and see exactly what you are blowing out of proportion here.

If a big shop built a 14b record car you would have some reason why it wouldn't "count". Its b.s.

And again this is all opinion. We have different opinions on the matter, big deal. I'm sticking to my opinion and that if any dsm running a 14b takes the record it is the legitimate record holder in my eyes. You guys can sub categorize it however you want.

 

[1qkfwd]

Where have you read that i ever had any intention on running a rwd set up? The only reason i own a dsm is for awd. If i wanted rwd id own a f body.

Go back and read post #3637 and see exactly what you are blowing out of proportion here.

If a big shop built a 14b record car you would have some reason why it wouldn't "count". Its b.s.

And again this is all opinion. We have different opinions on the matter, big deal. I'm sticking to my opinion and that if any dsm running a 14b takes the record it is the legitimate record holder in my eyes. You guys can sub categorize it however you want.

Then why would you bring up the idea to other dsmers who want the awd or fwd, that rwd would take all?

 

[91stocker]

that rwd would take all?

Because it would? And its a viable option on this platform. And i thought it was worth bringing into the discussion. There was a pretty steady debate on awd vs fwd. No mention of the set up that "would" hold the record, so why not. Its the off season, i need something to talk about .

Hell if kevin changed his converter and tire he could probably take it as is. His car and how it performed makes it worth mentioning.

Just shootin the shit man.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well... that escalated quickly.

 

[1SloEvo]

Because it would? And its a viable option on this platform. And i thought it was worth bringing into the discussion. There was a pretty steady debate on awd vs fwd. No mention of the set up that "would" hold the record, so why not. Its the off season, i need something to talk about .

Hell if kevin changed his converter and tire he could probably take it as is. His car and how it performed makes it worth mentioning.

Just shootin the shit man.

Here is the simple breakdown:

The car came in AWD and FWD form from the factory - if it's not either of those, it shouldn't be considered for the record

If it didn't come with a 14b from the factory, then the car can't be considered for the record

There are tons of people who come into the forum and talk about making a record run and taking the record and nothing ever happens. And just like Justin said, why are you not stepping up? Why are you talking about what someone else's car "could" do? Why don't you do it, then talk about it? I have yet to make any passes on a 14b setup that was modded and gutted, but I've built a couple and know most of what it takes to make the power required to give it a go at the record...and my car is around 1900lb, just like Justin's car, so I am making an attempt to build a car with record chasing in mind! I am all for discussion, and yes it would be cool to see a rwd DSM running a 14b just to see what it could do. But I don't think it will ever be considered as taking the record "if" it happened...which is HIGHLY unlikely that anyone will do it.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I fully get where you guys are coming from on this, and in no way does it diminish anyones efforts if a rwd dsm ran a 14b.

That you have all made this sort of gentlemens agreement provides a great framework.

Just understand, that for any other turbo.. when someone asks about the record holder for specific turbo ET, trap, whp.. whatever.. it rarely comess to splitting so many hairs. Fastest 35r? Fastest HX40?

If it was strapped to a riding mower, its inconsequential to most outside this circle. Its a turbo centric record.

Since its been brought up though, kevins car is widely considered to be the ET record holder for a 16G with his 10.3x pass. In spite of the E98, rwd, built motor, etc.

But from my perspective its those details that make the guys with awd and fwd programs on stock or mostly stock motor/trans combos that much more impressive.

11.99 let alone 11.0s on a turbo as small as the 14B in a full chassis DSM is crazy.. now add in fwd and its something special. Not everyone will appreciate that, but no need to get super defensive.

 

[1qkfwd]

Pretty sure the 16g record was reset by an auto awd car.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

You see what I'm saying though right? Whether or not the title has been passed on now to a more traditional car.. at the time there was little to no dispute about it.

 

[1qkfwd]

You see what I'm saying though right? Whether or not the title has been passed on now to a more traditional car.. at the time there was little to no dispute about it.

Oh I understand it. If I personally converted a dsm to rwd to make a reliable 8second car, and threw on a 16g. I wouldn't claim any sort of record. That would open it up to all these 4G powered bmws and even like that 4G powered S2000. All very respectable rides. But not really worthy of claiming a record set by an original car that the turbo came in. But Im sure you get this.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Yup, sounds like we are on the same page.

Congrats again btw! Now back on track made up your mind about the awd trans yet?

 

[SBstar]

All very respectable rides. But not really worthy of claiming a record set by an original car that the turbo came in. But Im sure you get this.

I agree

Those who have the most invested can set the "rules" for the "record". As Justin said, the 14b record has always been about budget setups and utilizing parts easily available and a little ingenuity. That takes nothing away from anyone who wants to go crazy, I'll respect anything that's quick. But, at the end of the day the majority of us in this are going to have more respect for those who did it reasonably. And to us that means a factory drivetrain / body configured T/E/L or GVR-4.

Moving on, gotta thank Justin, his latest improvements have definitely lit a spark under the rest of us. It's time to get these cars out of their winter naps and start prepping for when our seasons start up.

 

[Phil1320]

Yes, this thread is the 14b Drag Discussion thread, but when you start talking about the 14b Record chasers, then it comes down the 90-94 T/E/L and the 91-92 GVR4. Hell, if it were just about slapping a 14b on something to get the 14b record, I think I'll slap one on a ZX14r and call it day. Nothing like an 8 second 14b...

Was gonna go here with it...

I disagree, any dsmer can gut their car, put on "normal" mods, drive the piss out of it, perfect the setup and run in the 11's on a 14b. I proved that in a car I drive to and from the track. Not just any dsmer can switch to a rwd setup.

Not to mention we're on DSMTuners, where the discussion revolves around the Talon, Laser, Eclipses and Galant VR4's. So not anything with a 14b fits in.

Exactly...

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

So if its all about factory 14b cars then why don't you all restrict to a real genuine 14b? Cause they all came with 6cm housing.
If you don't think the stock driveline should be modfied, then neither should stock turbo be either right? It was set with 6cm housing and since its about factory setups then beat it with one. 7cm housing never came on any dsm. So if no rwd or 2g cars because they aren't factory 14b setups then use the factory turbo parts.
But of course that would hurt most you wouldn't it so we could add that to the restrictions could we?