The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

So if its all about factory 14b cars then why don't you all restrict to a real genuine 14b? Cause they all came with 6cm housing.
If you don't think the stock driveline should be modfied, then neither should stock turbo be either right? It was set with 6cm housing and since its about factory setups then beat it with one. 7cm housing never came on any dsm. So if no rwd or 2g cars because they aren't factory 14b setups then use the factory turbo parts.
But of course that would hurt most you wouldn't it so we could add that to the restrictions could we?

Lol, grasping at straws now are we? Bolting on upgrades like a larger hotside is hardly compareable to changing the driveline configuration. But, believe it or not that has already been discussed to death, as has this whole conversation. Also I believe we've already agreed that 2g cars can fit in. Honestly it's like the whole "stock block" record. There are things that are allowed and aren't allowed based on the consensus of those who are the most invested into running the numbers. Maybe we need to start a whole other thread to discuss the "rules" like they did.

 

[Phil1320]

I don't believe that for a second


So why would a tube chassis 1g not count? Its just a caged 1g.


O well, in the end its merely opinion. If kevin took the record, i doubt there would be many people saying he was not the record holder.

Believe it.

Tube chassis and unibody with roll cage welded in the same?!

I'll be the first to say he wouldn't. End of story on that. Buschur also thinks he was the first DSM in the 9's with that car too. Wrong again.

I'm sorry but a rwd dedicated car is not even close to taking an awd car, yanking the front axles and tcase, then driving it. Converting our cars to rwd change the whole suspension setup to make the car transfer like its suppose to and make the car hook better.

Agreed.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Lol, grasping at straws now are we? Bolting on upgrades like a larger hotside is hardly compareable to changing the driveline configuration. But, believe it or not that has already been discussed to death, as has this whole conversation. Also I believe we've already agreed that 2g cars can fit in. Honestly it's like the whole "stock block" record. There are things that are allowed and aren't allowed based on the consensus of those who are the most invested into running the numbers. Maybe we need to start a whole other thread to discuss the "rules" like they did.

Hot side changes are kosher (6cm v 7cm, 8cm, 10cm), what about turbine wheel clip? So I guess my real question then is where do you draw that line?

Switching to a TD06SL2 wheel? Mate the 14B to an Evo X CHRA to use the larger divided housing to improve VE and drop back pressure?

I searched this thread and thought I recall this being hashed out but could not find it..

 

[Phil1320]

I guess this whole argument should be thrown out anyways for the simple fact the top 10 14b holders all have simple and dsm configured setups. I have yet to see one of these "baller" or "custom" setups make it to the track.

If you want to throw out your argument about a 4-linked rwd converted dsm with a 14b, build one and get out and run numbers. Then throw in your .02Cents on why you should be a new holder. That is if it all works out for you.

Yeah, where they at? Come in. Run mouth. Proclaim the ultimate set-up. Dissappear.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Lol, grasping at straws now are we? Bolting on upgrades like a larger hotside is hardly compareable to changing the driveline configuration. But, believe it or not that has already been discussed to death, as has this whole conversation. Also I believe we've already agreed that 2g cars can fit in. Honestly it's like the whole "stock block" record. There are things that are allowed and aren't allowed based on the consensus of those who are the most invested into running the numbers. Maybe we need to start a whole other thread to discuss the "rules" like they did.

Not grasping just discussing. The same reason your giving for not allowing someone to remove the front axles.and weld the center diff is the same reason I'm giving for not using non-factory turbo parts.
Rwd is advantage over factory driveline and larger turbine housings are advantages over factory turbo setup.
If there are no official rules there is no official record because someone could do something a diff and beat yall. Then you get pissed and say it doesn't count because he did this or that.
these are valid points.

 

[SBstar]

Hot side changes are kosher (6cm v 7cm, 8cm, 10cm), what about turbine wheel clip? So I guess my real question then is where do you draw that line?

Switching to a TD06SL2 wheel? Mate the 14B to an Evo X CHRA to use the larger divided housing to improve VE and drop back pressure?

I searched this thread and thought I recall this being hashed out but could not find it..

I believe we hashed that out somewhere as I specifically remember it. The line was drawn in that the turbo is specifically the chra/wheels and outside remaining stock appearing. The wheels could be clipped however most agreed that there was no benefit there so it truly hasn't been tried. The 7cm housing may or may not be an "upgrade" but it is a normal addition to the 14b turbo as uncracked 6cm housings have become increasingly difficult to find. Kind of like the bullseye hotsides for the holsets, it wouldn't make it not a record for that turbo because it's a common modification. As for changing to an even larger hotside (8cm, 10cm etc.) I guess maybe it's up for debate still.

 

[Phil1320]

There are tons of people who come into the forum and talk about making a record run and taking the record and nothing ever happens. And just like Justin said, why are you not stepping up? Why are you talking about what someone else's car "could" do? Why don't you do it, then talk about it?

Yeah, plenty of talking from someone with no intentions who furthermore thinks noone really gives a crap about what people are doing with the 14b.

Well, I'll toss this out there:

Look at the size of this thread vs. any other thread in the Drag Racing forums.

'Where the FWDs at?' was the largest thread for a while. It was started years before I started this thread and it has fairly consistant action.

This thread picked up, took off, blew by 'Where the FWDs at?' like it was standing still, and it continues to pull away heading towards 4000 posts.

This is in the midst of posts about 8 second cars, shop cars, Holset turbo this and FP turbo
that.

Some of these threads with 14 replies and then dead.

You'd think the 16g thread would have more action. Nope.

14b stuff not popular?!

BULL FN S**T!

 

[SBstar]

Not grasping just discussing. The same reason your giving for not allowing someone to remove the front axles.and weld the center diff is the same reason I'm giving for not using non-factory turbo parts.
Rwd is advantage over factory driveline and larger turbine housings are advantages over factory turbo setup.
If there are no official rules there is no official record because someone could do something a diff and beat yall. Then you get pissed and say it doesn't count because he did this or that.
these are valid points.

No one has gotten pissed and said someone's record didn't count because it has never happened. And if you think you're going to be able to remove the front axles, weld the diff and run rwd you better hit up the search function. But, perhaps due to the fact that there are those people coming in here who don't even have a dog in the fight, fighting for specific rules, we should come up with some.

 

[1SloEvo]

But, perhaps due to the fact that there are those people coming in here who don't even have a dog in the fight, fighting for specific rules, we should come up with some.

This is the most annoying part about 90% of the new people who join in this discussion. They just join in to put their .02 cents in and don't really plan on running a 14b or really even care to begin with. They just want to throw out a random opinion about something for no significant reason.

 

[1990AWD]

I pretty much never comment here but I follow pretty closely, and am I the only one noticing the only people complaining about the 14b record "rules" are the people who haven't and probably never will attempt to beat the 14b record? Why do you people care so much?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

No one has gotten pissed and said someone's record didn't count because it has never happened. And if you think you're going to be able to remove the front axles, weld the diff and run rwd you better hit up the search function. But, perhaps due to the fact that there are those people coming in here who don't even have a dog in the fight, fighting for specific rules, we should come up with some.

Didn't say they did. And I wasn't being to literal about the rwd thing. Your last sentence its what I'm trying to get at. As some kind of rules would save any 1 from being able to argue over this and that.

 

[1qkfwd]

I don't see why one would want to exclude the bigger housings. They are made by the factory. So factory upgrade. If the factory made a bolt on ladder bar setup or 4-link setup then sign me up. And if someone wanted to convert their car to rwd by just removing the front axles, welding the diff, and calling it a day leaving the rear all stock. By all means come join us. The car won't hook near as hard and is more likely to break drivetrain stuff due to the added stress on the rear.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Yes, how dare people have questions and opinions on a public forum.. Questions by the way, are not the same as complaining.

I do have an interest in this, its a form of racing I find interesting as I flogged a 14B in my old Laser for a few years and I like to watch here. Best I was able to muster was mid 12s in the low hundred teens and some 1.9-2.0 60's

For the most part a "simple" setup, Link for engine management, manual boost controller and a wideband.. no real weight reduction to speak of, open diff, all-seasons, radio etc.

I occasionally throw the 14B back on when I'm in between setups to play as well. The J-pipe, dumped O2 housing, ported 2G Manifold and oil lines are kept in a box for this purpose.

Things that apply to other turbo limited forms of racing apply here, and that is what I have been discussing. I played with different cams, cam gears, head work, meth injection, different charge pipe sizes and intercoolers, exhaust systems, O2 housings, etc. Played with different boost levels, tried to tweak oiling to keep the CHRA together at those higher shaft speeds.. the lot. I just never really developed the chassis on that car (because I had multiple DSMs for a long time) and the driver mod could use some work.

On the one hand we have you guys praising the attention it gets and pointing to how popular it is.. and then the other you criticize some of the "new" people for posting?

The "Good Old Boys" club, exclusive mentality held by some for something you insist should be the realm of budget minded racing is really bizarre.

Do you want this to be "popular," to be celebrated and grow? Or do you just want more recognition for what you are doing? There's nothing wrong with that by the way, but thats how it comes off when the discussion goes this route. Do you really care about a "14B" record.. or just a "stock drivetrain 1G 14B" record with the concession that stock drivetrain 2Gs are allowed?

I truly respect the programs the handful of you run, but this behavior is a real turn off. Certainly some of these posters without "skin in the game" could show some more tact in their responses, not naming names.

But you would be hard pressed to find an example of me being rude to anyone in here or speaking out of my ass so this style of response is really unwarranted.

It would be as arrogant as me going "I'd like to see one of you try to keep a 71mm turbo 2.0 together for 5 miles WOT in 5th gear" and dismissing everyones input and questions on my program out of hand.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm not wanting recognition for anything if that's directed at me. No want for it to be 'popular,' it just is.

All I was trying to show, and maybe 'popular' was the wrong word, is that apparently & obviously, there are quite a few interested parties. The proof is plain to see. Lots of people on this thread, and as stated above by 1990, he barely posts here, but follows pretty closely. I'm sure there's alot more lurkers including moderators.

 

[1SloEvo]

I am all for new people coming in here and posting information that is relevant. And it might be the fact that a lot of this stuff has been discussed, and then gets brought up over and over. New ideas and thinking outside the box are going to be required for most of us to even get remotely close to any record with this turbo. But changing to a completely different drive setup doesn't seem like it fits since it's not the way the car was designed from the factory.

Then again, I guess there should be a new thread titled "14b Factory Powered, Factory Drivetrain, Drag Discussion Thread" to keep things separated.

 

[1qkfwd]

Yup, sounds like we are on the same page.

Congrats again btw! Now back on track made up your mind about the awd trans yet?

I am eventually goin to run the awd trans. I know it works and I already have upgraded axles for it. The fwd trans is more of a challenge ET wise. It's great for mph. So I wanted to get as close to the record with a different drivetrain setup than Joe.

See Ive been running the awd trans since 03-04. It was when the evo3 16g first flooded the market. I ran on pump gas in a mildly weight reduced car low 12s and had the chance to break into the 11s no bottle. The mph was less than 114 on these runs. I then added a 50 shot and went 11.80@120 with a mix of 91oct and 100oct. Still both considered pump gas.

So now that my axles are showing excessive play compared to before the race in left with a decision. I could spend the $480 and get 2g fwd axles or just finish the rebuild on my awd trans and go that route. I'm swinging towards the awd trans but feel I'm giving something up in doin so.

 

[SBstar]

I'm all for people getting involved and joining in. But, as said before, we've had most of these discussions already. The rules although perhaps not compiled are pretty set and those who have been running the numbers have adhered to them. Then someone new pops in and wants the rule s changed or thinks that some things should or shouldn't be allowed. It gets kind of frustrating to rehash the same arguments. I'll sit down when I'm on the computer and draw out a little "rules lineup" for discussion. Maybe we can put it to bed. But, at the end of the day the opinions of those who are doing the running are going to be the ones listened to.

 

[1qkfwd]

I got offered a billet wheel for my 14b. I did decline though.

 

[SBstar]

14b Turbo Record (as it pertains to DSM's)

14b turbo - CHRA as it came from the factory, only modification allowed to wheels would be clipping of the turbine wheel
Bolt-on enlarged hotsides ok, provided it retains a Mitsu flange as it came on the 1g and 2g dsms
Compressor cover must retain Stock appearing turbo appearance
This record pertains to utilizing a "SINGLE" Mitusbishi 14b turbo

Body: This record pertains to Unibody Eagle Talons, Plymouth Lasers, Mitsubishi Eclipses and Mitsubishi Galant VR4's that came from the factory with the 4g63 engine - Tube Chassis are not allowed - Other vehicle chassis may be included in their own seperate category

Tubular replacements of parts such as front K-member and rear subframe are allowed

Carbon Fiber, Fiberglass, aluminum etc. parts allowed, must maintain factory appearance/structure (bodykits are ok, but who would do that anyways?)

Engine: 4G63 Engine - Internals may be introduced to include, high compression pistons, forged internals, stroking, etc.

Drivetrain - Must retain factory FWD or AWD drivetrain components, RWD is allowable only using factory Mitsubishi DSM drivetrain components
Any combination of factory drivetrain parts are allowable (ie. awd transmission utilized in a fwd setup)

Nitrous - The use of nitrous puts you in the W/Nitrous category

Discussion/What did I miss?

 

[1qkfwd]

So what if I decide to use a mighty max trans and mighty max rear axle in my dsm??

 

[SBstar]

So what if I decide to use a mighty max trans and mighty max rear axle in my dsm??

Personally in my opinion, it's a different category. It's not a factory DSM drivetrain part or configuration. However, this also puts the 3kgt rear out of question as well. It's up for discussion my opinion isn't the end all. Another thing I thought of was if we need to specify factory 4g63 block and head, which technically stuffs Dave out of the argument since he used a 1.6 head. But, in alot of ways I don't agree with using the 2.4 block. So that's a tough one.

 

[1qkfwd]

It was just in your wording to make one think it was ok for what I asked. Might wanna stick with using drivetrain configuration.

I pretty much think if those where rules its what I'd say. Idk about the stroker engines. Might end up being a disadvantage for a small turbo.

 

[Phil1320]

Looks good...

.....however I think RWD of any kind isn't relevant.....only because it was not a factory configuration...

 

[1qkfwd]

Looks good...

.....however I think RWD of any kind isn't relevant.....only because it was not a factory configuration...

I can agree with this to.

 

[Phil1320]

I think it'll be tough to nail this down perfectly.

But, let's wait and hear some additional suggestions...