The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

I follow you along those lines. I was thinking of cutting up the front end and making it tube. Now does that count?

If you're talking about tubing forward of the shock towers, I really don't see an issue as its a race car and that's something that many hardcore dsmr's have done. But, the core of the unibody should remain, meaning all factory suspension mounting points. If you go too far with the tubing, you might as well build a tube car. This IS MY OPINION, all others please chime in.

Also, keep in mind though, that the more chassis modification you do, the more you'll be critiqued, and you'll most likely be subject to scrutiny. Now, this definitely isn't spec racing, it's kinda everyone choose your own approach. But I guess that's the nature of the beast.

I've put up with crap from people about my weight reduction for more than a decade.

I've been accused of running a 16g, by a Mustang driver, , he got spanked.

If there was any question in my area, the day I blew the turbo and coasted to 11.82, I pulled the intake pipe and it was right there for people to see.

 

[1qkfwd]

Pretty much what I planned. Doing tube from the mounts forward to remove and shift weight. And to build a cage around my 1 gal cell so its more protected. But I cant take any more weight off the front without screwing up my perfect front to rear weight transfer.

 

[1SloEvo]

That's what I did with mine Justin. I cut off the frame rails forward of the side motor mounts and made it tubular up front. Only problem is like you said, keeping the weight balance as best as possible and as far on the nose as possible for the FWD. That is the one reason why I would consider a FMIC instead of A2W...or I might just build some brackets to hold the water reservoir up on the nose. I did something similar with the 1 gallon cell and put it under the passenger headlight. But I'm still 2 months away from being home...then a full motor build and the whole 9 yards away from having my car together. As long as your car holds together, I'm sure I'll be chasing your record before it's all said and done!

 

[1qkfwd]

You added a bunch after the fact Phil . As for the weight I'm not to worried what others say. I say all or nothing. The damn things a racecar. If I'm gonna keep it in a garage and trailer it to the track, might as well get it to its lightest and really shoot for this record. I have had a lot of positive reactions about the car. The Honda guys loved it. I must be doin something right.

Brandon I have the car counter balanced and it sits at a 70/30 split. How well the car hooked I don't wanna change much. I see room for improvement in a couple areas. Mainly adjustments and driving being the big one. I'm starting to think that my cam timing needs adjusted. My shift points and the mph are not lining up good now that the car hooks in first. My speed will flat line but I shift to second and the rpms are to low.

Maybe I'll find a cam card for the crower 413s and degree the cams.

 

[Pipnorcali]

A few lil tweaks n a lil more seat time is all a need ....get it ready for April

You gotta get some protection on that fuel cell though..your a daddy now homie...haha safety first

 

[Phil1320]

You added a bunch after the fact Phil . As for the weight I'm not to worried what others say. I say all or nothing. The damn things a racecar. If I'm gonna keep it in a garage and trailer it to the track, might as well get it to its lightest and really shoot for this record. I have had a lot of positive reactions about the car. The Honda guys loved it. I must be doin something right.

Brandon I have the car counter balanced and it sits at a 70/30 split. How well the car hooked I don't wanna change much. I see room for improvement in a couple areas. Mainly adjustments and driving being the big one. I'm starting to think that my cam timing needs adjusted. My shift points and the mph are not lining up good now that the car hooks in first. My speed will flat line but I shift to second and the rpms are to low.

Maybe I'll find a cam card for the crower 413s and degree the cams.

Yes I did.......because I sat and thought about it some more. So, here's some more thought. Funny you should mention Honda.

Unfortunately, this FWD vs. AWD thing sparked my memory about something. I'm pretty sure the sanctioning body was NIRA. The Extreme Talon was beating the piss out of most FWD Hondas and winning events. So what did NIRA do? They dropped the minimum weight for the class down to 1800 or so with driver. A number they knew only the Honda's could get down to. Hence, Hondas started winning again. I think as light as they could get the Talon was in the 2100 range with driver. Basically pushed the talon right out of the class.

Hate to say it but there's a relevance here.

You are 384 lbs. lighter than my last effort. Now, I can be lighter for sure, but matching your weight isn't gonna happen.

Some of us, especially me, have been doing the 14b thing for some time. For you to come out on your first outing and run quicker than all but Joe, even if only by one-hundredth, proves that what's been pretty hard to do in an AWD, can be fairly simple in a superlight FWD.

Then in your second and third days to be nearing 10's.....

There's no doubt that if anyone is gonna finally take down the 10.87, it'd be you.

It's also pretty obvious it will take an unexplainable effort out of an AWD to match your current effort.

Guess I better start thinking outside the box....

That's what I did with mine Justin. I cut off the frame rails forward of the side motor mounts and made it tubular up front. Only problem is like you said, keeping the weight balance as best as possible and as far on the nose as possible for the FWD. That is the one reason why I would consider a FMIC instead of A2W...or I might just build some brackets to hold the water reservoir up on the nose. I did something similar with the 1 gallon cell and put it under the passenger headlight. But I'm still 2 months away from being home...then a full motor build and the whole 9 yards away from having my car together. As long as your car holds together, I'm sure I'll be chasing your record before it's all said and done!

Who's record?

 

[SBstar]

I've said it for a long time, I don't think the awd's can overcome the fwd weight and power/weight advantage. The only advantage the awd has is in the 60' and I don't think the 10th of a second advantage at the start is enough. Could you build an awd to do it? I think so, but it's going to require a much more serious, and much more expensive effort. In other words, you're not going to be playing on the same level of modifications. But, don't think that I believe it's "easy" in a fwd, not at all, but maybe "easier" or "less costly". But, after I argue that I think, where does it stop. The arguments I make for awd vs. fwd seperation could be the same for a guy who wants to say "street vs. race" or "daily driven", "street tires", "stock block", "westerly wind on a saturday". I still fully believe in an "overall 14b record". But, when asked I'd state Joe is the record holder, and Nate has had the quickest awd effort. Maybe not call it a "record" but give it some respect.

That's why I left the record chase idea behind, I saw how difficult it was getting my car into the 11's, albeit it on street tires. After that hitting mid 11's on some semi-slicks was awesome but showed me that my thought process was correct. I wasn't going to come close to hitting a record without getting a lot lighter and without making a lot more power.

 

[1SloEvo]

Who's record?

Sounds like you are thinking outside the box for sure. I patiently await your next setup. I wonder if it's aFWD built like your AWD?

 

[Phil1320]

Sounds like you are thinking outside the box for sure. I patiently await your next setup. I wonder if it's aFWD built like your AWD?

What I meant was that Joe Bucci still owns the record...

...thinking outside the box definitely wouldn't include building a FWD effort...

...that would be a 'if I can't beat em, join em' option.

 

[1qkfwd]

I know the awd effort can be extended. I dont think Ive seen one awd that had the weight loss efforts that mine has. Ive tossed up the ideas of throwing the 14B on my awd drag shell after its going just to see what it'll do.


Its like this. Your givin a car and told the max power to be made is 325hp. Whats the only real thing you can do to make it quicker??

 

[SBstar]

I know the awd effort can be extended. I dont think Ive seen one awd that had the weight loss efforts that mine has. Ive tossed up the ideas of throwing the 14B on my awd drag shell after its going just to see what it'll do.


Its like this. Your givin a car and told the max power to be made is 325hp. Whats the only real thing you can do to make it quicker??

Oh, it can definitely be extended, Nate's car wasn't as light as it could be, especially with an auto in there. But, take the 2-300 lb. disadvantage + the drivetrain power loss, make the drivers equal skill and I think even with the awd launch advantage the fwd runs it down and wins the race. In order to cut the weight down enough you're going to spend some serious coin to make things even out, and even at equal weight you better beat him in the launch because you're going to be losing hp through the drivetrain that the fwd isn't. I'm not trying to cry foul or make excuses for us awd guys at all though, but if I was serious about wanting the record number I'd build a fwd. I think an awd car can hit a ten second pass. We've dissected the numbers between the top awd contenders enough to see where each one can improve and give a guestimate on how much and I see a 10.999 being possible.

 

[91stocker]

Rwd is where its at. Im positive a max effort rwd car will take the record.

Hell 95gsxracer slapped a 16g on his car and ran 10.30's with a far less then ideal set up for such a small turbo. I said a few pages back, that if he wanted either or both records they are his for the taking. He even had the no spray 16g record shortly didn't he?

A super high comp meth motor in his car with a tighter converter = game over.

 

[1qkfwd]

Shane, I would love to see an awd put forth the effort and nail that 10.99. I know it can be done. I would like to see my weight, Dave's power, and Phil's launch ability all in one awd car.

 

[Pipnorcali]

Next well see a 14b powered rail...hahaha

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Rwd is where its at. Im positive a max effort rwd car will take the record.

Hell 95gsxracer slapped a 16g on his car and ran 10.30's with a far less then ideal set up for such a small turbo. I said a few pages back, that if he wanted either or both records they are his for the taking. He even had the no spray 16g record shortly didn't he?

A super high comp meth motor in his car with a tighter converter = game over.

Thats what I've been thinking.. Kevin's car with a 16:1CR meth-head drinking M5 under the hood and a 14B with a 10cm2 T3 housing. Book it, done.

 

[1SloEvo]

Thats what I've been thinking.. Kevin's car with a 16:1CR meth-head drinking M5 under the hood and a 14B with a 10cm2 T3 housing. Book it, done.

Book it, NOT done. I mentioned something about chasing Justin's record a few posts up. I know Joe still has the record and until someone comes through the forums with proof showing otherwise, it is still his. However, Justin obviously has the best chance of taking that record at this point in time. I feel he will continue to improve and eventually take the record...but until he does it's Joe's. Just like this high compression meth motor. Who cares what everyone says can happen? Make it happen, then come talk about it.

 

[Phil1320]

Oh, it can definitely be extended, Nate's car wasn't as light as it could be, especially with an auto in there. But, take the 2-300 lb. disadvantage + the drivetrain power loss, make the drivers equal skill and I think even with the awd launch advantage the fwd runs it down and wins the race. In order to cut the weight down enough you're going to spend some serious coin to make things even out, and even at equal weight you better beat him in the launch because you're going to be losing hp through the drivetrain that the fwd isn't. I'm not trying to cry foul or make excuses for us awd guys at all though, but if I was serious about wanting the record number I'd build a fwd. I think an awd car can hit a ten second pass. We've dissected the numbers between the top awd contenders enough to see where each one can improve and give a guestimate on how much and I see a 10.999 being possible.

Agreed.

Book it, NOT done. I mentioned something about chasing Justin's record a few posts up. I know Joe still has the record and until someone comes through the forums with proof showing otherwise, it is still his. However, Justin obviously has the best chance of taking that record at this point in time. I feel he will continue to improve and eventually take the record...but until he does it's Joe's. Just like this high compression meth motor. Who cares what everyone says can happen? Make it happen, then come talk about it.

Agreed.

Rwd is where its at. Im positive a max effort rwd car will take the record.

Hell 95gsxracer slapped a 16g on his car and ran 10.30's with a far less then ideal set up for such a small turbo. I said a few pages back, that if he wanted either or both records they are his for the taking. He even had the no spray 16g record shortly didn't he?

A super high comp meth motor in his car with a tighter converter = game over.

Stock dsm driveline configurations are where it's at. I'm positive I could care less what a non-stock converted rwd drag car can run on the 14b.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Yea.. sarcasm does not translate well through text. But to pretend that combo doesn't have a few advantages on paper is silly.

Kevin's not shown any interest though, so I wouldn't get to defensive.

Next to nobody is disagreeing with notion of "talk is cheap" that I've seen. Ok maybe one person, but we have not heard from them in a while.

 

[91stocker]

Thats what I've been thinking.. Kevin's car with a 16:1CR meth-head drinking M5 under the hood and a 14B with a 10cm2 T3 housing. Book it, done.

Hell yea, that thing would be sick .

 

[1qkfwd]

Stock drivetrain configuration is the only thing I see as being acceptable in these efforts. Im sure an old Mitsu Galant, 4G swapped, gutted, with the rwd can beat any of our efforts. That takes the fun and integrity out of it. Just keeping it simple seems to be working just fine for all the 14b guys that have actually ran and are on the top 10 list.

 

[Phil1320]

Stock drivetrain configuration is the only thing I see as being acceptable in these efforts. Im sure an old Mitsu Galant, 4G swapped, gutted, with the rwd can beat any of our efforts. That takes the fun and integrity out of it. Just keeping it simple seems to be working just fine for all the 14b guys that have actually ran and are on the top 10 list.

Agreed.

Apparently, after all these pages, all the conversation, arguements, whatever, some still don't get it.

This is about 1990-1994 T/E/L and 1991-1992 Galant VR4 if we need to go over it again so this pissing in the wind crap doesn't continue to resurface.

Choosing a GVR4 is a bit of a silly choice as it has extra heft and lack of aero when compared with a 1G. However, it's totally relevant if anyone was to do one up.

Tube cars, RWD conversions, Starquests, etc., more power to you, but those platforms are not relative here.

Simple.

 

[SBstar]

I agree, I give Kevin alot of props for what he's accomplished, but what he sets on any setup is hardly relevant to the average dsmer.

As for the awd running 10's I say it's possible, but it probably won't be me. I'd like to chase down Nate's time and see if I can top it this next year, maybe two, but after that you're looking at some large dollars to lighten the car up more and start trailering it or build a motor to make more power. Not that I don't want to, I just know there won't be a budget for it, especially when we start considering having kids!

 

[91stocker]

This is about 1990-1994 T/E/L and 1991-1992 Galant VR4 if we need to go over it again so this pissing in the wind crap doesn't continue to resurface.

Tube cars, RWD conversions, Starquests, etc., more power to you, but those platforms are not relative here.

I didn't know this was a "Stock Chassis" drag racing thread. Pretty sure the title says 14b. So to me, anything running a 14b is good to go.

I agree, I give Kevin alot of props for what he's accomplished, but what he sets on any setup is hardly relevant to the average dsmer.

So is running low 11's on a 14b...

 

[ArcticTsi]

This is about 1990-1994 T/E/L and 1991-1992 Galant VR4 if we need to go over it again so this pissing in the wind crap doesn't continue to resurface.

I second that. That has been the consensus since the beginning.

 

[1SloEvo]

Yes, this thread is the 14b Drag Discussion thread, but when you start talking about the 14b Record chasers, then it comes down the 90-94 T/E/L and the 91-92 GVR4. Hell, if it were just about slapping a 14b on something to get the 14b record, I think I'll slap one on a ZX14r and call it day. Nothing like an 8 second 14b...