The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

Another one moving onto the 16g, big surprise there! I was talking to a buddy yesterday about that, all I've ever ran was a 14b. It'd be nice to get this thing rebuilt, run an 11 and try something bigger. But, with as little as I've actually gotten to race it, I'm not burnt out totally yet.

 

[GDNF2ET]

I finally got around to dropping in my GSC S1s,

Looking forward to hearing more about those GSC S1s

 

[ferruchnuts44]

I've been tossing around the idea of throwing a 14b on and going for broke after the shootout in the fall to see how my new chassis/setup would do. I don't think my car will be quite light enough but who knows.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

I just went 14B. Upgraded from the T-25 (finally). I don't plan on using anything different in the "near" future.

This past friday, I became not a virgin...to the whole drag strip stuff (raced dirt modifieds all my life). So, first night racing in a straight line, last night I had my T-25 on. I had incredible shaft play. Few days prior, I started having a weird misfire while cruising.

For some reason, I was only boosting at 5psi. Put the 14B on this weekend, same thing. I don't have any boost leaks. My gauge shows that I start boosting at 4K RPM, and it doesn't really start to pull until 5K RPM. Anyway, that's another story that can be diagnosed here ---> http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/441440-cant-boost-past-5psi.html

Once I get this sorted out, I am going to start doing more mods to the car. Really want to push this 14B and see what it can do.

 

[YZFR1]

Bringing this thread back from the dead..

Today, was messing with some throttle position settings than decided to drive the car to go get some gas but it started bogging, as i was pulling out of my neighbourhood street. That made me open up my laptop and start looking around, only to notice that my coolant temperature was just a tad higher than what i had the electric fan set for. Come to find out that the main power wire to the relay came loose, that's why the fan wasn't turing on. I'm still breaking in my engine and if it wasn't for my throttle position settings that i was messing with, i probably would've overheated my new motor Yeah, i'm going to be wiring in a 2nd fan on a separate relay too..

Anyways, after i got that figured out and resolved. Got some gas and made a couple of 2nd gear pulls. Running a 14b on wastegate spring pressure, 2g maf with stock PCV system on 12 degrees of timing advance, came up with 29.6 lbs/min @10psi. Is that any good or not, i thought 14b on spring pressure should be pushing at least 30+lbs/min?? Does anyone else have any numbers to share for research and comparison purposes?

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[9!'clipseDOHC]

Bringing this thread back from the dead..

Today, was messing with some throttle position settings than decided to drive the car to go get some gas but it started bogging, as i was pulling out of my neighbourhood street. That made me open up my laptop and start looking around, only to notice that my coolant temperature was just a tad higher than what i had the electric fan set for. Come to find out that the main power wire to the relay came loose, that's why the fan wasn't turing on. I'm still breaking in my engine and if it wasn't for my throttle position settings that i was messing with, i probably would've overheated my new motor Yeah, i'm going to be wiring in a 2nd fan on a separate relay too..

Anyways, after i got that figured out and resolved. Got some gas and made a couple of 2nd gear pulls. Running a 14b on wastegate spring pressure, 2g maf with stock PCV system on 12 degrees of timing advance, came up with 29.6 lbs/min @10psi. Is that any good or not, i thought 14b on spring pressure should be pushing at least 30+lbs/min?? Does anyone else have any numbers to share for research and comparison purposes?

I always log 29-30 lbs/min on my 14b.

How many miles on your motor? Everyone has different theories but I personally baby it for the first 500-1,000 miles.

My DSM has just been chilling in the garage for the past few months while I have been working on fixing up my new EVO for DD and Autox. I should be done with the Evo in the next month or two and then I will be back to focusing on my DSM. I plan to sell the drag radials and buy some real 24.5" slicks and some 13"x8" wheels, get some custom traction bars made, fab up my own front bumper exit exhaust, and remove at least another 50 lbs from the inside (heater system, sounds system, wiper system, etc.)

Here is a recent under hood picture from a local DSM/EVO cookout I setup a few weeks ago:

 

[Novec64]

Nice bay!

 

[Kevin Jewer]

14Bs do typcially max out a touch over 30 lbs/min.

Babying the motor for the break in can cause more problems than it prevents. You need to seat the rings before the cross hatch is worn down, and that doesn't take long. I could go on for paragraphs about experiences with several different break in styles, but the best thing to do is try it yourself. Watch compression as you break in the motor. If it's not up in all 4 cylinders by 100 miles or less, I've seen it take up to 10k miles to come up. Don't miss the boat. I try to be in boost within the first 10 minutes of engine run time. For the RWD I break in the motor by building boost twice on the transbrake after 1 heat cycle, then 2 full power half track passes.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

14Bs do typcially max out a touch over 30 lbs/min.

Babying the motor for the break in can cause more problems than it prevents. You need to seat the rings before the cross hatch is worn down, and that doesn't take long. I could go on for paragraphs about experiences with several different break in styles, but the best thing to do is try it yourself. Watch compression as you break in the motor. If it's not up in all 4 cylinders by 100 miles or less, I've seen it take up to 10k miles to come up. Don't miss the boat. I try to be in boost within the first 10 minutes of engine run time. For the RWD I break in the motor by building boost twice on the transbrake after 1 heat cycle, then 2 full power half track passes.

That's why I said everyone has their own way to break in an engine. I was traumatized by a spun balance shaft bearings after my first engine rebuild after only 200-300 miles. It happened while boosting (grandted it could have been the build and bot the break in but either way) On this build I did the initial break in, taking it up in the RpM's and letting the engine decel the car several time, followed by very frequent oil changes and lot of city drivingswitch low boost. It worked for me. I'm not saying my way is the best, but based on my experience, I like it.

 

[YZFR1]

I always log 29-30 lbs/min on my 14b.

How many miles on your motor? Everyone has different theories but I personally baby it for the first 500-1,000 miles.


Here is a recent under hood picture from a local DSM/EVO cookout I setup a few weeks ago:

The engine has exactly 96.6 miles so far and 52,997 miles on the chassis. It has seen upwards of 20 psi within the first 24 miles in 4th gear. Before the build it was making 15 psi @ 36.3% duty cycles but now @ 30% duty cycles it wants to push past 20 psi My original intention was to only raise a few psi off the spring pressure. Good thing i carried out the curve on the VE tables so the tune was actually good, surprisingly. I think one of the main things during a break-in is to keep the combustion pressures down from having too much timing, just because there isn't going to be much room for error.

BTW, that engine bay pick looks CLEAN.. my favorite colors have always been black or white

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Nice bay!

BTW, that engine bay pick looks CLEAN.. my favorite colors have always been black or white

Thanks guys! Sounds like you have a good plan. That is super low miles for a chasis. Mine has that plus 100,000!

 

[SBstar]

Thread Revival! Once again trying to liven this thread back up. The shootout was great, might've missed it but didn't hear about anyone running a 14b fast yet. However, there was plenty of fun to be had. I was thinking about running the car but alas I found out I had to be at training early monday morning. Didn't want to risk anything with the long drive home Sunday night.

So I got home, went to training through yesterday and started playing with the talon again tonight. I ended up using some heat wrap I had laying around and did the exhaust manifold. Not sure if it'll help anything, but I don't think it'll hurt either. Took her for a nice warm-up drive and started tuning again, took the timing way down and added a ton of fuel to start WOT tuning. Settled at 11.2-11.4:1 AFR's and peak timing of 18 degrees. Boost is at about 20 psi. Figured this will be a good place to start for my first track visit in a year. Car feels amazingly fast after driving my boring old pickup and the Vibe, 3rd gear pulls are downright scary coming from driving those! I'm going to shoot for Wednesday night T&T but as always I won't call it a date yet. I'd like to see myself back at anything below 12.5 if everything goes right, then we'll start trying for that 11 again.

 

[91stocker]

I'd like to see myself back at anything below 12.5 if everything goes right, then we'll start trying for that 11 again.

Good luck, that car is so close to cracking off an 11's pass haha. I didnt hear about much 14b action from the SO either.

Personally im just waiting on a replacement bosch sensor for the wb, that i was hoping would arrive today. After the tune is fixed, im hoping to make a clean pass in the next week or so. Nothing record breaking but it should be a solid time.

 

[SBstar]

Good luck, that car is so close to cracking off an 11's pass haha. I didnt hear about much 14b action from the SO either.

Personally im just waiting on a replacement bosch sensor for the wb, that i was hoping would arrive today. After the tune is fixed, im hoping to make a clean pass in the next week or so. Nothing record breaking but it should be a solid time.

Make sure you let me know when you go! Or heck, make it out to Milan wednesday night with me Just hope I actually make it!

 

[91stocker]

Make sure you let me know when you go! Or heck, make it out to Milan wednesday night with me Just hope I actually make it!

Yea for sure, i was just going to run a few over at lapeer and that looks like a bit of a drive for ya. But so is milan for me haha. Maybe we can set up a track day, theres a few local guys that have been talking about setting something up.

 

[YZFR1]

I'm at 115 miles of pure accel/decel with the engine break-in. Raised boost to about 14 psi yesterday and went for a drive. Logged a max of 32.81 lbs/min at 4100 rpm and 8 degrees of total advance out of a 2g maf. The low to midrange in this car is just sick, to the point i have to rev match in lower gears just to keep the whole thing from shaking. Also, decided to change my break points to give it some more resolution between 2000 and 6000 rpm. Don't plan on revving this thing much past 6k but gave it some room up until 7k. So for every 1k rpm between 2000 and 6000 i have 4 break points to do whatever i want

 

[SBstar]

Get out and break that thing in Dmitri!

 

[YZFR1]

^No doubt man Good luck to you at the track! Let us know how it turns out

Drove another 5 miles today after changing the breakpoints, i added 5% of fuel on top just to be on the safe side with the new calibration and logged another 32.63 lbs/min while running way too rich (10.5 afr's).

All in all though, so far pretty happy with how the loggs are holding the engine load compared to before the build. Before, with the high mileage 2 liter it would max out and than sharply fall off, now it maxes out around 4k and for the most part keeps it going until about 6k while also running an almost flat timing curve. Not sure if it's the engine doing the work or the porting on the turbo Or maybe i'm not pushing enough boost yet for it to start dropping off significantly

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[SBstar]

Nice looking port job! I've done the compressor inlet like that but didn't get so far on the outlet. Looking at last nights logs I topped off at 33 lbs/min. Don't have a log of my best run from last year to know where that stacks up though. Winter downtime I should really port that outlet.

 

[YZFR1]

^That sounds good man. I think it would've been awesome to know what kind of airflow people get when trapping 110+mph.

I'm a little upset right now about today's adventure with my car. Something is happening and it doesn't make much sence to me. I raised the boost up to 15.5psi and went for a drive, the first WOT pull was awesome and i logged a total of 33.6 lbs/min in 3rd gear, going down the same road i made another 3rd gear pull and it started running very lean (mid-low 13's afr up top) while picking up a lot of knock (it did, however, make it hit full boost by 3600 rpm though). I stopped at a store and checked everything out, everything seemed fine, the car idled normal and felt fine.

I decided to give it another try and almost the same thing, first WOT pull in 3rd gear logged another 33.9 lbs/min with good AFR's (low-mid 11's), then do another pull down the same road and same thing happened again. Very lean AFR's and picking up more knock than i would like to see. Again, the car ran and idled fine other than that. WTF??

Did that ever happen to anyone else?

I was going to get a GPS based datalogger but now i'm thinking about saving up for a good LEAN PROTECTION instead

 

[SBstar]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/445299-splitsecondracing-project-14b.html

Made a "Project Log" cataloging my cars journey from the start through present day. Our local forum is all but dead/shut down so although it isn't as in depth as there I wanted to have a place where I could look back at everything. Alot of it is in this thread too though!

Dmitri, any boost leaks or perhaps exhaust leaks? Might want to check, can't think of much else that would cause it to run lean suddenly on one run and not the other.

 

[1SloEvo]

^That sounds good man. I think it would've been awesome to know what kind of airflow people get when trapping 110+mph.

I'm a little upset right now about today's adventure with my car. Something is happening and it doesn't make much sence to me. I raised the boost up to 15.5psi and went for a drive, the first WOT pull was awesome and i logged a total of 33.6 lbs/min in 3rd gear, going down the same road i made another 3rd gear pull and it started running very lean (mid-low 13's afr up top) while picking up a lot of knock (it did, however, make it hit full boost by 3600 rpm though). I stopped at a store and checked everything out, everything seemed fine, the car idled normal and felt fine.

I decided to give it another try and almost the same thing, first WOT pull in 3rd gear logged another 33.9 lbs/min with good AFR's (low-mid 11's), then do another pull down the same road and same thing happened again. Very lean AFR's and picking up more knock than i would like to see. Again, the car ran and idled fine other than that. WTF??

Did that ever happen to anyone else?

I was going to get a GPS based datalogger but now i'm thinking about saving up for a good LEAN PROTECTION instead

What valve springs and cams are you running? Also, how much time are you allowing between making the first pull (good run) and the second pull (bad run)?

 

[YZFR1]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/445299-splitsecondracing-project-14b.html

Made a "Project Log" cataloging my cars journey from the start through present day. Our local forum is all but dead/shut down so although it isn't as in depth as there I wanted to have a place where I could look back at everything. Alot of it is in this thread too though!

Man, just skimmed through some of those pictures. Looks pretty intense! Probably more than i would ever want to wrap my head around

What valve springs and cams are you running? Also, how much time are you allowing between making the first pull (good run) and the second pull (bad run)?

It's running s2's with behivee's, titanium retainers yadayada..etc

You know i just thought about the same thing, i'm running on a stock side mount. Is it possible i'm heat soaking it enough after the first pull that on the consecutive one i'm loosing a whole 2 AFR points? That is the only logical thing i can think of at this time. What do you guys think?

I didn't want to use water/meth on a fresh engine but i might have to start sooner than later looks like it. Nonetheless, i plan on wiring in a shift light as a knock sensor LED the next time i go WOT. Last thing i want is to have all this detonation cause me a pre-ignition condition.

 

[1SloEvo]

If you were on stock springs, I was going to suggest possible valve float. With the stock side mount, the flow rate should be relatively close, but if the pulls are right after each other, the I/C will be warm, this driving intake temps higher on the second run. I could see this causing knock if the car is tuned for the pull with cooler intake temps.

 

[91stocker]

I would think it was absolutely possible from back to back pulls on the stock smic. I've seen intake temps over 200* from doing the same.