subs/amp help

[Aproductions]

So I am pretty confused on the whole watts and rms with subs and amps.

basically, what do you all have? I want something loud but don't know what to get.

Is 1200watts (600watts rms) loud? and is there a difference between 1200watt subs with 2 speakers vs 1200watts with 1 speaker?

 

[zanderson]

It all depends on the brand of speaker and the amp. Don't go by peak ratings, they're garbage. Go by the RMS.

 

[Aproductions]

thanks for the advice. so go by the rms only?

and the subs have to match the amp then?

 

[tsi209]

What ever the peak is it's half rms

 

[Ryan4dc]

You don't need big numbers to have some deep bass out of a sub. I had an alpine type s and a small 500w 2 channel with bridged connections. Sounded pretty good.

 

[AK Maniak]

I had a 12'' rockford fosgate P3 in a ported box with a 400-2 rockford amp and that thing hit ####in hard for a single sub

 

[MJBean420]

Its all in the quality of what you buy too. The box design is what makes the sound. You can have a little sub in a well designed box blow the water out of 2 subs of larger capacity on a bigger amp. Seen it done many of times. Try to stay away from the cheaper brand amps and get a name brand. Most likely will make a difference. Better parts. I have always stuck with Zapco for my bass amps. If your looking for that pounding bass, look into getting an Audiocontrol preamp. Makes a HUGE difference. Look at the Epicenters. I have always used their Four.1s in my cars. Its like putting a turbo on your stereo system.

Generally speaking the bigger the magnet on the sub, the harder hitting. The weak point in systems is generally the power supply. The best way to remedy this is a bigger alternator. Capacitors dont really make a huge difference, but the alternator will.

And forget about Peak power. Just look at RMS.

 

[luv2rallye]

What ever the peak is it's half rms

No. RMS (root-mean-square) is the value that represents the average of a sine wave, which is the peak value times 0.707 (technically peak divided by square root of 2). Since sine waves are used when measuring amplifier power, the average power is then the RMS value (peak power being meaningless for audio ears). AC voltage and current also are measured in RMS. For example the 120 volts in your house is an RMS value.

 

[LiquidX]

To be honest you would be best goin to a car audio shop and then ask your questions there. Not because no one k OSS this stuff on here which they do but more for visual learning, you can hear/feel differences in brands and power. They can figure out amsystem for your goals and even install and set it up for you.

 

[AlphaVision]

Anything that prouces 500 watts or more will do for you. I have an Eclipse sub with hifonics amp set to 350 watts and it sounds a bit loud. Not very loud though. I personally love the Kicker square subs. A friend of mine has a 12" kicker solo baric 2006-2007 model and I love how deep it goes. It's perfect for r&b. My Eclipse is also 12", but sounds higher - perfect for techno and stuff.

More important is the amp - a good amp will feed your sub and produce more noticable result, so I would suggest that you get a nice brand monoblock.

If you want to put 2 subs it's better to get models that have 2x4 ohms DVC or 1x2 ohms SVC so you can hook them in-line to get nice quality 4 ohm power from the sub.

It's a bit brief, but I guess it will feed you for a while. You can continue on Google using these breadcrumbs.

 

[94-eclipse]

If you want a loud system but sounds good for like 3-400$ id say go with 2 12s kenwood the 750rms 1200peak with a 1000w mono block and run it mono which is what I have inexpensive lounf and sounds good

 

[90TSI717]

I personally love the Kicker square subs. A friend of mine has a 12" kicker solo baric 2006-2007 model and I love how deep it goes.

I have 3 12" Kicker L5's and they are by far the best subs I have ever owned.

To the OP, It really depends how much you are willing to spend in this area. True quality sound systems are not cheap. If you are interested in buying a good system, PM me.

 

[Dr Funkenstein]

I wouldn't get a subwoofer until you upgrade the stock speakers and get a 4-channel amplifier for them. Otherwise the bass will overpower the rest of your system. If you're on a budget, I highly suggest getting a 12" Alpine Type-R subwoofer. I had one in my Neon and for around $150 you can't beat it.

 

[jed344]

i have polk audio speakers amp'd 55rms x 4 if i remeber and 2 10in kicker cvr's with kicker 450.2 amp very nice set up imo

 

[TheMitsuGS-T]

You don't necessarily have to get top of the line audio. It would be better but middle of the line is decent enough and in these cars any sub sounds amazing i would recommend getting all the same components but that's just my opinion no factual info behind that

 

[jbl_5star]

ive heard a 1000w 10" that sounded just as good if not better then 2 12"s.
its all about how much power you supply, not wattage but amperage.
wattage is just a marketing technique.

most subs are 4ohm. try 2ohm .. also theres 1ohm and below.
ive seen people have subs running 12volts, better systems run capacitator caps and run off a single battery in the trunk so your lights wont dim out,.
i have one 12" treo with a 1000w 2ohm amp bridged and it shakes my head and tickles my ear holes.

ohm-age is the resistance it takes to push the sub, 4ohm has a lower resistance and doesnt take much power to push where as to a 1ohm stable system has alot of resistance so it takes the amp to supply more power to push the sub..

1ohm systems are the systems you hear shopping in the store and theyre on the mainstreet<^_^ thats me goin by buddy<

 

[DGajre777]

So I am pretty confused on the whole watts and rms with subs and amps.

basically, what do you all have? I want something loud but don't know what to get.

Is 1200watts (600watts rms) loud? and is there a difference between 1200watt subs with 2 speakers vs 1200watts with 1 speaker?

I have 2 x 12" Polk Momo subs in a sealed box rated at 400 Watts RMS each hooked up to a Class D 600 Watt RMS amplifier and they are loud.

You need to look at a few things:
1) SPL or DB rating (sound pressure level) or decibel rating. A subwoofer with a 93 decibel rating will sound louder to the human ear than a subwoofer with a 87 db rating. 600 Watts RMS is plenty of power if it is hooked up right.

2) Application - Sealed or ported or bandpass, etc. If you need fast bass (hard trance, techno, etc) go with a sealed box. If you listen to Rap or Rock you can go with a ported box. In my opinion, bandpass boxes suck and usually all you hear is the boom echoing but some people seem to like it.

3) Resistance (Ohms) - If you buy a MONO amplifier stable to 2 Ohms, you can get 2 x subs that are 4 ohms single voice coil and hook it up to the amplifier. You can also get a MONO amp stable to 2 Ohms and hook up 1 subwoofer with DUAL 4 ohm voice coils, these subs are called DVC (dual voice coils) instead of SVC (single voice coils). This lists all the possible wiring options you can go with.
Subwoofer Wiring Diagrams

4) Air moved - If you take 2 Eclipse trunks and one car has 1 x 15" subwoofer hooked up to an amplifier and another car has 4 x 10" subwoofers hooked up to 2 amplifers. If BOTH subs have the same power (RMS) and decibel (DB) rating, you'll feel more bass coming out of the car with 4 10" subs. This is because the 4 subs are moving a LOT more air than one 15" sub. But chances are the 15" sub will have a higher DB rating than the 10" sub, so you can't really compare them.

If space is an issue go with 1 x 12" sub, instead of 2. If you don't mind having a full trunk, then go with 2. You can find some info on sub here - Subwoofer Shopping Guide

This is my wiring setup -

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Here are some pics of my old (subs facing towards the rear glass) and current setup (subs facing forward, sitting above a Moroso battery box).

 

[jbl_5star]

parallel wiring also works with just one wire,

like from the amps + terminal to sub1 + then over to the - then from the - to the next sub + and to the - and then back to the - terminal

 

[DGajre777]

parallel wiring also works with just one wire,

like from the amps + terminal to sub1 + then over to the - then from the - to the next sub + and to the - and then back to the - terminal

In that case, the wiring would be called series, not parallel.

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[jdodds]

Someone said to upgrade all the other speakers in the car and wire them up to an amp. This is the best advice so far in the thread. Youre on here asking about this stuff cause you want to have sound system that produces quality sound. Starting with the mids and highs is what you need to be doing to achieve this.

The problem with just tossing a subwoofer in there is this; Youll end up with great lows if everything in the subwoofer department is set up correctly. As far as anything in the mid-high neighborhood, youll be lacking greatly. The best way I can describe what you would hear would be, good low end----distortion---clipping----and finally ear piercing high tones. There should have been some midrange tones in there but most people just toss a sub in there, turn it up, and wonder why their little brothers $30 computer speakers sound cleaner.

When building a nice sound system in a car, I usually plan it all out first. That way, you can know what your budget is and dont end up needing some other supplies when youre halfway through installing everything. If you havent done it already, get a good head unit to control it all. make sure it has 3 sets of preouts and if possible, seperate high pass filters for the front and rear speakers. The head unit can be installed at any time but you wont be hearing its full capabilities unless youre pushing more juice to the speakers. Most decks only produce around 14 watts RMS.
Now on the subject of speakers... Youll want something thats matched up with the output of your amp. If the set of speakers calls for 50 watts RMS, make sure the amplifier you get can at least produce that. I always shoot for amplifier output somewhere in the middle of the speakers RMS and MAX rating. Keep in mind, were not turning these up loud enough to induce blindness while driving down the road so odds are you wont overload them if youre a bit over the RMS rating. Example: door speakers are rated at 35 watts RMS and have a max power input of 70 watts. Id go for the amplifier that produces 50w RMS.

Also, look at all of the other specs for the speakers. Youll be able to make fine adjustments on most amps and decks to suit your needs but it requires the speakers to be capable of meeting your needs as well. Things to consider are dimensions, frequency response, efficiency, and speaker type(coaxial or component)
Speaking in terms of frequency response and crossovers, there are some things to consider if you plan on putting a subwoofer and all that stuff in your car. The human ear can hear frequencies from 20Hz to 20kHz(20,000Hz) All sizes of speakers can produce different frequencies. Ill use a diagram of a simple 3 way 6x9 speaker to help people understand this if there are any questions.

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This diagram is meant to show the basics of different speakers abilities to work together to produce the full range of what you can hear. Looking back up at the graph, we see the blue bass line starts out the same volume as all the other speakers. Well say that it starts at 15Hz and stays flat until 80Hz. After that point, the crossover starts filtering out the high tones that the speaker wasnt built to play. This reduces the risk of damaging the subwoofer because it cant move fast enough to play higher tones(the in-out movement of a speaker is what produces sound waves. lower speeds are lower tones, higher speeds are higher tones. easy to remember right?) The filter starts reducing those tones usually by 6-12dB per octave at the crossover point. Now since lower mid range tones are tapering off at 80Hz, our midrange starts picking them up around there. On this graph we will say that were seeing full power out of the midrange at 100Hz. Thats going to give us only a -3dB drop between 80-100Hz. Youll honestly never notice that drop too.
The same thing goes for the midrange tones. Remember all those adjustments on your amplifier? That filter adjustment makes a whole lot more sense if it didnt before, right?

What I was getting at there is that you want to look at what the speakers can produce to try to get the most out of your system. If you ask me, our factory stereos were VERY limited in their abilities. This is why its a good idea to replace everything. Wiring included. (ah come on, its not that bad if its your first time. Just PM me for a little guidance and you can have the entire setup rewired properly in a day. Just make sure youre not shopping at walmart for all of it. Order online and you can save some serious cash on this whole thing.)

Just PM me if you would like me to post more on this subject. Im aware that im by far a subject matter expert in this department, but Ive been doing this for quite a few years now and I have a very loyal customer base and zero complaints thus far. (complaints about not taking my advice and wanting to cut corners dont count. Id rather just get it all done in one shot and not have to add more crap later)

 

[awddarrell]

dont get all confused if you are going to run 2 subs and a mono amp then get 2 single 4 ohm subs and a class d mono block amplifier make sure that the rms rating on the amplifier is at least the combined rms of both the subs, this should be the easiest way to go about.
also if you want a clean looking set up, go with matching brands.
far as voltage power your head unit should have at least 3v preouts for the rca output. trust me the more volts your rca outputs put out, the cleaner sound you will get.
next get an optima or an odysee car audio battery, dont waste your time with power capacitors, or battery capacitors. an optima battery is the exact same thing as 6 capacitors.
if you want brand name suggestions, i like either mtx or JL for subs and amps, kenwood is also great for budget systems. as stated above.
and for interior speakers i like kenwood and infinity, pioneer is also pretty good. if you do go with subs and amp go ahead and keep the 4 channel the same brand as your sub amp for appearance purposes, no one will know if your interiors match the 4 ch cause they will be hidden in the pannles and doors.
oh and if the amplifier is more than 800w rms then use 4guage power and ground or bigger most 4ch amps can get away with 8guage power and ground.

 

[chuckd]

ive heard a 1000w 10" that sounded just as good if not better then 2 12"s.
its all about how much power you supply, not wattage but amperage.
wattage is just a marketing technique.

most subs are 4ohm. try 2ohm .. also theres 1ohm and below.
ive seen people have subs running 12volts, better systems run capacitator caps and run off a single battery in the trunk so your lights wont dim out,.
i have one 12" treo with a 1000w 2ohm amp bridged and it shakes my head and tickles my ear holes.

ohm-age is the resistance it takes to push the sub, 4ohm has a lower resistance and doesnt take much power to push where as to a 1ohm stable system has alot of resistance so it takes the amp to supply more power to push the sub..

1ohm systems are the systems you hear shopping in the store and theyre on the mainstreet<^_^ thats me goin by buddy<

yeah.. you probably shouldnt ever post on car audio subjects again.

You need to look at a few things:
1) SPL or DB rating (sound pressure level) or decibel rating. A subwoofer with a 93 decibel rating will sound louder to the human ear than a subwoofer with a 87 db rating. 600 Watts RMS is plenty of power if it is hooked up right.

its efficiency rating.. 1w@1meter the higher the efficiency the better.

2) Application - Sealed or ported or bandpass, etc. If you need fast bass (hard trance, techno, etc) go with a sealed box. If you listen to Rap or Rock you can go with a ported box. In my opinion, bandpass boxes suck and usually all you hear is the boom echoing but some people seem to like it.

bandpass gives you the bass response of a sealed..has a nice smooth frequency curve but provides the air movement of a ported box.
while large and bulky a proper build bandpass can make the smallest woofers sound LARGE then theres t line enclosures ect ect.. but your not worried about that..

4) Air moved - If you take 2 Eclipse trunks and one car has 1 x 15" subwoofer hooked up to an amplifier and another car has 4 x 10" subwoofers hooked up to 2 amplifers. If BOTH subs have the same power (RMS) and decibel (DB) rating, you'll feel more bass coming out of the car with 4 10" subs. This is because the 4 subs are moving a LOT more air than one 15" sub. But chances are the 15" sub will have a higher DB rating than the 10" sub, so you can't really compare them.

its called cone area.. much like displacement. the more cone area wins..unless there was a way to turbocharge the woofers !!

 

[Aproductions]

thanks guys, this is some good stuff.

being short on cash, is this something that would do okay?

amp: MA AUDIO M700XE 1000 WATT 2/1 CHANNEL AMP CAR AMPLIFIER - eBay (item 380273007540 end time Dec-25-10 03:24:45 PST)


and what is a good brand of speakers and what kind of box should I get sealed, ported or bandpass?

 

[chuckd]

honestly i would go with two 10s ported on a hifonics brutus bxi1600 amp

 

[jdodds]

yeah.. you probably shouldnt ever post on car audio subjects again.

Skipped that post the first time read this thread. Kinda wish you hadn't pointed that out to me. It made me really wanna bash my head against the wall

its efficiency rating.. 1w@1meter the higher the efficiency the better.

Yes! For anyone else reading this, here's an example.

You have 2 speakers in front of you. Both have the exact same power ratings, frequency response, and size. The only difference is that speaker A is rated at 89dB and speaker B is rated at 93dB. If they both called for 300W RMS, speaker B would produce better results at 300W. Speaker A could produce those same results, but it might take a little more power to do so.
In short, you wanna go for the higher dB rating not to gain volume, but quality.

bandpass gives you the bass response of a sealed..has a nice smooth frequency curve but provides the air movement of a ported box.
while large and bulky a proper build bandpass can make the smallest woofers sound LARGE then theres t line enclosures ect ect.. but your not worried about that..

In my experience, Ive found that most pre-fabbed bandpass boxes are absolutely horrid. Bandpass boxes need to be built specifically for the speaker thats going in them and are the most difficult enclosure to design and build. Even if everything seems like its right for the selected speaker, they usually dont allow it to produce frequencies to its full potential. If you ask me, they are mostly only good at producing frequencies on 1-2 octaves if that.

thanks guys, this is some good stuff.

being short on cash, is this something that would do okay?

amp: MA AUDIO M700XE 1000 WATT 2/1 CHANNEL AMP CAR AMPLIFIER - eBay (item 380273007540 end time Dec-25-10 03:24:45 PST)


and what is a good brand of speakers and what kind of box should I get sealed, ported or bandpass?

Whats your budget?