1G Strange issue setting base timing

[EclipseOwner95]

So I've set base timing many many times in my long dsm career and never encountered anything like this.

Go to set base timing, adjust it to 5* BTDC, but in order to attain 5* the CAS has to be turned all the way advance until it won't go any further. I'm 100% positive that the mark on the pulley is in the correct spot.

Anyone ever had to set their CAS that advanced to get 5* ?

Of all the DSM's I've ever set base timing on they've always been around the middle give or take a little, never the extreme advance or retard. Just got the car running after a TON of work so the last thing I wanna do is blow it up from the timing being too advanced.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[bryanwheat]

You wither have the cam timing off, a damaged balancer, or the wrong balancer.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Alright, so I checked the timing, appears to be dead on, here are some pics to verify.

Balancer appears to be in good shape as well.

Any other suggestions? Could a bad/failing CAS cause this?

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[snowborder714]

Did you make sure the CAS isn't 180° out?
RRE Instructions


I'm assuming the picture of the crank sprocket was to show that the dowel in it is at 3 o'clock?

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Did you make sure the CAS isn't 180° out?
RRE Instructions


I'm assuming the picture of the crank sprocket was to show that the dowel in it is at 3 o'clock?

I'll see if the CAS is 180 out though.

The picture of the crank sprocket is verifying the mechanical timing. The mark is lined up with the knotch in the sprocket.

 

[Calan]

How many times has the block been decked and the head surfaced?

Are you running a COP setup by any chance?

 

[EclipseOwner95]

How many times has the block been decked and the head surfaced?

Are you running a COP setup by any chance?

Block has been decked once. Head has plenty of meat on it, well within spec, though I can't comment on exactly how many times its been resurfaced.

And no, i'm running stock CP

 

[snowborder714]

The picture of the crank sprocket is verifying the mechanical timing. The mark is lined up with the knotch in the sprocket.

Now I see it.

 

[DSMopar]

So when the cam/crank are lined up with their marks you're sure the balancer mark is lined up with TDC correct?

 

[EclipseOwner95]

So when the cam/crank are lined up with their marks you're sure the balancer mark is lined up with TDC correct?

Yes, all of those still pictures I posted are at the same time. Crank sprocket lined up, cam gears lined up, little red arrow pointing is signifying the timing mark on the balancer at TDC.

The whiteout is hard to see on the balancer in the picture which is why I put the arrow there. It's definitely 100% lined up.

 

[Calan]

Have you counted the teeth on the t-belt at the cam gears just for an added check?

With the motor at TDC, cam dowels straight up, and the cam gear marks lined up parallel to the head, there should be 39 teeth on the timing belt from the mark on the exhaust gear (at 9:00), to the mark on the intake cam gear at 3:00.

 

[DSMopar]

Two other questions, did you ground the timing terminal? Are you using any tuning devices? Can you take a pic of the CAS position?

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Two other questions, did you ground the timing terminal? Are you using any tuning devices? Can you take a pic of the CAS position?

I'm not at the car right now but yes the timing is grounded. I'm using DSMLink to ground the timing, and I even grounded it at the ECU Pin to verify that it wasn't something going on with DSMLink.

I haven't verified the position of the CAS yet so it could be 180* out. That will be my next step.

 

[bryanwheat]

Are you using stock cams? It is possible with an aftermarket cam that the cam sensor notch is slightly off. I guess it is also possible that you might have a defective factory cam. There isn't too much else that it could be really.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Are you using stock cams? It is possible with an aftermarket cam that the cam sensor notch is slightly off. I guess it is also possible that you might have a defective factory cam. There isn't too much else that it could be really.

I'm using FP4R cams, I'd like to think that a FP would have pretty good quality control and not let that fly. But I suppose its a possibility.

 

[Calan]

I'm using FP4R cams...

Ok. You suck.

Your issue is just Nature's way of saying that I should have those cams instead of you.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Alright, well the CAS was 180* out, so I switched it around and it helped a little but still wasn't in the middle where it normally would reside.

So I threw one of my spare ones on and got this. Still looks a little more advance than normal. But I think it should be fine. Anyone see an issue with it being this far advance?

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[snowborder714]

I don't think it's necessarily supposed to sit in the dead middle and be spot on (at least I don't think mine is). I'd say that looks fine to me as long as it makes things hit 5°.

 

[Calan]

Looks perfectly normal to me.

I'm guessing you don't have a stock '90 harness?

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Looks perfectly normal to me.

I'm guessing you don't have a stock '90 harness?

Lmao, understatement of the year

Here is a pic of my entire engine harness .

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Check out my build thread here.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/423581-90-talon-weekend-warrior-tucked-everything-hta68-n20.html

 

[RT-AWD]

hi I'm having this same issue, no idea how many times the head or block has been decked. Ground through link the car idles at 5 deg btdc ungrounded it bounces between 5 and 11 deg. gears notches line up correctly. Im running kelford 272s