2G Starter Engagement Issues W/ Twin Disc Quartermaster

[dugan33]

Hey all, I'm having some starter engagement issues and could use some advice to best solve it.

Scenario: I turn the key over and sometimes nothing happens, other times it turns over fine and starts. I just got to keep turning it and turning it until it decides to start. Sometimes I have to turn the key maybe 10 times until it starts.

Originally, I figured it was a bad starter or at least bad contacts. I got a new mitsubishi starter in there and inspected all the contacts and wires and found everything to be in like new shape. Even the old starter looked new. (probably because the prior owner had this issue too and thought the same as I did.) I then figured well it must be the ignition switch, which it could still be, I I haven't actually checked voltage at the solenoid when the key turns over(kinda need 2 ppl).

but Currently: here I am swapping my transmission out and I noticed that yes I have a good condition starter plate, but this quartermater flywheel is different. I'm wondering if the flywheel distance is the only issue and the starter just sometimes shoots by. The car is apart now so it's hard to do a lot of testing.

I'm hoping someone on here can:

• give me maybe the distance from the flywheel teeth to starter plate on their 2g.
• Tell me that i'm crazy for thinking distance is an issue and that i should be investigating the ignition switch or elsewhere electrical
• share similar issues and their resolutions.

THANKS!

 

[silvreclips]

So is the starter spinning when you turn the key? That will tell you where you should be looking. If the starter spins every time you hit the key then you may have an issue. I would bolt the starter in while you have the trans out so you can see what's going on. Don't let it start obviously

 

[motomattx]

Its not the clutch. Could be the clutch lockout switch though.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Try replacing, or at least cleaning, the ignition switch, which is on the driver's side of the column attached to the end of the ignition cylinder. It can get dirty and cause starting issues like you described. It can be disassembled and the gunk cleaned out.

 

[dugan33]

Ok. Thanks some good advice. I don't have the turbo installed or even any motor oil in it currently. Therefore, I'm a little afraid of cranking over the motor. or do you think its ok with everything else disabled?

Contact Cleaner ok for the ignition switch? I'm definitely gonna give that a try. May even look for a new replacement.

I already thought of the clutch lockout switch. Thats an easy one to fix. Unplugging it disables it. No change for me.

I really wanna do what silvreclips suggested and see whats going on so I at least know if the starter is spinning. Originally i figured it wasn't and its just a switch issue, but looking at this flywheel with it off I'm having second thoughts. One thing I'll say is that when the starter didnt engage it was dead silent. no click or nothing that I recall. You'd think I'd get some kinda noise.

So here's my plan. Disable the fuel system by unplugging fuel pump, disable spark by unplugging coil pack, put an oil filter on, pour like 1/2 quart oil in(any more and it'd fall out turbo oil return), turn the key over and videotape what happens. I'll easily be able to see if its moving or not. Then I'll know if I have to shim and adjust or clean/replace starter switch.

I'll report back what i find out. I know this was an easier issue that really has some more diagnostics on my end required. But, I'm glad to receive the input before I go out and diagnose on this. I was just really afraid of turning over the motor Let me know if you think there's a better plan of action here. I may check voltage or resistance at starter solenoid little tab when key is turned over to see if switch does anything. Then I font have to try actually turning the starter to see if switch is faulty or not. I'll just disconnect the large starter power wire.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Bench test the starter with a pair of jumper cables. If it spins (and obviously makes a lot of noise), then it is fine and move on to the signal line (the spade terminal on the starter) and check it for 12v when the switch is turned to "start". Also, make sure that your ground to the motor goes to the starter bolt on the bellhousing, you always need a good ground. It really sounds like you are getting an intermittent signal to the starter, which will lead you to the ignition switch. For sure make sure you have quality connections on the big starter lug and at the battery, along with the signal wire being a good solid connection also.

 

[silvreclips]

I wouldn't be to concerned about the oil. You are just bumping the motor over, don't let it sit there and spin. A few quick bumps would tell you enough. You could even start with just a meter and see if you are getting 12v to the starter solenoid.

From what you have said I am thinking you have an electrical issue

 

[dugan33]

well the mock up test didnt go so well. Turns out I couldnt get enough of a ground probably since I couldn't actually bolt it in. I did bench test it and got passing results attached below.

More interestingly, when I voltage test the little tab on the starter which should come from the ignition switch I get 0 volts even when I had a friend try turning the key over. It should be 12 when the key is turned over correct? I'm next going to try replacing the ignition switch.

current was 50.78 at 14.5v

 

[dugan33]

Welp, I got it all put together installed. Still doing nothing, however, the fuel pump turns on when I turn the key over so it kinda makes me think its not an electrical ignition switch issue. Which, I thought i deemed extremely unlikely as there is a starter plate and all the wiring looks perfect and the starter tests great. Im going to change the ignition switch this week anyways since its cheap. Anything particular with twin discs that could be messing this up?