SS Fuel Line Smells Like Fuel?

[Spoolin98]

I had my car up on my buddies lift the other day to fix my front bumper since it was hanging a bit. While I was under the car I was checking out my -6an line that I installed a few months ago from the tank to the fuel rail.

This is my question, should the line smell like fuel? Is that normal?
If you put your nose up the to line anywhere on the line, you can smell the gas right through the ss line. The line felt dry everywhere, I didnt see a leak anywhere. I have steady fuel pressure and I never see fuel anywhere on my garage floor. I highly doubt there is a leak.

Anyone else have a ss fuel line that they would be willing to give a sniff for me?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

NO, it should NOT smell like fuel. If the line was put together correctly (and I'll assume it has), there should be nothing to smell. Even if you managed to get fuel on the outside during the install, normal rain, water on the road etc. should have "washed" it away in a few days.

Fuel evaporates fairly quickly, maybe it is just a very small leak that evaporates before you actually see anything on the ground.

While it may be nothing serious, with fuel in the mix, I would definitely make that something to "look at" during normal maintenance.

 

[Spoolin98]

NO, it should NOT smell like fuel. If the line was put together correctly (and I'll assume it has), there should be nothing to smell. Even if you managed to get fuel on the outside during the install, normal rain, water on the road etc. should have "washed" it away in a few days.

Fuel evaporates fairly quickly, maybe it is just a very small leak that evaporates before you actually see anything on the ground.

While it may be nothing serious, with fuel in the mix, I would definitely make that something to "look at" during normal maintenance.

I put the line together myself and then it was pressure tested, so It shouldnt be leaking. I dont drive the car in the rain or when its wet out, so it wouldnt be "washed" away, but I also dont remember getting fuel on it at any point.

The reason I dont think its a leak is because the entire line smells that way, not just one point. Im def. going to have to take a closer look at it.

 

[daren_p]

Mike, I know exactly what your talking about. I use to have this issue as well, zero leaks & when you put your nose a few inches away from the line, you can smell fuel. I asked if this was normal, everyone said "no mine doesn't smell like fuel". Then the guys that actually went out & got right in the area for a smell, replied "I was wrong, it does smell like fuel". I had this issue with my first Aeroquip push lock setup, then my Earls Pro-Lite. When I contacted the manufacturer they said, yes this can most defently happen with pump fuel but no this isn't a good thing. Most SS braided or any of the other setups out there use synthetic rubber liners with different types of overbraides, etc. Because of all the additives they add to fuel nowadays, it actually permiates & eats through these synthetic hoses. This gives you the gas smell & was told will eventually eat through the line. I was told since race cars change lines so regularly, this isn't an issue for them. For a street car the only line they recommend for fuel is teflon lined. So not likeing the fact that I could smell fuel (couldn't really smell with car running, the smell was stronger when the car wasn't running), I swapped to a teflon lined setup. The line costs abit more the the synthetic line & the fittings are also more (specific to this style of line) but there is no longer any fumes from the line. I have run this line for 2 years & still nothing, even with your nose right to the line.

Side note: Earl's Ultra Flex 650 hose will also work, but when I asked Earls about it they said "this hose is used in top fuel, you don't want to know the price..."

 

[Spoolin98]

Mike, I know exactly what your talking about. I use to have this issue as well, zero leaks & when you put your nose a few inches away from the line, you can smell fuel. I asked if this was normal, everyone said "no mine doesn't smell like fuel". Then the guys that actually went out & got right in the area for a smell, replied "I was wrong, it does smell like fuel". I had this issue with my first Aeroquip push lock setup, then my Earls Pro-Lite. When I contacted the manufacturer they said, yes this can most defently happen with pump fuel but no this isn't a good thing. Most SS braided or any of the other setups out there use synthetic rubber liners with different types of overbraides, etc. Because of all the additives they add to fuel nowadays, it actually permiates & eats through these synthetic hoses. This gives you the gas smell & was told will eventually eat through the line. I was told since race cars change lines so regularly, this isn't an issue for them. For a street car the only line they recommend for fuel is teflon lined. So not likeing the fact that I could smell fuel (couldn't really smell with car running, the smell was stronger when the car wasn't running), I swapped to a teflon lined setup. The line costs abit more the the synthetic line & the fittings are also more (specific to this style of line) but there is no longer any fumes from the line. I have run this line for 2 years & still nothing, even with your nose right to the line.

Side note: Earl's Ultra Flex 650 hose will also work, but when I asked Earls about it they said "this hose is used in top fuel, you don't want to know the price..."

Daren,
Thanks for the input...thats exactly what I did and didnt want to hear.

So any idea how long it will take to eat through the line?
Where can I get the teflon lined line?
I REALLY dont feel like replacing this line already

 

[daren_p]

From Earl's, its under the brake system heading (max size they have is -6AN), hose is speedflex:

Holley Performance Speed–Flex Hose Products

Fittings:

Holley Performance Speed–Seal Hose Ends Products

I bought the fittings & line from Summit Racing. I'm not sure if other manufacturers offer teflon lined hose as well.

As for how long it would take for the fuel to eat through the hose enough to leak, I would imagine it would be years & years. IIRC they recommended replacing synthetic hose yearly on a street car.

You will notice this quote right on the Speed-Flex hose page:

Installation Notes
Manufacturers have added any number of new unpublished additives to their blends rendering some of them incompatible with synthetic rubber lined hose. Earl's Speed–Flex teflon lined stainless braided hose is impervious to any automotive fuel blend known to us and may be the best choice for use with modern racing gasolines. All SPEED–FLEX hoses are compatible with gasoline, hydrocarbon fuels, alcohols, nitro–methane, mineral and synthetic lubricants, and high density fuel additives. Size 6 is carbon lined to dissipate static electricity.

 

[Spoolin98]

From Earl's, its under the brake system heading (max size they have is -6AN), hose is speedflex:

Holley Performance Speed–Flex Hose Products

Fittings:

Holley Performance Speed–Seal Hose Ends Products

I bought the fittings & line from Summit Racing. I'm not sure if other manufacturers offer teflon lined hose as well.

As for how long it would take for the fuel to eat through the hose enough to leak, I would imagine it would be years & years. IIRC they recommended replacing synthetic hose yearly on a street car.

You will notice this quote right on the Speed-Flex hose page:

Installation Notes
Manufacturers have added any number of new unpublished additives to their blends rendering some of them incompatible with synthetic rubber lined hose. Earl's Speed–Flex teflon lined stainless braided hose is impervious to any automotive fuel blend known to us and may be the best choice for use with modern racing gasolines. All SPEED–FLEX hoses are compatible with gasoline, hydrocarbon fuels, alcohols, nitro–methane, mineral and synthetic lubricants, and high density fuel additives. Size 6 is carbon lined to dissipate static electricity.

Daren,
Thanks a ton for your help and info, its much appreciated

ANplumbing sells that line and fittings, I priced it out, its going to be about $100 to replace my fuel line from the tank to the filter. And I would still have to do my feed and return lines, thats going to be a ton of money because of all the fittings. Damn, that sucks. Im just going to wait it out and hopefully nothing bad happens.

One thing really has me wondering, as these adatives and what not eat away at the fuel line, what happens to the parts being eaten away? Are they going into my fuel filter and getting trapped there?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Well...I must admit I was wrong. I went home last night and actually smelled the line. And Daren is correct on a few things.

1. I never have smelled the line. I just "assumed" that you should not smell anything.
2. After getting right up on the hose and giving a sniff, my line also smells like fuel, which is strange to me as I never smelled any fuel in the engine bay before.
3. Just shows you that no matter what you "think" you know, you can still learn something.

a big for Daren

 

[99gst_racer]

Side note: Earl's Ultra Flex 650 hose will also work, but when I asked Earls about it they said "this hose is used in top fuel, you don't want to know the price..."

^^^ This stuff is awesome, BTW. It's a teflon tube with a woven Kevlar outer braid. It's extremely lightweight and extremely expensive. Retail is like $24/ft for -6!


Spoolin98 - Don't lose sleep over it. I've got some pretty old fuel hoses laying around and some still on the car, and they have yet to fail. Deterioration is a slow process, so your current fuel line should be fine for years to come.

I've never actually smelled my fuel hose before, but now you've got me wondering.

 

[Spoolin98]

Well...I must admit I was wrong. I went home last night and actually smelled the line. And Daren is correct on a few things.

1. I never have smelled the line. I just "assumed" that you should not smell anything.
2. After getting right up on the hose and giving a sniff, my line also smells like fuel, which is strange to me as I never smelled any fuel in the engine bay before.
3. Just shows you that no matter what you "think" you know, you can still learn something.

a big for Daren

So Jim, how long have you had your fuel lines on the car now?
Im shocked that on all the DSMforums I read on, I have never read about this before.

Jim, I dont smell fuel in my engine bay either. Its only when Im about an inch or so away from the line and smell it.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

My lines have been on (in running condition) since Dec 2004. I have not had any fuel issues at all.

And yes, I had to put my nose within an inch or so and then it smelled like an open gas can.

 

[Spoolin98]

^^^ This stuff is awesome, BTW. It's a teflon tube with a woven Kevlar outer braid. It's extremely lightweight and extremely expensive. Retail is like $24/ft for -6!


Spoolin98 - Don't lose sleep over it. I've got some pretty old fuel hoses laying around and some still on the car, and they have yet to fail. Deterioration is a slow process, so your current fuel line should be fine for years to come.

I've never actually smelled my fuel hose before, but now you've got me wondering.

Paul,
Im not going to lose sleep over it, I was just very concerned at the smell of fuel. Gas is nothing to play with, especially after all the money I put into my car, the last thing I want to happen is have it start on fire.
Give your lines a sniff and let us know.
I didnt even smell mine in the engine bay, I only smelled the line under the car.
How long have you had your lines on your car?

 

[OddNotion]

Sweet christ, I never thought of this!

Late this past summer I replaced my stock fuel lines with Jegs 6AN hose and fittings.

Check out my pics and report here:
http://www.4g64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=195

I couldn't figure out why I could smell fuel all the time!

After sitting in the hot garage overnight I could detect a smell of gas when I went to get in the car the next morning. It's an extremely subtle smell, but there for sure.

This would make sense b/c the surface area of that 8 foot piece of hose could sure allow a lot of gas molecules to permeate, especially if it's under pressure.

I must also mention that the 4G64 Spyder has a higher base fuel pressure that the 4G63, so even more diffusion through the rubber.


I'm going to sniff my line tonight on the creeper..........

 

[Spoolin98]

Sweet christ, I never thought of this!

Late this past summer I replaced my stock fuel lines with Jegs 6AN hose and fittings.

Check out my pics and report here:
http://www.4g64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=195

I couldn't figure out why I could smell fuel all the time!

After sitting in the hot garage overnight I could detect a smell of gas when I went to get in the car the next morning. It's an extremely subtle smell, but there for sure.

This would make sense b/c the surface area of that 8 foot piece of hose could sure allow a lot of gas molecules to permeate, especially if it's under pressure.

I must also mention that the 4G64 Spyder has a higher base fuel pressure that the 4G63, so even more diffusion through the rubber.


I'm going to sniff my line tonight on the creeper..........

I had the exact same problem in my heated garage, and until now, I had no idea where the smell was coming from.

 

[OddNotion]

I actually thought it was my old hard line that I left on the car. During the SS install I blew it out with compressed air then put (literally) a cork in the ends. I was not feeling ambitious enough to cut out the hard line, and I wanted to make sure I could revert to it if my SS lines didn't work for any reason.

After suspecting the corks, I plugged the lines with RTV just to be sure..........

Still the occasional whiff. It's less prevalent in the winter now, but there.

I promise I'll cut out the hard line someday............

 

[Auto RS T]

Good information on the line.

Another place vapors could be escaping is the pump assembly plate gasket. Mine had pieces of rust stuck to it and definately wasn't going to seal so I cleaned it and gave it a slight silicone lube to help the seal. I have also seen them for sale on some vendor sites.

Also when the charcoal canister is removed the fuel tank vent line is open to the atmoshphere, leaving raw vapors in the engine compartment. I have routed mine away from there with a piece of vacuum line.

I also noticed some of my -AN fittings (not all the same brand) had o-rings on them that had begun to deterioate, so I replaced those. Just some more things to look into.

 

[99gst_racer]

FYI: I called my Aeroquip rep (I'm a dealer) today to discuss this issue with him. He said this is completely normal. He said gaseous vapor will permeate the rubber hose, but fuel will never leak or escape. The longer the vehicle will sit, the more intense it will begin to smell. He explained that this does not cause damage to the hose and is not harmful in any way.

 

[Spoolin98]

FYI: I called my Aeroquip rep (I'm a dealer) today to discuss this issue with him. He said this is completely normal. He said gaseous vapor will permeate the rubber hose, but fuel will never leak or escape. The longer the vehicle will sit, the more intense it will begin to smell. He explained that this does not cause damage to the hose and is not harmful in any way.

Thanks for taking the time to do that Paul, its much appreciated.
Im glad to hear that.

So a question I have for the rep is, are these "gaseous vapor's" flammable? Since technically the fumes from gasoline are flammable, I wonder if these vapors are also flammable.

 

[daren_p]

Paul, like Mike I'm curious too, its the vapours that have the explosive issue so would this not be an issue just like any other fuel vapours? Or maybe the concentration isn't high enough to cause any issue? Personally, I just have the rail to FPR line done, so I really wasn't liking the idea of having fuel smell right beside the coil pack, just thought that was asking for trouble (so much so, that I actually kept a fire extinguisher in the back seat the first summer ).

Guys have run years & years on the synthetic rubber setups, & I don't recall any "fire" stories with SS bradided fuel lines (well ones that werent from install error), so you shouldn't have to worry about it eating through anytime soon. For the tank to filter line, I don't think I'd worry about it too much in that location, like I said I'm just not a huge fan of engine bay heat/sparks & the smell of fuel.

Paul, so what kind of price do those Ultra Flex 650 fittings go for?

 

[99gst_racer]

Paul, like Mike I'm curious too, its the vapours that have the explosive issue so would this not be an issue just like any other fuel vapours? Or maybe the concentration isn't high enough to cause any issue?

I've never heard of an explosion as a result of a permeating hose. The amount that actually escapes is very minimal and it dissipates very quickly. This is why you have to get so close to it to smell it. And even though you can smell it, not much is making it's way through the hose. The concentration is not near large enough to promote an explosion.

Most of my co-workers have been racing for over 20 years using SS braided hose, and none have ever had an issue with the escaping gasses. I've had the stuff under my hood for 5 years now and have never had an issue.

The only way an explosion can occur would be if the fuel was boiling, or if the line ruptures.

Paul, so what kind of price do those Ultra Flex 650 fittings go for?

The fittings are a little more reasonable. Straight -6 goes for about $12, and the 90* -6 goes for about $31. A little salty, but not too far off from the price of the standard fittings.

 

[daren_p]

The fittings are a little more reasonable. Straight -6 goes for about $12, and the 90* -6 goes for about $31. A little salty, but not too far off from the price of the standard fittings.

Well that doesn't seem bad, I believe the low profile 90's (for the teflon line) I bought were $30-35 a piece from Summit.

 

[Spoolin98]

Paul and Daren,
Thanks for all the help
You def helped put my mind at ease over the whole situation.

Oh and Daren, I keep a fire extinguisher in my car all the time, its a good thing to have on hand in case something stupid happens with your car or someone elses