it looks like fuel it smells like fuel... is it?

[DevilsAWD]

Hi Everyone,

I recently picked up a 1990 Talon TSI about 6 hours away from my home. the car was running strong so i decieded to drive it back home. (new head, new timing belt, new alternator/belts. new radiator and hoses)

During the drive I was able to pinpoint some key problems with the car. First. the turbo leaks a little oil. ( I suspected this on the "test drive")

one thing I didn't expect was what appears to be a fuel issue. the car was accelerating/boosting just fine for the first 200 miles. then everytime I would put the pedal down the motor wouldn't rev much past 3000 RPM. the car would start "bucking" some trouble lights came on My battery light and one I don't recognize... looks kind of like

O
/ \
|||||

searched for it and couldn't find anything. Anyway's limped it home. Oil pressure, Temp and all other noticable things stayed within very good operating limits.

I pulled the car into the garage and turned it off.

The next day I went back out "fiddle" with the car. replaced the spark plugs. which were not fouled... the instead had a "white" tinge to them. it looked as though they were being starved of fuel.

Replaced the fuel filter, which was severly clogged (doubt it's been done in twenty years. I then tried to start the car. it turned and turned and turned. Finally it started, reved to 2k RPM. then I touched the gas, the car bogged down and died.

I assume fuel pump. however after disconnecting the fuel line at the filter and turning over I am indeed getting some pretty decent fuel flow.

I am building a "boost leak tester" tonight so i can rule out a leak.

so I'm at a loss. I'm getting fuel, but everything appears as though I'm not getting fuel.
perhaps an injector problem?

any help or suggestions on where to look would be awesome!

Thanks,

-Devs

 

[snowborder714]

Here's what the light is.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...olant-tent-memorial-parthenon-dash-light.html

 

[nytescion]

sounds like you had a boost leak. as far as the radiator light/battery light have your alt checked out it might be on it's way out.

 

[DevilsAWD]

Here's what the light is.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...olant-tent-memorial-parthenon-dash-light.html

ah... fluid is full. checked that before we left.

and the alternator is new. the trouble lights went off as soon as the car started running fine again.

Another thing. I pulled the re-circulation hose from the BOV. so is the BOV supposed to be open when at idle? even when the motor is cool...

-Devs

 

[Jdog]

Put the recirculation house on immediately because the car is dumping fuel into the engine like mad because it thinks its going to get all of that air it calculated at the MAS back. Also check boost leaks after you reattach that.

 

[DevilsAWD]

Ok... Put the recirc hose back on and checked for leaks. found a small one at the turbo inlet. Pulled everything off and put back on with new clamps. no more leaks.

got in the car to try and start this and I couldn't believe what I saw

the temp gauge was pegged above "hot" and the car hasn't run for 3 days... oh gee can anyone say coolent temp sensor?

now I feel like an idiot. got a new one but I havn't put it in yet. hope this solves my issue.

-Devs

 

[nytescion]

 

[DevilsAWD]

so correct me if I'm wrong here... but why the hell does my car have 4 different plug ins on the thermostat housing... srsly? do we need all those for something?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Seriously, one is a coolant temperature sensor for the gauge. Another one is a coolant temperature sensor for the ECU. The third one is a thermo-switch for the EGR/Emissions system. The fourth one is another sensor but I don't know what it is for... Emissions maybe?

 

[DevilsAWD]

Ok... Put the recirc hose back on and checked for leaks. found a small one at the turbo inlet. Pulled everything off and put back on with new clamps. no more leaks.

got in the car to try and start this and I couldn't believe what I saw

the temp gauge was pegged above "hot" and the car hasn't run for 3 days... oh gee can anyone say coolent temp sensor?

now I feel like an idiot. got a new one but I havn't put it in yet. hope this solves my issue.

-Devs

Put in the Coolent temp sensor. didn't solve the issue. Car still will not start

also checked the gauge. Still reading full out hot and the car has not started. I assume a short but I don't see how this could cause my starting issue.

so what's next? should I check fuel pressure? perhaps pull some codes? somebody lead me in the right direction?

 

[DevilsAWD]

Seriously, one is a coolant temperature sensor for the gauge. Another one is a coolant temperature sensor for the ECU. The third one is a thermo-switch for the EGR/Emissions system. The fourth one is another sensor but I don't know what it is for... Emissions maybe?

oh hey... speaking of which one is the sensor for the ecu? because I replaced the one on the lower part of the housing. has the connector like this: |_

the one on the top has been spliced before. The spliced in connections seem to be in good order however if the ecu doesn't read a temp is there a safety that keeps the car from starting?

UPDATE:

I pulled the connection off of the "red Sensor" as well as the connection for the gauge next to it.

Car started right up, but of course ran very rich. took it for a drive only to find out the second I hit the gas the car would shudder and jump around. is it strictly the rich condition caused by my sensor doing this? or could it be a TPS doing this?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

also... what does green do?

 

[LKWTSI]

the green marked sensor in your pic, signals the A/C to kick on and off based upon load and temperature of your car. As far as your fuel prob', I'd do two things before running your car much more. First and probably most important right now is IDENTIFY if you have a coolant issue and the car hasn't overheated. Secondly DO a boost leak test and make sure everything is good. Then start looking into fuel issues. Your fuel issues will be of no significance if you car has overheated and blown a gasket.

 

[DevilsAWD]

the green marked sensor in your pic, signals the A/C to kick on and off based upon load and temperature of your car. As far as your fuel prob', I'd do two things before running your car much more. First and probably most important right now is IDENTIFY if you have a coolant issue and the car hasn't overheated. Secondly DO a boost leak test and make sure everything is good. Then start looking into fuel issues. Your fuel issues will be of no significance if you car has overheated and blown a gasket.

A. Confirmed. Car does not overheat. rather a faulty gauge makes it appear as though the car is hot when indeed it is not. (aftermarket, properly installed gauge confirmed this)

B. after disconnecting The "red Sensor"... the car fired up on the first turn. when connected and cold the car will turn and turn and turn with no start.

I'm no mechanic, but I have a theory: If the wiring to the ECU sends that the car is extremely cold (IE: sensor not connected) then the fuel system will compensate and dump a ton of fuel into the cylinders in order to fire. However, If the sensor reads hot, then the computer compensates this by throwing just enough fuel to start. So if the car is really cold viola... no start.

to me, .02 this indicates a wiring/ecu issue.

Then there is the matter with the car running/boosting correctly. I found a small boost leak which I fixed a couple of days ago. Just for funzies I tested again and confirmed no leaks.

can anyone concurr my theory? anybody have any other ideas. once again

Starting issue:

Running with boost issue:

-Devs

 

[DevilsAWD]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

So. found out something super cool today.

The red plug. the one that goes to my ECU. When unplugged the car starts and runs like crap.

While at idle everything sounds good. but the second you plug in said sensor the car immediatly dies

So. the sensor is new. I blame the wiring...

anybody have any idea where to start? any particular spot on this lead that could be causing this? a fuse perhaps. the wiring at the plug is a little marred up and the wire is showing so this could be the spot.

 

[rush2252]

does the gauge shoot up to hot whenever you turn the key to ON?

The way you describe it dying after plugging in the coolant sensor seems very strange. Pull the ECU maybe theres goo leaking all over its hard to tell what areas will be effected whenever you start having the "leaky capacitor" problem.

Kolby

EDIT** Is it possible the sensor you installed is giving an incorrect OHM reading? If this didnt solve the problem with the gauge and it would start and run with the old sensor but not the new one its only logical that the new sensor didnt fix anything but only caused another issue.

 

[DevilsAWD]

does the gauge shoot up to hot whenever you turn the key to ON?

The way you describe it dying after plugging in the coolant sensor seems very strange. Pull the ECU maybe theres goo leaking all over its hard to tell what areas will be effected whenever you start having the "leaky capacitor" problem.

Kolby

EDIT** Is it possible the sensor you installed is giving an incorrect OHM reading? If this didnt solve the problem with the gauge and it would start and run with the old sensor but not the new one its only logical that the new sensor didnt fix anything but only caused another issue.

the gauge is always set to "HOT" when the key is on. that is until the car gets hot and then the gauge reads normally.

checking the ecu was the next step. I also assumed there is a fuse for this circut as well? anyway... where is the ECU located in these cars?

-Devs

P.S and with the old sensor the car would just turn over. this starting problem is one that appeared as soon as I got the car into my driveway after a 6 hour drive. odd I know.

 

[DevilsAWD]

does the gauge shoot up to hot whenever you turn the key to ON?

The way you describe it dying after plugging in the coolant sensor seems very strange. Pull the ECU maybe theres goo leaking all over its hard to tell what areas will be effected whenever you start having the "leaky capacitor" problem.

Kolby

EDIT** Is it possible the sensor you installed is giving an incorrect OHM reading? If this didnt solve the problem with the gauge and it would start and run with the old sensor but not the new one its only logical that the new sensor didnt fix anything but only caused another issue.

Well... pulled the ECU. And I don't want to call the guy who was making fun of me for driving a pontiac right... but there is quite a bit of goo leaking on the board... the outlined area is the affected area.

(oddly this looks like a penis)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

huh

-Devs

 

[snowborder714]

Looks like it's time to send it in to be serviced.

 

[DevilsAWD]

Looks like it's time to send it in to be serviced.

it would appear, but where should I send it in and approx cost?

would that just need to be cleaned?

I doubt it. for one thing it doesn't stop the capicitors (sp?) from leaking. so those need to be replaced as well. I would consider picking up a used unit if I wasn't so sure that the used one would have the same issue.

there is also quite a bit of corrosion around the other points. that is probably why I had this issue in the first place so they may need replaced as well.

who knows. I think I'll leave that to a professional to find out.

-Devs

 

[DevilsAWD]

Yea so what do they leak?

ya. I have read on this site in multiple places. the only way to fix this is to replace the capictors. There are three I thought, But I only see 2 on the board.

 

[snowborder714]

Send an e-mail to [email protected] and include a good picture (not the one above - if you take another one that close, use macro mode on your camera). I believe Tom will do it for pretty cheap.

 

[burkgonzo]

what kinda fluid comes out when they leak???

 

[DevilsAWD]

what kinda fluid comes out when they leak???

not sure... but it's a brown goop that smells like rotten tuna.

Send an e-mail to [email protected] and include a good picture (not the one above - if you take another one that close, use macro mode on your camera). I believe Tom will do it for pretty cheap.

ya, camera phone FTL

awesome advice though I will throw him an email as soon as I can get my hands on an actual camera!

 

[DevilsAWD]

So.

I cleaned the ecu, still no start.

I'm going to wait and just get an AEM EMS since my car was bought originally for a track car.

also in the mean time I broke both connections (Red and Green) at the connector. can I buy these to splice in?