Road Racing: Nasa Rules And Preparation Specs

[Slow old poop]

ROLL CAGE Qs:

Referring to Section 15.6 Roll Cage

15.6.3 Installation. "The cage may be removable" implies that bolt-in cages are acceptable. I have a Kirk 6 point bolt-in cage, but one NASA instructor told me that the cage has to be all-welded. 15.6.14.A talks about a bolt-in cage. Does this mean a bolt-in cage is acceptable?

15.6.7 Diagonal brace. Please explain in English. Is this the B-E bar in the diagram on page 63? I don't have the third hoop (the Eclipse is a hatchback), so would my diagonal have to go across the corners of the two loops?

15.6.12 Door Bars. Please explain. Do they have to be an X, as in the diagram, or just a straight bar back-to-front?

15.6.20 Inspection
How many inspection holes? In every bar?
All welds must be accessible? What about the ones wrapped in foam?
How often do we do these inspections? Every race? Or once a season?

15.6.21 Head Restraint
My Kirkey race seat is very tall, extending almost to the bottom of the roll bar. Will this suffice?

15.6.22 Seat Back Support.
My Kirkey nestles right in the roll hoop behind the driver. I could easily bolt a brace to the roll hoop that would prevent the seat from going back. Or do you want something more elegant?

Do these rules --head restraint, seat back support - apply to the passenger seat, too? (Stock seat, at present). If I take the passenger seat out, would I be OK? If I take the passenger seat out, how will the NASA instructor ride along to certify me?

Rich

 

[Slow old poop]

MASTER CUTOFF SWITCH
Any guidance on what to buy for the master cutoff switch and where to install it?

I have a rear-mounted battery (back in the right rear corner) and suspect that I could put the master switch in the right rear fender or I could put the switch in the right front fender near where the power cable comes out.

Photos of an existing system would be nice.

LOCKING STEERING WHEEL

We are not permitted to have a locking steering wheel. What does this entail?
--Remove the ignition switch and replace with on-off and starter switches?
--Modify the switch so it doesn't lock the steering wheel?

FIRE EXTINGUISHER MOUNTING
Does the fire extinguisher have to be reachable by an emergency crew from outside the car? I was going to clamp it to the roll cage or bolt it to the floor between the seats, but then nobody could reach it but me. (The rules say I have to put a decal on the car closest to the fire extinguisher, which implies that the crew would be able to reach in and get it. )

DECALS
We are s'posed to have a fire extinguisher decal, a cutoff switch decal, and a big orange rookie badge. Where do you get such things?

TOW HOOKS
We need tow hooks front and rear.
Guidance? Where to put them? I'm not sure of the structural requirements of tow hooks.
Photos would be nice.
(The old 3000GT was nice, because it had four tow hooks that were used to tie it down on the boat coming over from Japan, but DSMs don't have any)

NASA INSPECTION STATIONS
Any NASA inspection stations in the Midwest?


Rich

 

[terefic181]

ROLL CAGE Qs:

Referring to Section 15.6 Roll Cage

15.6.3 Installation. "The cage may be removable" implies that bolt-in cages are acceptable. I have a Kirk 6 point bolt-in cage, but one NASA instructor told me that the cage has to be all-welded. 15.6.14.A talks about a bolt-in cage. Does this mean a bolt-in cage is acceptable?

They are acceptable as far as I know. Greg runs a Autopower bolt in cage, I believe.

15.6.7 Diagonal brace. Please explain in English. Is this the B-E bar in the diagram on page 63? I don't have the third hoop (the Eclipse is a hatchback), so would my diagonal have to go across the corners of the two loops?

That graphic is a little hard to read. The diagonal is going from the top driver's side of your main hoop to the bottom of that same hoop, on the passenger's side. That is another bar going from B down to the bottom of the main hoop. (part of the X brace on the passenger side)

15.6.12 Door Bars. Please explain. Do they have to be an X, as in the diagram, or just a straight bar back-to-front?
You can run Nascar horizontal type, but they need to be multiple bars (I beleive at least 2). They basicly want good coverage of the door area. It's what keeps the boogy man out.


15.6.20 Inspection
How many inspection holes? In every bar? They need to be in the main bars. (main hoop, side hoops etc) Look at the diagram and the ones that are marked as optional plus any additional, shouldn't need one.

All welds must be accessible? What about the ones wrapped in foam? They can see it before you put your foam on.

How often do we do these inspections? Every race? Or once a season? At the begining of the season and any other time they want to check it(after an incident, spot check, etc).

15.6.21 Head Restraint. My Kirkey race seat is very tall, extending almost to the bottom of the roll bar. Will this suffice? No, I think you're talking about a personal head restraint. I'll have to recheck this. They are talking about requiring a Han's or simmilar device possibly this year. Re-checked this. (edit)They are asking for a block of material, ensolite or simmilar material, to pad the seat back where your helmet will contact if you have a mishap. I have a 6x6x1 inch peice there.

15.6.22 Seat Back Support.
My Kirkey nestles right in the roll hoop behind the driver. I could easily bolt a brace to the roll hoop that would prevent the seat from going back. Or do you want something more elegant? I did my own. It needs to be bolted to the cage and they want it to be sturdy enough and correctly engineered to hold properly, in a mishap.

Do these rules --head restraint, seat back support - apply to the passenger seat, too? (Stock seat, at present). If I take the passenger seat out, would I be OK? If I take the passenger seat out, how will the NASA instructor ride along to certify me?


This is a good question. I know belts etc have to meet the same requirements for the passenger as they do for the driver. The head restraint is a personal gear type device <(edit, see above). I would just put a regular seat in if you need to have someone with you for your (exam). I beleive mostlikely they will just follow/ watch you for your qualifications though.

Of course there can always be interpretations of the rules

Tom

 

[terefic181]

MASTER CUTOFF SWITCH
Any guidance on what to buy for the master cutoff switch and where to install it?

Just a standard cutoff switch w/ alternator kill, from any of the race shops etc. It needs to cut the power through your alternator also, so as to not use the alternator to keep running. You want the switch to be accessable to the corner workers etc from outside the vehicle. Maybe inside close to one of your front windows.

I have a rear-mounted battery (back in the right rear corner) and suspect that I could put the master switch in the right rear fender or I could put the switch in the right front fender near where the power cable comes out.

Photos of an existing system would be nice.

LOCKING STEERING WHEEL

We are not permitted to have a locking steering wheel. What does this entail?
--Remove the ignition switch and replace with on-off and starter switches?
--Modify the switch so it doesn't lock the steering wheel? or remove everything and add a starter switch. They are interested in the lock only.

FIRE EXTINGUISHER MOUNTING
Does the fire extinguisher have to be reachable by an emergency crew from outside the car? I was going to clamp it to the roll cage or bolt it to the floor between the seats, but then nobody could reach it but me. (The rules say I have to put a decal on the car closest to the fire extinguisher, which implies that the crew would be able to reach in and get it. )

Another good question. It should be where you can get to it. The decal is placed at the best location for personnel to reach a handheld or a release for a full fire system.
DECALS
We are s'posed to have a fire extinguisher decal, a cutoff switch decal, and a big orange rookie badge. Where do you get such things? NASA in person, race shops online. edit)>I just received some of these along with some others from this supplier. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=DECSCCA
TOW HOOKS
We need tow hooks front and rear.
Guidance? Where to put them? I'm not sure of the structural requirements of tow hooks.
Photos would be nice. I'll post some pix's and Greg has some also I'm sure.
(The old 3000GT was nice, because it had four tow hooks that were used to tie it down on the boat coming over from Japan, but DSMs don't have any)

NASA INSPECTION STATIONS
Any NASA inspection stations in the Midwest? Check with you region (Dave maybe)


Rich

I'll look up some photos and post them for you.

Tom

 

[terefic181]

Here are some pix's. You might take a look at Gregs gallery, and some of the other guys, I'm sure they have some different ways of doing these things.


Tom

Edit) added pix.

 

[Slow old poop]

Thanx for the pics. Those are some of the questions I was going to get to when the time was right. A question I have is about seats. I'm 6'2" and 245lbs and the only seats I find that will fit me aren't FIA approved. Anyone know of a seat that might fit me or can point me to a website or shop where I can find out?

Been there, done that. When I bought my Eclipse, it had an expensive seat fit for a midget. I couldn't even get in the dang thing. If I got in, I couldn't get out. So I bought a Kirkey seat, which fits me just fine. I am 6 ft 4, about 240. It's a Kirkey 36900, 18 in wide, which fits my fat butt just fine. ($134.95 in the Simpson catalog plus $59.95 for a seat cover).

Make sure you get a WIDE seat. Your best bet is to go to a race shop and try some on for size, or at least to get an idea of your butt size. To mount a wide seat in an AWD DSM, you need a 10 lb sledge hammer, so you can beat down the driveshaft tunnel to make room. (That's a fun job: you got one guy beating on the car and another under the car to make sure you don't beat the tunnel into anything vital. The guys had a lot of fun whanging on my poor car that day!)

One problem you might have is clearance for your big head (well, I assume that, being 6-2, you have a big head, too.) My fat head bangs into the roll cage on the left and the roof above, so we had to mount the seat low. We fabbed up a seat mount out of 3-in-wide steel, but you can try a slider if you like. I saw a guy get hurt real bad after mounting a race seat on a slider, so we didn't even think about using a slider. Making the seat mount is a PITA because, with the wide seat, there is not a lot of room.

Us guys with big butts certainly have seat problems but, on the other hand, you don't drive a spike with a tack hammer, right? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

I'll be buying another Kirkey for the passenger side, but it won't be that wide. Maybe a 15 wide, so we don't have to beat the tunnel down any more.

Rich

 

[Zero Bar]

Here are some pix's. You might take a look at Gregs gallery, and some of the other guys, I'm sure they have some different ways of doing these things.


Tom

Edit) added pix.

Thanx for the pics. Those are some of the questions I was going to get to when the time was right. A question I have is about seats. I'm 6'2" and 245lbs and the only seats I find that will fit me aren't FIA approved. Anyone know of a seat that might fit me or can point me to a website or shop where I can find out?

 

[Zero Bar]

Heh, I don't have the problem of AWD. My concern is simply finding a good seat that is FIA approved and get it mounted properly. I did find a site that carried Kirkey's and it's about what I'm looking for. I didn't see anything about being FIA certified though?? Also do they support 5 & 6 point harnesses? As far as height, those seats are much thinner and lower the seating position but I guess I'll have to wait and see. I'll probably want to do a custom mount anyway to get it far enough back and low too.

 

[terefic181]

Heh, I don't have the problem of AWD. My concern is simply finding a good seat that is FIA approved and get it mounted properly. I did find a site that carried Kirkey's and it's about what I'm looking for. I didn't see anything about being FIA certified though?? Also do they support 5 & 6 point harnesses? As far as height, those seats are much thinner and lower the seating position but I guess I'll have to wait and see. I'll probably want to do a custom mount anyway to get it far enough back and low too.

I use a Kirkey seat also, my butt is a little narrower, I guess. I believe I have a 15" seat, but still had to beat on my tunnel a little. I just bolted my seat to a 3/16"? sheet of aluminum and then bolted the aluminum plate, to the original (car) seat attathment points. The Kirkey seat I have does accomodate the 5 point system.

I'm not sure of the reason why you are looking for an FIA approved seat. If it is only to satisfy NASA rules, I don't think you will need one for that reason. They seem to require you to have an FIA seat if your not going to utilize a seatback support.

From NASA CCR>

15.6.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a
crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects
should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in
a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is
recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this,
as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception may be made for those seats
homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards. Those
seats that qualify for the aforementioned exception must conform to the entire FIA 8855-
1999 set of regulations. This includes a mandatory seat replacement of any seat more
than five (5) years old. Please reference the FIA regulations. http://www.fia.com/

15.16.1 Racing Seat
Some series require and approved racing seat. It is strongly recommend that a racing
seat be installed in all vehicles. A racing seat is of solid design; not "tube and cloth"
designs commonly found in passenger cars. It can be very difficult to properly brace a
"tube and cloth" type seat and the vehicle may not pass technical inspection.
Additionally, the cloth or material on a "stock" seat is typically not flame retardant.
Therefore, the proper installation of a racing is strongly recommended.

Tom

edit) added pix

 

[Zero Bar]

Maybe I misread the rules somewhere. I read it as a FIA approved seat was required for Road Racing which what I plan to do. If that's not the case then that's great and I can get the seat I've been wanting and just get that seat back support. As for the harnesses, obviously 5 point is a must and a seat that supportts a 6 point would be great too if they end up requiring a 6 point in the future. Thanx for clearing that up.

 

[terefic181]

Maybe I misread the rules somewhere. I read it as a FIA approved seat was required for Road Racing which what I plan to do. If that's not the case then that's great and I can get the seat I've been wanting and just get that seat back support. As for the harnesses, obviously 5 point is a must and a seat that supportts a 6 point would be great too if they end up requiring a 6 point in the future. Thanx for clearing that up.

I could have missed something, but I don't think so. I also checked the Honda Challenge series rules and I didn't see any specific (superseding the CCR) seat rules for them. NASA didn't have anything negative to say about my Kirkey seat when my roll cage was race teched. If you want to be absolutely sure before you buy your seat, I would contact:
From one of Rich's post.

Dave Royce
NASA Midwest Director
310-739-9205


or

Lawrence Mansier, Region Director
NASA OH/ IN Chapter
NASA Midwest Region
149 Essex Lane
Medina, OH 44256
330.421.1900
[email protected]

Tom

 

[mavisky]

Your seat doesn't have to be certified FIA, I've got my corbeau in mine for now that I'll be using for autox and HPDE days. If and when I get into the wheel to wheel action I'll be using a kirkey i'm sure.

 

[Zero Bar]

Your seat doesn't have to be certified FIA, I've got my corbeau in mine for now that I'll be using for autox and HPDE days. If and when I get into the wheel to wheel action I'll be using a kirkey i'm sure.

Drop that "If" and it'll all be good. The Kirkey is a seat I'm looking at. Though I found a Recaro that I like and will fit me and more comfortable than the Kirkey.

 

[number3]

Do they look for a transmission scatter shield?

I know a few road race guys have contacted me about one recently.

 

[mavisky]

Do they look for a transmission scatter shield?

I know a few road race guys have contacted me about one recently.

I don't remember seeing the need for one mentioned in there, but I'm sure it would be a nice thing to have for peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[Greg Collier]

Do they look for a transmission scatter shield?

I know a few road race guys have contacted me about one recently.

NO scatter shield is required, if you're pushing your motor to that extreme you'll be driving off the track...

 

[number3]

My guess would be that miss shifts would create more of a problem than intentionally "pushing" your motor too far.

 

[mavisky]

My guess would be that miss shifts would create more of a problem than intentionally "pushing” your motor too far.

Noone misses shifts here do they Greg

 

[Zero Bar]

Wait....is that what that 3rd pedal is for??

 

[mavisky]

Wait....is that what that 3rd pedal is for??

3rd pedal Our cars have 3 pedals WTF

 

[Greg Collier]

Noone misses shifts here do they Greg

What? Even 5th to 3rd at 120mph didn't break anything apart.

A shift fork and a sychro ring

By the way... if my spelling sucks it's Chris's fault

 

[mavisky]

What? Even 5th to 3rd at 120mph didn't break anything apart.

A shift fork and a sychro ring

By the way... if my spelling sucks it's Chris's fault

Missed a n in synchro, but spell check wouldn't have gotten that anyways I bet. We understand. Don't worry Greg, I did the 3-2 shift at 8900rpm and spun the rear balance shaft bearings once myself.

 

[Greg Collier]

I'm sorry I haven't been on top of it here... so much to do so little time. I figured a picture is worth a thousand words and we all know I can write a thousand words with ease

I tried to put photos regarding the questions that have been asked, and probably some that Tom has already done (don't mean to step on any toes here Mr. Dixon). With the bolt on cage you need to have a quarter inch plate steel underneath each body connection and have the bolts all double nutted. The seat support to the roll cage is essential to pass tech. The tow hooks are required and there's a couple of race equipment sites that sell them, if yopu need that info I'll look it up. If you're putting a rear battery box in, it needs to be vented with a min. of a half inch tube. You'll see my master switch attached to the roll cage on the passenger side for easy access, along with my fire system pull for the corner worker. The fire system isn't required but a bottle secured to the roll cage or floor is. Whenever you're attaching anything through the body a large fender washer is required. I always bring an extra two dozen for people at the first annual tech of the season. It's really cool, I only charge $10.00 a washer ? just kidding... people are so grateful when I'm handing them out like candy... I know I forgot something so I'll read my own post

EDit: Roll cage inspection holes are required in one side bar and the main hoop. They usually have a battery operated drill at the annual tech inspection so don't fret... Hey these guys really want to see you out on the track so they'll do whatever's necessary to help you!

Greg WERE'S MY SPEL CHUCK?

 

[terefic181]

...I tried to put photos regarding the questions that have been asked, and probably some that Tom has already done (don't mean to step on any toes here Mr. Dixon).
Greg ...

EEEEECH, OUCHHHH, OHCHHHHH, my toes!!

Nope no toes aching hear. Great pictures Greg.

 

[Zero Bar]

Nice looking setup Greg. I like the location of the fire supression/power switches. I am surprised you have a bolt-in cage, any advantages/disadvantages between that and a welded in cage?