Road Racing: Nasa Rules And Preparation Specs

[Greg Collier]

Nice looking setup Greg. I like the location of the fire supression/power switches. I am surprised you have a bolt-in cage, any advantages/disadvantages between that and a welded in cage?

I would have had a welded cage but lack of time (now we'd have to strip everything we've done out of the car)... With the welded cage you're able to have definite stiffening points for the structure of the car. It's on the to-do list of over a million things

 

[pkieley]

Excellent pics Greg AND Tom. Thanks!

Greg, is that your one and only electrical disconnect? Can the Autopower cage be welded in?

 

[Greg Collier]

Excellent pics Greg AND Tom. Thanks!

Greg, is that your one and only electrical disconnect? Can the Autopower cage be welded in?

That's my main disconnect for corner workers, I have another disconnet on the dash (same as the fire system).

Yes the Autopower can be welded. I've already welded on NASCAR bars in the doors.

 

[Slapnut]

Can anyone tell me what class to run my 92 mits mirage 2dr in?? w/ a jdm 4g63n/a?

 

[mavisky]

Can anyone tell me what class to run my 92 mits mirage 2dr in?? w/ a jdm 4g63n/a?

Are you talking wheel to wheel racing or time trials. In time trials they have a penalty for engine swaps that would apply I know. In actual wheel to wheel racing you may well end up in Super Unlimited with the likes of Greg and others due to the combination of parts you're running.

 

[Microrcdude]

if your running SCCA club racing ITE or SPU would be the way to go. although you may be waay slow in ITE so id go with SPU.

for NASA road racing, i believe that the super unlimited class is your best bet.

 

[Slow old poop]

I have to weld door bars onto my Kirk bolt-in cage.
It looks like they may protrude into the doors.
What do the rules say about door bars?

If they go into the doors, does this mean I gotta take out my power windows?

If so, what are my alternatives?
Crank windows?
No windows?

Kinda hard to drive it on the street with no windows, 'specailly if it's raining.
How about those old MG-TD sliding plexiglass windows?

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

I have to weld door bars onto my Kirk bolt-in cage.
It looks like they may protrude into the doors.
What do the rules say about door bars?

If they go into the doors, does this mean I gotta take out my power windows?

If so, what are my alternatives?
Crank windows?
No windows?

Kinda hard to drive it on the street with no windows, 'specailly if it's raining.
How about those old MG-TD sliding plexiglass windows?

Rich

NASA would prefer you put in door bars. Get poloycarbonate (it's fairly cheap) and "snaps" to snap in or out the windows. (I did that and it works great) If need be Mr. Rich, I can take a photo for you. NO WINDOW UP ALLOWED ON TRACK UNLESS THEY'RE PLASTIC.

 

[Greg Collier]

if your running SCCA club racing ITE or SPU would be the way to go. although you may be waay slow in ITE so id go with SPU.

for NASA road racing, i believe that the super unlimited class is your best bet.

NASA will be announcing new class next week called; "PRO-TOURING", no more ITE, SPU, PS, SRT, GTI... check out my announcement on the START A DSM SERIES thread...

 

[Slow old poop]

NASA would prefer you put in door bars. Get poloycarbonate (it's fairly cheap) and "snaps" to snap in or out the windows. (I did that and it works great) If need be Mr. Rich, I can take a photo for you. NO WINDOW UP ALLOWED ON TRACK UNLESS THEY'RE PLASTIC.

Yes, I would like to see pix.

You didn't answer the first question, about the door bars. Do they HAVE to protrude into the door? If not, I can keep my windows (for the time being, anyway).

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

Yes, I would like to see pix.

You didn't answer the first question, about the door bars. Do they HAVE to protrude into the door? If not, I can keep my windows (for the time being, anyway).

Rich

Rich, Rich, Rich... You sound like you're getting ready for a race season! The answer isssssssssssss... NO they don't have to protrude, they just usually do
Keep your sissy windows

EDIT: So I don't have to do the pictures for you now? Right?

 

[Slow old poop]

By the bye, we'll be assembling the 2.3 stroker motor this weekend.
Got the 2.3 short block and prepped head from the builders, a gasket set from Rockville Mitsubishi, a titanium gasket for the turbo, and a brand-new cherry picker, so we might even get the mutha sitting in the car this weekend.

Still gotta get the parts to remove the cruise control*, a new K&N, kill switch, and some strong-ass clamps for the turbo lines, but things are lookin' up. The end is actually in sight.

Once I can drive it, we'll see about getting door bars and a seat brace welded in.

To put 500 break-in miles on it here in Iowa, I'll need windows, though. Maybe we'll go plexiglass after the break in. I can just see me cruising down the boulevard with snow howling though open windows.

Rich

*It was a One Lap car, so it still has the cruise control.

 

[terefic181]

Yes, I would like to see pix.

You didn't answer the first question, about the door bars. Do they HAVE to protrude into the door? If not, I can keep my windows (for the time being, anyway).

Rich

Rich,

As Greg said they don't have to protrude into the door. The advantage (of in the door) is it gives you a little more room and a liitle more space between you and the cage bars incase of an impact.

I don't have bars in the door see below:
edit) changed pix

 

[Slapnut]

do the doors have to open? if not skin them and weld them back on

 

[Greg Collier]

do the doors have to open? if not skin them and weld them back on

Doors MUST open!

 

[Slapnut]

BAH!!!!!!

 

[Slow old poop]

MASTER CUTOFF SWITCH
Any guidance on what to buy for the master cutoff switch and where to install it?

Just a standard cutoff switch w/ alternator kill, from any of the race shops etc. It needs to cut the power through your alternator also, so as to not use the alternator to keep running. You want the switch to be accessable to the corner workers etc from outside the vehicle. Maybe inside close to one of your front windows.

When I picked up my 4-pole kill switch at the speed shop today, the guy showed me how he mounted it on a dragster. He mounted the kill switch INSIDE the body, with a cable to a PUSH/PULL handle. The label outside said PULL OFF/PUSH ON.

Wow! If that's legal, that means I could mount the switch inside the engine compartment with a cable handle protruding from the grille. No holes in the bodywork!

Whaddaya think?

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

When I picked up my 4-pole kill switch at the speed shop today, the guy showed me how he mounted it on a dragster. He mounted the kill switch INSIDE the body, with a cable to a PUSH/PULL handle. The label outside said PULL OFF/PUSH ON.

Wow! If that's legal, that means I could mount the switch inside the engine compartment with a cable handle protruding from the grille. No holes in the bodywork!

Whaddaya think?

Rich

You better make sure that's Kosher before you do that Rich. Remember a corner worker shouldn't try to have to figure out how to turn your car off in a live or death situation. I mean these guys stand in the hot sun all day and you want to try an make it as easy as possible. They'd be looking for the kill switch on either the drivers or passenger side mirror area...

Greg

 

[Slow old poop]

You better make sure that's Kosher before you do that Rich. Remember a corner worker shouldn't try to have to figure out how to turn your car off in a live or death situation. I mean these guys stand in the hot sun all day and you want to try an make it as easy as possible. They'd be looking for the kill switch on either the drivers or passenger side mirror area...

Greg

That's why I asked. Remember, there will be the big lightning bolt decal showing where it is, and a label that says PULL OFF/PUSH ON right at the T-handle.

Drag racers apparently do this all the time.

Rich

 

[Slow old poop]

I raised this question over on Greg's Thread, so let me put it up over here where it belongs.

I ran a 3000GT track car for about five years, and had some outrageously good brakes at the end: 13.5 in. Coleman two-piece rotors with Porsche Big Red calipers. They stopped that 4,000 lb car very well. It ate brake pads, but that's what you expect with a 4,000 lb car.

My question is this: Has anyone ever tried to adapt 2nd gen (94 up) 3000GT calipers and rotors to a DSM? The bolt pattern is the same. Seems like all you'd need would be a bracket for the caliper and some 2nd gen 3000GT 17 in. wheels (or equivalent) to clear the caliper.

If that works, then a 3000GT conversion would be a relatively cheap brake upgrade -- maybe 1/3 to half the cost of Stoptechs. Going from there to the Big Red conversion would be a stop-like-hitting-a-brick-wall upgrade, for about the same cost of Stoptechs, but with rotors that cost half as much. And then there is yet another Big Red conversion with 14 x 1.5 in. Colemans that goes even beyond that for stopping power. Those brakes are so outrageous, it takes two laps just to warm them up on a 3000GT, they never fade, and they never warp.

Seems like the key to all this fantastic braking would be the conversion to 3000GT rotors and calipers. Anybody ever try it?

James, the Great Fabricator, says we might have a problem with the master cylinder and the volume of fluid required by those big calipers. What's involved there?

I have Stoptechs now, but I am very unhappy with the way the rotors crack, and the extremely high cost of replacement rotors. I'd convert to Big Reds in a New York minute if they worked on a DSM.

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

What's the weight difference between the 3000GT calipers and the Stoptechs? The master cylinder change sounds kind of tricky but if it can be done it's a great concept!

Rich, I remember you were having some hub problems last year, did you end up changing your bearings?

Greg

 

[Slow old poop]

What's the weight difference between the 3000GT calipers and the Stoptechs? The master cylinder change sounds kind of tricky but if it can be done it's a great concept!

Dunno. I don't have a spare set anymore. I'd guess about the same. It's a four-piston caliper,

[/QUOTE]Rich, I remember you were having some hub problems last year, did you end up changing your bearings?
Greg[/QUOTE]

As you remember, I was having pad knockback problems, requiring a couple of pumps on the brake pedal after a hard turn. I changed one hub. The other had just been changed. It helped.

I also got some special valves that keep 3 psi pressure on the caliper pistons to prevent pad knockback. I just went out to the garage to find 'em so I could tell you exactly what they are but, as luck would have it, they've disappeared somewhere in the madness of trying to get my engine running.

 

[Greg Collier]

I also got some special valves that keep 3 psi pressure on the caliper pistons to prevent pad knockback. I just went out to the garage to find 'em so I could tell you exactly what they are but, as luck would have it, they've disappeared somewhere in the madness of trying to get my engine running.

I'd like to know about those valves when you get a chance. The madness in the garage is going around... big time

Greg

 

[Slow old poop]

I'd like to know about those valves when you get a chance. The madness in the garage is going around... big time

Greg

Finally found the valve. I think my garage eats parts. We carefully put all the nuts and bolts in plastic baggies, lebeled them, and still had to order a bunch of things like a motor mount bolt, transfer case bolt, fuel rail spacers and on and on. Where did they go? The only answer I have is that my garage eats parts. My clothers dryer does the same thing to socks.

The valve is a Wilwood Residual Pressure Valve that keeps 2 psi pressure on the caliper. According to the literature, "This valve prevents fluid flow-back to the master cylinder reservoir which can cause excessive brake travel or 'pumping' of the pedal to engage brakes." Sounds like it would be perfect to prevent pad knockback.

They (two) are supposed to be mounted as close to the master cylinder as possible. We haven't figured out a good place to put them yet. Seems to me they should go on the caliper itself, but they want it at the master cylinder.

Anybody here installed a set of these on a DSM?

Rich

 

[Zero Bar]

I have the n/a 3000gt brakes on the front of my car, I can't say for sure about the VR-4 brakes. Mine were a direct bolt-up.