[RESOLVED] Users of the turbonetics t3t4

[rstchris]

I currently have a e3 16g, ported 2g mani and tubular o2 and a friend of mine has a Turbonetics t3t4 (i'm not sure of the specs but looks like a 50trim) with a evolution WG and treadstone t3 cast mani. I have the oportunity to trade +cash but I would like some feedback from any users of that turbo before I go for it. TIA

 

[clockworktoy]

Well its hard to speak about a turbo without knowing what kind of turbo it is. I have a turbonetics 60-1 and im happy with it although there are far better turbos out there right now.

 

[gstryyder]

I would stick with what you have right now... Maybe get a few more needed upgrades and push that 16g a bit harder.

Get things that will benefit your car in the long run no matter what turbo you're running; most will even benefit more when you have a bigger turbo and go for more power(especially ANY necessary maintenance). When you have everything all setup nice n how you want it go buy the necessary upgrades that you haven't already done to support THE TURBO that you have researched and CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT.. LoL and buy it nice n new if you can (or get a smokin deal from someone) and drop your new turbo in with your other upgrades. Tune it and it will be a hell of a beast as soon as you get done tuning it.

I suspect that you know your way around a DSM. And know what ya need. And know what that turbo you have on your car can do. Just wait. It's not worth it in my opinion...

Good Luck, with whatever you decide to do.

 

[rstchris]

I really like the 16g, don't get me wrong. I love that it spools crazy fast but I have every bolt-on that's not extravegant (6bolt IM instead of magnus) but I don't want cams and head work at this point but i'm still lookin for kinda big power.

 

[DSM_PWR]

Please neverpost T3/T4 again....

There's no such thing... with

A) T3 Flange
B) T4 Flange

 

[rstchris]

Please neverpost T3/T4 again....

There's no such thing... with

A) T3 Flange
B) T4 Flange

Look at Turbonetics website. It is a T3/T4 cause it has a "T3" turbine housing and a "To4b" compressor wheele and cover. It's a "hybrid"
The dif. between the 60-1 and the 50 trim is that the 60-1 is designed to make bigger power on lower boost levels where the 50 and 60 trim turbos are eficient at higher boost levels. (over 20 psi)

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ The only way you'll make more power at lower boost is with a larger better flowing turbine. All t3 stage3 turbine wheels in the same housing, regardless of compressor wheel make about the same horsepower (flow about the same) at the same boost.

Commonly, the 60-1 comes in the t04E cover not the B cover that the map represents. This alters efficiency at diffferent boost levels. I.E. the fpred provides better "pull" at higher boost than the fpgreen, typically. The fpred is a 60-1 compressor in an Ecover and the fpgreen is a 50trim compressor in an Ecover.

The t-netics website along with most others discuss POTENTIAL flow, the horsepower that the volume flow of the compressor can support. They don't discuss turbine flow,a nd most don't even provide a turbine flow map.

Your t3/t4 could support 700whp, or only 350whp depending on the compressor specs and turbine wheel specs and TURBINE HOUSING specs.

 

[JusMX141]

I never liked Turbonetics from the get-go. They don't use Garrett wheels or internals on their turbos (not that Garrett wheels or internals make the turbo more reliable; look at Precision's horrible reliability among DSMs), yet they can somehow charge more than what a new Garrett turbo costs for the same size turbo.

If anyone can enlighten me as to what makes a Turbonetics turbo better than it's Garrett counterpart aside from a nifty polished compressor cover, I'd love to lend an ear.

I really like the 16g, don't get me wrong. I love that it spools crazy fast but I have every bolt-on that's not extravegant (6bolt IM instead of magnus)

I hope you're not using that 6-bolt intake manifold on an unported 2G head.

...but I don't want cams and head work at this point but i'm still lookin for kinda big power.

You're not going to make big power without some type of cam upgrade, and a 50-trim isn't known as a "big power" turbo, either.

The dif. between the 60-1 and the 50 trim is that the 60-1 is designed to make bigger power on lower boost levels where the 50 and 60 trim turbos are eficient at higher boost levels. (over 20 psi)

Not necessarily.

The 60-1 will work better at higher boost than the 50-trim, not vice-versa. If that were the case you'd have alot more guys running around with 60-1's on their cars; instead, we have the 60-1 in a dying market, losing out to turbos made by Holset and Borg Warner which spool faster and generate more total airflow.

The biggest problem with most 60-1 turbos is they're assembled with a turbine wheel that is too small to handle the flow potential of the 60-1 compressor (namely the T31). Companies do this to gain a favorable spool (the exducer of the 50-trim and 60-1 compressors are nearly identical), but what they don't realize is you're limiting yourself as to how much airflow can be produced.

I've seen firsthand where a 60-1 (which has the potential to generate 55+lb/min) is limited to 47-48lb/min because of a restrictive turbine. If all you can make is 47-48lb/min with a 60-1, you're better off with a 50-trim- at least you'll gain a few hundred RPM's of spool.


I don't know where you came up with the assumption that a bigger turbo is going to give you more power; your engine as well as the rest of your setup must be able to make use of the addtional airflow a bigger turbo will provide, otherwise the only thing you're going to gain is lag.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

A treadstone / turblownetics manifold is a horribly cast piece of crap manifold. Granted, it's been proven, but not without modification.

Putting a wastegate on 1 runner is a VERY BAD idear. What happens if you need more than 25% of the air mass wastegated to control boost. Are you REALLY expecting gas to revert back through the #1 runner to control boost?

Again, very bad design.

 

[dsm-onster]

Meh, a 2g manifold had gone to 9's and the turbonetics is clearly an upgrade. Guys with small turbine wheels have done 600whp runs with them. See TimG. The main concern is the placement of the wastegate. Which running off the number 1 runner has clearly gone farther than the op's goals. . . So, other than blowing lots of money on an IDEAL system, what does the OP need to see his goal? Comes down to turbo choice and enough wastegate spring. At the end of the day, most of the gases really are going through the turbine, not the wastegate, on a properly balanced setup. So the pile of gases traveling a whole 1 inch up the number 1 runner to the gate won't amount to a whole lot anyway.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

efficiency goes a long way, True he might not LOSE much by using it, but what would he GAIN over it by using something better?

 

[rstchris]

To answer as many questions as I can, that 6bolt IM is mached and mated to a 6bolt head. I am running 25 psi on my current 16g and I want a little more but don't want to sacrifice my idle quality. From the look of my setup it seems the most restrictive parts (bolt-ons not internals) are the turbo and 2.5" crush bent DP and trust catlessback. I know how much power can be/has been made on the 16g but at 25 psi on the TN 50trim my car should make more power. Lag don't bother me as much as a slow feeling car. Have any of you personally ran the turbo I speak of?

 

[clockworktoy]

To answer as many questions as I can, that 6bolt IM is mached and mated to a 6bolt head. I am running 25 psi on my current 16g and I want a little more but don't want to sacrifice my idle quality. From the look of my setup it seems the most restrictive parts (bolt-ons not internals) are the turbo and 2.5" crush bent DP and trust catlessback. I know how much power can be/has been made on the 16g but at 25 psi on the TN 50trim my car should make more power. Lag don't bother me as much as a slow feeling car. Have any of you personally ran the turbo I speak of?

There lies the problem, we aren't exactly sure what turbo your speaking off (unless you already confirmed it in fact is a 50trim). And your stock cams are also going to restrict your big power goal, there are plenty of cams out there that won't kill your idle and will allow your motor to breath better than the stock ones.

 

[rstchris]

I am not looking for cams or a really cool Flux capicitor, What I am asking is: have any of you used the Turbonetics 50 trim and if so can you offer feedback? Can we try to stay on topic?

 

[dsm-onster]

We all keep going in circles with you because we can't tell you what that turbo will do without the measurements/specs. Supposing it's a 50-trim. . . Yes it will provide more power at the same boost, IF it a t31 50-trim with a bep housing or a t3 .63 a/r housing. It could have a .48 a/r turbine housing. Or it could have a t3 stage2 wheel. PTE and I think T-netics does the 'stage 2' wheel or 'stage 3' (t31) with the 50-trim compressor. A t3 stage 5 (t350 wheel) with a t3 housing (since it comes with a t3 manifold) would be a lag monster with no benefit for the lag. But they're out there with the 50-trim compressor.

I had a turbo exactly like a t31 50-trim, but with little bigger compressor (doesn't affect flow per psi or spool much at all), and I saw more power per psi than my td05h 7cm^2 18g (like your 16g in the flow per psi department).

So which 50-trim? Is it a 50trim? It could have the right turbine to outflow the 16g, but have the 54-trim or 57-trim compressor which is not really an upgrade to your compressor. and both like to surge (damage themselves because the motor doesn't flow enough). 46-trim 50-trim 54-trim 57-trim 60-trim all look similar. T-netics makes them all. They can all be had with a t3 turbine wheel making them t3/t4 turbos. . . If you're not sure it's a 50-trim, why ask what a 50-trim does? It may not do what we say it will do, because it may not be what you say it is. As I said, some t3/t4 turbos are a downgrade to your 16g. Others flow about the same with more lag. And others flow better with slightly more lag. While even others, flow enough for 200whp more than your 16g, with lots'o'lag.

Drivability and idle did not suffer after my fp2 cam swap. It made the motor pull harder up top, like a bigger laggy turbo makes it pull harder up top. The end result is the same: more flow at the same psi with a later powerband. . . The good thing about cams is that they don't break as much as turbonetics turbos. Nor are they as complicated as a flux capacitor And the 16g is very reliable. You have plenty of room left in it for a cam upgrade. . . Whatever you want to do. Just trying to convey the understanding that either a larger turbo or a better pair of cams will do about the same thing for you now. The factory 4g63 cams are VERY restrictive, much moreso than most other 4cylinder platforms.

 

[rstchris]

The turbo is a CBB with a to4b compressor and .57 ar turbine housing. Just thought i would mention that I am getting cams instead, jerks!

 

[gstryyder]

cams instead... good idea!! what cams? pls not some cheap ass crapcams...... jk.. but seriously which ones you going with? if ya pick up some kelford 264/270's and later on down the road you decide you dont like em... i would pick em up off ya when it comes around to it. =D

 

[dsm-onster]

The turbo is a CBB with a to4b compressor and .57 ar turbine housing. Just thought i would mention that I am getting cams instead, jerks!

You mean DBB not CBB right?

There is no t3 .57 a/r turbine housing; there is a t4 .58 a/r housing; but then you don't have a t3/t4. The t04b compressor cover comes with 5+ different compressors ranging from 38lb/min to 65lb/min. That's 350whp to as much as 700whp. As well, because the t045e cover is bigger you may find a 50-trim which usually comes in an e-cover in a b-cover. There's atleast 6 different to4e wheels ranging from 37lb/min to 52lb/min. . .

There IS a 57-trim compressor wheel, which commonly comes in a t04e cover. . .Can't you just get compressor wheel measurements and turbine wheel measurements? And about the housing, which turbine housing is it really? We'll have to see pics I guess, since there's no .57 a/r housing. The A/R number is stamped on the inside of the inlet at the mouth.

. . .BTW, I hope you're joking with the "jerks! " bit. It's not like anyone is wrong with what they said. I've run 16Gs, cam upgrades, and t3/t4s (t-netic t3/t4 at that). Others helping you here have been around these platforms for a long time. We're all trying to help you and no one has steered you wrong so far. . . So lets get the real numbers on the turbo you want, or no one can help.

 

[rstchris]

I do CBB not DBB and according to TN they do have a 57ar turbine. I decided from the compressor map that saw for that turbo it will put me close to the surge erea cause i'm not moving enough air for the 25psi i'm running. I can't get a smokin deal on a turbo that would better fit my needs/wants so cams it is.

 

[donniekak]

What we are all trying to say is that there could be any number of different compressors, and turbines in that turbo. The numbers and letters on the housings just label the housing. The wheels inside the housings are what make the turbo a 50-trim, 60-1, 57trim etc. Unless you take the covers off and measure the compressor, and turbine, you cannot know what turbo it is.

 

[dsm-onster]

I do CBB not DBB and according to TN they do have a 57ar turbine. I decided from the compressor map that saw for that turbo it will put me close to the surge erea cause i'm not moving enough air for the 25psi i'm running. I can't get a smokin deal on a turbo that would better fit my needs/wants so cams it is.

What compressor map did you see? It would have the compressor wheel name on it. I'm still interested in what the hell turbo this is. Tnetics doesn NOT have a .57 a/r turbine housing. . .

Regardless good choice on upgrading cams instead. You WILL be happy. Look at fp2 or fp2X cams or kelford 272s. They work very, very well. Another option is regrinding your camshafts. Delta cams has an hks 272 regrind for $90 a stick. They are reputable and the hks 272 grind is proven to make some serious power.

 

[JusMX141]

What compressor map did you see?

Must've been this one:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Bottom line: You cannot read a compressor map for a turbo with an unidentified compressor wheel.

 

[dsm-onster]

Trying to be nicer saying the same thing

 

[turboglenn]

Jus ... You just gave me the firs good laugh i've had all day.. Thanks buddy!!!!!!

 

[rstchris]

Yeah, that's real funny. I'm done with this thread. I have not even given you guys specs on wheels cause it doesent matter anyway. ALL I will get is a negative response, but it's nice to know that if I want an opinion on subject #1 I can get lot's of non-related topic responses and immature replies. Thanks guys, it's been fun.