[RESOLVED] Car will not start, HELP

[DSMking90]

I just got my car running about 1 week ago. Now it wont stay on. Its been doing this since the next morning it got here. I checked all the possibilities and they all seem to be fine since it actually will try to start but immediately turns off. My spark plug order was wrong I think, so i stole my friends 2g pattern and it actually tried to turn on more often. I did got a check engine light and checked on my DSMlink and its a camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction error. So if anyone has any ideas please help

 

[ba109296]

If your getting the cam sensor code then something is wrong with that circuit or the cam sensor.

What year cam sensor is it? If its a 1g then pull it off the head, turn the car keys to ON and flip the sensor end around a few times. If you dont get the injectors clicking and the spark plugs firing then you have a bad cas.

 

[infinite_kaos]

Also, if its a 1g, check for broken wires in the cas harness. After time those wired get brittle and moving them around can break them. Happened with my cas and my injector wires.

 

[DSMking90]

yes i just got in from checking for spark. No spark to 2 wires(the 2 on the eft) I have my friends car to pull parts from, so i pulled his Coil pack and tried it on mine and it didn't do anything; still no spark was thinking it is the power transistor but i don't really know. If you guys think it could be the transistor or something else just let me know. any help is appreciated.

Its a 95 TSi BTW and I have a stock 95 cam sensor but its never been plugged in, since the day i first bought it. I have the DSMlink option clicked to invert cas which was like that since i also bought it. So power transistor is what im thinking, but we'll see.

 

[Carmenpzito]

did you double check your plugs? i thought a bad CAS would cause no spark for all cylinders rather than just two

 

[infinite_kaos]

I'm pretty sure your cam angle sensor needs to be plugged in. If you have a 95 and its a stock sensor, its located under the intake cam gear.

I don't believe inverting the cas with link will affect it any, but not having it plugged in will not allow the car to start. The ecu needs both the cam and crank sensor to work in conjunction for ignition.

Plug it in, see what happens.

 

[DSMking90]

I will take a look at all this but the CEL im getting is Camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction. i thought it was on the top left of the valve cover, and thats what is not plugged in. I havent looked to much on the intake cam gear, but will take a closer look.

Also can someone give me the proper wire setup I should use. I took my friends, but i'd still like to have it to be sure. I've seen like 3 different patterns also, so thats why I don't really know which is correct.

 

[infinite_kaos]

95-96 talons and eclipses didn't have cam sensors on the trans side of the intake cam, it was on the cam gear side.

97-99 eclipses and talons had the cam sensor on the trnas side of the intake cam, but its not adjustable like the ones you would find on a 6 bolt/ 1st gen.

Unless the previous owner installed a 1g cam sensor, if that's the case then you may have to change the inversion on dsmlink to see if that starts it.

How bout some pics of what you have.

 

[DSMking90]

These are the pics and as you can see there is nothing connected.

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[infinite_kaos]

Ok so that's a cam angle sensor from a 97-99, is there even a connector for it. There should be a connector coming out from behind the engine by the intake cam gear, this is the location of the cam gear for 95-96 you really can't see it by looking at the cam gear because its behind it, it also has a trigger plate which passes over the sensor to let the sesnor know the position of the cam.

If your wiring harness is stock from your year there should be a connector by the cakm gear, it could be a different head from another year. And the previous owner left the cam sensor in place so he wouldn't have to cap it off. Hopefully he was smart enough to install the correct cam sensor by the cam shaft.

I hope I'm making sens to you, if not let me know, and ill try to answer with a little more detail.

 

[splatter96]

i have a similar if not the same problem with a no start with my 96 eclipse 420a motor. its been sitting for a while it started before i tore the engine apart but it had start problems here and there. i had an oil leak oil tends to get on the wires which can mess em up i guess you in a similar situation. trace your cam sensor wiring or do what ima do and get a new harness from the junk yard. tracing wires are annoying. dats your best option i know a good cheap junk yard if you want to try dat option.

 

[DSMking90]

Okay, well I don't know if there is or isn't a connector for that sensor. I will check and see if I can't find one. The only connector thats not plugged in that I can see is the one for the AC since I removed it. Now, If its never been plugged in then why would it be acting up now? But like I said I will check and see if i can't find another connector on the wiring harness. And as for the oil leaking all over and messing the wires up, that could be very possible since I had a very bad leak. I will check these things and post back up. Gimme some more info on that Junkyard also splatter96 if you don't mind. And thanks a lot guys/gals.

 

[infinite_kaos]

The connector for the cam sensor is connected to the same bundle as the conector for the a/c, almost looks like the same plug.

I'm not sure why it would run then not run, that's beyond me, but you do need to have one of then connected (cas I mean)

 

[DSMking90]

Okay now I feel as if though im at step 1. I don't know why it ran one night and now won't run. I really don't know what to try and replace. I'm going to check to make sure my connectors are all plugged, and really need to find out why I'm not getting spark. But, ill post back about the connectors and all that stuff tomorrow, and will hopefully have some help this saturday to see if I can't figure it out.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Okay, well I don't know if there is or isn't a connector for that sensor. I will check and see if I can't find one. The only connector thats not plugged in that I can see is the one for the AC since I removed it. Now, If its never been plugged in then why would it be acting up now? But like I said I will check and see if i can't find another connector on the wiring harness. And as for the oil leaking all over and messing the wires up, that could be very possible since I had a very bad leak. I will check these things and post back up. Gimme some more info on that Junkyard also splatter96 if you don't mind. And thanks a lot guys/gals.

So you say your using DSM Link? I dont recall reading ANYTHING that says you can use Bad Sensors on DSM Link. So maybe you should test the sensor and see if its good. If the sensor is bad... I dont think you can run DSM Link to ignore it.


DSM Gurus let us know

 

[infinite_kaos]

The fact that the cas is not plugged in is more then enough reason as to why you're not getting spark.

How do we know its a bad sensor if its not plugged in, never has been plugged in. Whatever the case is, when you find out which sensor you have and if its plugged in or not will help us better trouble shoot your problem.

 

[DSMking90]

Yes I am running DSMlink and it just has an option for invert cas that was already clicked so i left it that way. Also if it is a bad sensor could it be like half f'd up to where it would just spark 2 and thats all? either way im going to check all this out.

 

[splatter96]

dude me and you are going thru the same issue my car started one day then it didnt no spark then diagnosed and it says no cam or crank signal to pcm. i went thru it b4 and replaced the harness car started right up. my dumb ass finally fixed the oil leak new oil pump.. if you want heres my cell number 7578124480 im going to the junk yard on saturday they have plenty of eclipses. maybe we both can get a discount for buying 2. they asking 75 bills for the whole engine harness. maybe since we getting 2 he might knock it to 65 or something. my plan is to replace my harness get a new cam sensor plug and crank sensor plug to cover the whole problem i work at chrysler dealership so i dont mind hooking you up wit a good deal. got to get da eclipse riding ya dig.

damn didnt realize you live in fairfax doubt you come to news for a harness and sensors. when my car starts i will let you know what to get from the junk yard ### it sounds like we in the same boat.

 

[DSMking90]

HAHA yea man foreal, been down for soooo long and i just miss it. but this saturday i work all day which sucks. But yea dude, if your goin anyother time just PM me so I can set my stuff aside to make a trip over there and hopefully get a good deal.

 

[DSMking90]

Well i'm gonna have to wait until next friday to do anymore tests. All left is bad ecu or cas which hopefully its a cas. I think my ecu is good.

 

[rush2252]

WOW theres alot of bad Newbish info in this thread... Okay if the car has been converted to a 6bolt or 1g CAS then NO the factory CAM sensor isnt used. Its bypassed as the CAS has both the CAM and TDC sensor built in.

Here is a summary description of how it works read up

"The Crank Angle Sensor and the Top Dead Center Sensor are located on the right side of the cylinder head. These sensors are incorporated into one unit, being a disc and a pick-up unit. The disc is affixed to a shaft that is coupled to the camshaft and the light-transmitting unit is mounted stationary to the units housing.

Crank Angle And #1 TDC Sensor


The disc contains 4 large slits around its circumference to indicate the crankshaft angle. An additional light-transmission slit located inward from the edge is used to indicate number one cylinder's top dead center position. The pick-up unit assembly uses two luminous diodes and two photo diodes, in order to detect the two different slits. There is a very slight clearance between the luminous diodes and the photo diodes, and the disc rotates within this space.

As the shaft rotates the slits at the discs edge pass between the light and the optical reading part of the unit. The light emitted from the luminous diodes pass through the slits to the photo sensing diodes. When the photo diodes receive the light, they become conductive and generate a signal, which is sent to the Control Unit.

The Control Unit is able to detect number one cylinder TDC by the signal generated through the single inner slit on the disc. The sequence of the fuel injector firing is based on this signal.
The slits at the outer circumference of the disc represent the exhaust stroke and serve to detect the position of the crankshaft (and, therefore, the piston) relative to top dead center.
Based on these signals, the Control Unit is able to determine the fuel injection pulse width, ignition timing, and also the intake air flow rate for each revolution of the engine."


alldata.com

-Kolby

and NO to my knowledge DSMlink cant allow for bad sensors to be ignored. At least not the CAS

 

[GS ice T]

Rush has very useful information. No need to flame on someone trying to help that isn't giving misinformation. Despite I already know the basics of how the CAS works, details are more than welcome regardless where it came from. I recently picked up on this 1g CAS working as a cam angle and crank sensor info as I need to know how to hook it up for my motor swap. One of the first things I learned though was that if you dont want the car to start but turn over for something like a compression test, you can disconnect the CAS.

To me, it seems like the OP is a little misinformed about his own car. I think he has a 97-99 head with CAS thats unplugged AND the original 95 CAS that is/was plugged up. Don't hold me to it though.

 

[snowborder714]

DSMking, you really need to look over your car and figure out what you have under the hood. You need to figure out what sensors are in your car so we know exactly what we're working with.

Based off the info I have read and pictures I've seen, the Invert CAS checkbox should be checked since you have a non-95/96 CAS. BUT, you may have one, so please look.

If you wouldn't mind, just go take a bunch of pictures of your engine bay and post them up. This way we can try to guess what you have and help you verify.

And if you have any recent logs of the car, post them up so I can verify your settings are all correct. It could be as simple as you having aftermarket injectors and not having DSMlink set for those because you disconnected your battery and reset the DSMlink settings back to the base ones.

 

[rush2252]

Okay, well I don't know if there is or isn't a connector for that sensor. I will check and see if I can't find one. The only connector thats not plugged in that I can see is the one for the AC since I removed it. Now, If its never been plugged in then why would it be acting up now? But like I said I will check and see if i can't find another connector on the wiring harness. And as for the oil leaking all over and messing the wires up, that could be very possible since I had a very bad leak. I will check these things and post back up. Gimme some more info on that Junkyard also splatter96 if you don't mind. And thanks a lot guys/gals.

I just reread this portion. The A/C plug is triangular it can be interchanged with the coil plug. If you removed the a/c and swapped coils make sure that part is correct. This still doesnt explain the CAM sensor CEL on link though. Im just trying to keep you from having multiple problems. Any chance the no start happened after you removed the A/C?

More info and more pics like Brian said would be really great. Its kinda hard to grasp what is going on. Im assuming the previous owner swapped a 2gb head on and left the CAS bolted on. He then most likely put the 2ga cams or cam gears with the backing plate for the original 95 into the car and retained the CAM sensor. If this is the case there should be two connectors on the back driver rear of the upper timing cover. One of the connectors is for the CAM sensor.


Hope this clears some stuff up Ive attached a picture for all you visual people

-Kolby

 

[DSMking90]

It was after the AC removal. But It drove home fine and next morning messed up on me. As for that sensor i think its just there as a plug. I saw another one by the camgear, and it was loose and had a little crack. I will take pics tomorrow and see get your guys input. Thanks for all the help, I'm just a newb with the mechanic part and need to get my car running.