ECMlink [RESOLVED] 1995 Eagle Talon TSi doesn't build boost

[Justin DuBois]

Glad you were able to get a log - all the things Steve pointed out are the things we have been pointing out for a while. You need a working coolant temp sensor.

 

[Brian O Conner]

Glad you were able to get a log - all the things Steve pointed out are the things we have been pointing out for a while. You need a working coolant temp sensor.

I did fix those I uploaded the wrong file plus in the video those were fixed in the video anyways here is the correct file.

Try this one guys

Part of this data capture is idle the other part is me at wide open throttle. it revs up to 2000 rpm and stays there with a 10.1 fuel air ratio. I adjusted the global dead time to 180 and the global injector size to the rc 550cc injectors.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Thank you for the latest logs. Now I can see where you need to complete your setup.
If you have a MAF connected - it isn't working.
If you are trying to run Speed Density mode - you need additional sensors.

I'm going go screen by screen on the ECU config. You need to address anything I've marked.

Starting here - To avoid confusion - disable the launch rev limit by setting the speed to disable it to 0mph

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MAF Comp - Zero all this out - including "Global Scalar" - set to 0
For Base MAF type - set this to Speed Density if you have an IAT, MAP and Wideband sensors.

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Turn off idle air clamp

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Remind me - what Cam Position Sensor are you using? If it is not located under the cam gear - you should turn this on.

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Your ECU has recorded errors - Clear these by using "Clear All" button - then “Update All”.

Your logs are showing no airflow and you have the ECU configured for MAF, but if you don't have a MAF connected or you don't have Speed Density mode enabled you will get this error.

The Injector circuit malfunction is a concern. Check your injector wiring - also check the injector resistor pack.

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The sensor input tab needs all of these things addressed - Configure the input for where you wired in the IAT and MAP sensors.

Wideband (WB) should be set to "Rear 02"
Manifold pressure (MAP) is usually set to "MDP"
Intake temp is where most people wire in a GM IAT sensor

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[Brian O Conner]

Good stuff guys honestly, As for the MAF sensor it is connected but that doesnt mean bad connection or bad MAF could still be at play here. As for speed density goes you said i need Certain sensors? Are these stock sensors that are already on the car? Just making sure guys like I said its definitely more complex than I thought and jumping into a car with a lot of problems makes it way worse. Couple of questions. Like I said I am a 420a guy and we dont cross platform car sensors other than MAP block off protector blocks we dont use other sensors to my knowledge. So definitely new to this but how do we know if it has a gm MAF or a non 95 to 99 dsm cam sensor? Also the motor is a 1g 4g63t.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Good stuff guys honestly, As for the MAF sensor it is connected but that doesnt mean bad connection or bad MAF could still be at play here. As for speed density goes you said i need Certain sensors? Are these stock sensors that are already on the car? Just making sure guys like I said its definitely more complex than I thought and jumping into a car with a lot of problems makes it way worse. Couple of questions. Like I said I am a 420a guy and we dont cross platform car sensors other than MAP block off protector blocks we dont use other sensors to my knowledge. So definitely new to this but how do we know if it has a gm MAF or a non 95 to 99 dsm cam sensor? Also the motor is a 1g 4g63t.

I looked at the pictures from the beginning of the thread. You are using a 1G CAS - so enable the "Non-95/96" sensor checkbox.

In order to run speed density, you need to add after market sensors:

GM-IAT - usually mounted in a custom throttle body elbo right before the TB and wired into the MAF harness - replacing the factory IT signal.

3-5 bar MAP sensor - Usually mounted on the intake manifold, or connected to a hose from the intake manifold, and wired into the MDP wiring harness, replacing the factory MDP signal.

Wideband o2 - Usually mounted in a custom down pipe after the front 02, before the catalytic converter and wired into the ECU replacing the rear o2 input.

Front 02 is untouched, and runs a factory narrow band o2 sensor for idle fuel trims.

I don't see a MAF in any of the pictures or video you provided - Take a picture of what you have connected before the turbo intake and we can identify it.

 

[Brian O Conner]

I looked at the pictures from the beginning of the thread. You are using a 1G CAS - so enable the "Non-95/96" sensor checkbox.

In order to run speed density, you need to add after market sensors:

GM-IAT - usually mounted in a custom throttle body elbo right before the TB and wired into the MAF harness - replacing the factory IT signal.

3-5 bar MAP sensor - Usually mounted on the intake manifold, or connected to a hose from the intake manifold, and wired into the MDP wiring harness, replacing the factory MDP signal.

Wideband o2 - Usually mounted in a custom down pipe after the front 02, before the catalytic converter and wired into the ECU replacing the rear o2 input.

Front 02 is untouched, and runs a factory narrow band o2 sensor for idle fuel trims.

I don't see a MAF in any of the pictures or video you provided - Take a picture of what you have connected before the turbo intake and we can identify it.

Will do brother! This is by far the most helpful post on this thread.

 

[Brian O Conner]

I looked at the pictures from the beginning of the thread. You are using a 1G CAS - so enable the "Non-95/96" sensor checkbox.

In order to run speed density, you need to add after market sensors:

GM-IAT - usually mounted in a custom throttle body elbo right before the TB and wired into the MAF harness - replacing the factory IT signal.

3-5 bar MAP sensor - Usually mounted on the intake manifold, or connected to a hose from the intake manifold, and wired into the MDP wiring harness, replacing the factory MDP signal.

Wideband o2 - Usually mounted in a custom down pipe after the front 02, before the catalytic converter and wired into the ECU replacing the rear o2 input.

Front 02 is untouched, and runs a factory narrow band o2 sensor for idle fuel trims.

I don't see a MAF in any of the pictures or video you provided - Take a picture of what you have connected before the turbo intake and we can identify it.

Justin when you know your stuff you know your stuff.

So I uploaded all tune settings to car and I did some things I know from dealing with my 420a and yes it translated very well. The car ran exactly the same with MAF unplugged as it did plugged and after doing research before even doing this either the Hertz volts not showing a thing there's either a wiring problem or a bad MAF like you pointed out.

All I got to say is what a basket case this car was, no offense to these cars but we are literally talking about 3 major things being out. FYI cwr shot no codes on this or I would of already came to this conclusion. OBD 2 scanned this car a long time ago but anyways here is the pictures I got of the MAF.

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[steve]

So from the log either the MAF is bad, the wiring damaged, or perhaps there was a SAFC in the car in the past and the airflow wires disconnected at the ECU.

We've answered why the engine was breaking up at 4500 rpm and as suspected it was DSMLink's launch limiter.

I didn't see that the fuel pressure had been fixed or that the BOV had been recirculated or that the plug wires have been correctly routed.

From the pictures at the beginning of this thread it looks like the MDP sensor is flopping around in from of the CAS and disconnected from the loose vacuum line sitting by the PCV. I don't see any signs of a IAT or MAP so discussions of SD seem premature.

The additional coolant based fuel adjustment seems questionable in the DA, the Injector fuel global seems high for RC550's and adding aprox 200 ms deadtime in the DA and an additional 180 in the deadtime global seems off to me in addition to the changes Justin pointed out.

Also no battery holdown but that's not an issue until the hood closes.

After four pages it would seem a good time to revisit what the issues are that need to be addressed.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Dead MAF, or like Steve mentioned - could be hacked wires. That looks like a 2G Maf. you need to inspect the wiring harness - start at the ECU and find the breakdown in the airflow signal. If you have another 2G MAF, it is easy to swap out and check for airflow. This will point you at either the sensor or the wires.

 

[Brian O Conner]

Update!!!

Ok fixed the MAF or VAF problem. The signal wire was literally cut and had no wire butts on them. Car runs really good and smooth. Pretty sure I am finally near the tuning stage here.

To answer some questions the battery tray is inside my house temporarily because I was changing the fuel filter and injectors and just wanted to leave it off to give me more room until I figured this out. That was back in November.

As for the MAP type sensor and the stock boost controller solenoid. I had an older post on here last year and 2 guys told me to just leave them unplugged? They were unplugged when we got the car (On a 420a car wont run without the MAP. I get it the sensor is different but bear with me guys). If I should at least hook up the MAP sensor to the intake manifold let me know and I will no offense to guys on the other post from last year but Justin and Steve are getting this car going. I did another capture data log for you guys now that the MAF is working. I let it idle then I did a 6500 wide open throttle then towards the end I held the rpm at around 4500 rpm. This log is just for the capture not the tune.

Anyways Justin you said I would have to plug the MAP back in to do speed Density? FYI I don't have a problem tuning with the MAP but is it the Clamp settings or the Open Loop?

Anyways guys thank you guys a lot car runs the best by a long shot so far.

 

[Brian O Conner]

This is the first test drive. It has a very slow throttle response and did not build up any boost. slow acceleration. Obviously this is because of the tune. Here is the live capture.

Pretty sure its running lean

 

[nice97civic]

You're going to need to install a wideband and get it logging at this point so we can see how its running compared to what's being commanded by the ecu.

Also I see WOT at 4000rpm but speed is 20mph. What on earth is going on there?

 

[Brian O Conner]

IT has a wideband on there man

 

[Justin DuBois]

Hi Brian - The WideBand data is not in the list of available data (left side) - so we can't add it to the display (on the right side)

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It is listed in the ECU inputs - but you have not defined the channel recording it:

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Set this to Rear 02

Connect with ECM Link to the ECU live, and then go to the edit menu -> Captured values (F10)
Make sure "Linear wideband" is in the captured list.

 

[Brian O Conner]

Update, So we had a hard time getting the wideband to the ECM link values. We named it air fuel ratio gauge. It is a Prostreet Wideband. It Stays at 9.0 AFR on the ECM link data stream but guage does work. I recorded the guage while doing this data capture with my buddy. We ended up getting the ignition timing to 8 degrees before TDC. Which caused the car to run a lot better than it did before. We did some hard pulls and the car will not build any boost whatsoever it gets to -2 vaccum maybe -1 vaccum. We went on a starting fluid spree looking for vaccum leaks and found nothing.

I have read over 18 posts on here since 2003 and have read numerous posts on other forums such as DSM Club Canada and DSM Talk on problems not building any boost whatsoever. I read the entire Trouble shooting section of the Hahnes manual in the turbo section. I also have talked to all my friends who have turbo cars on this issue as well. I also have watched hours of videos on tuning ECM link and boost problems. The Reason I bring this up is because I just want to show everyone here we are working tirelessly on trying to fix this cars no boost issue.

To me it runs like a good NA car. Its able to get a decent pull not like a car that runs terribly bad. Best way to describe this cars driving experience would be like an NA awd Focus from the early 2000s. This capture is also the same one in the video. I went to the linear editing on the wideband on ECM link and to ProStreets website and put in the 0 volts min and 5 volts max. Its called Air fuel ratio gauge on the data capture values but says 9.0 wants again thats why I recorded it as well. Anyways thank you guys for your support on this so far.

Hi Brian - The WideBand data is not in the list of available data (left side) - so we can't add it to the display (on the right side)

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It is listed in the ECU inputs - but you have not defined the channel recording it:

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Set this to Rear 02

Connect with ECM Link to the ECU live, and then go to the edit menu -> Captured values (F10)
Make sure "Linear wideband" is in the captured list.

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This is the video of that data capture for the Pro Street wideband

 

[nice97civic]

You only got the car up to 15mph?

 

[We're on Boost]

It Stays at 9.0 AFR on the ECM link data stream but guage does work.

The AFR logged number is stuck at 9.0 because the ecu is not getting any voltage from the wideband unit.
You can see that by turning on the "raw value" for Air/Fuel Gauge in your Displayed Values.
It will display as RawLinWB. In this last log that raw voltage is showing as 0.00 volts all the way through the log.
So something is not right either with the WB itself or with the wiring going from it to the ecu.
Also you should turn on the checkbox that says "Lock rear O2 voltage" on the ECUinputs page, since you are using that input for a non-stock purpose.

 

[Brian O Conner]

You only got the car up to 15mph?

That was just in that capture. I got it to 7000 rpm at 40 mph last week. I own a 1997 RX7 FD twin turbo 13b car builds boost in first gear and 2 Turbo semi trucks(1997 volvo WIA with a 14 Liter with a 70mm Holset single turbo and a 2022 International with a 35mm). All build boost in 1st gear plus his Eagle talon Has a fully built Megan racing exhaust(More exhaust flow better spool). Something isnt right here but we did find some odd things last couple of days. I am going to keep you guys posted. As for Justin where does that wire hook up to? If its the Ecm what pin number? I have a ECM pinout fir this car and I am experienced with pinouts. We did discover some issues with turbo will keep you guys posted.

 

[nice97civic]

externalsensorinput [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

 

[Justin DuBois]

Just throwing out the usual suspects when the spool isn't spooling... Exhaust leak between the head and the Turbine? WG open all the time? Compressor or Turbine wheel failure - loose - out of tolerance?

Regards no volts from the WB - You can use a volt meter on the wire coming from the WB controller while idling. temporarally disconnect it from the ECU input and measure. This will point the finger at WB vs ECU Wiring-ECU health.

 

[nice97civic]

That was just in that capture. I got it to 7000 rpm at 40 mph last week. I own a 1997 RX7 FD twin turbo 13b car builds boost in first gear and 2 Turbo semi trucks(1997 volvo WIA with a 14 Liter with a 70mm Holset single turbo and a 2022 International with a 35mm). All build boost in 1st gear plus his Eagle talon Has a fully built Megan racing exhaust(More exhaust flow better spool). Something isnt right here but we did find some odd things last couple of days. I am going to keep you guys posted. As for Justin where does that wire hook up to? If its the Ecm what pin number? I have a ECM pinout fir this car and I am experienced with pinouts. We did discover some issues with turbo will keep you guys posted.

Ok.

 

[Brian O Conner]

Just throwing out the usual suspects when the spool isn't spooling... Exhaust leak between the head and the Turbine? WG open all the time? Compressor or Turbine wheel failure - loose - out of tolerance?

Regards no volts from the WB - You can use a volt meter on the wire coming from the WB controller while idling. temporarally disconnect it from the ECU input and measure. This will point the finger at WB vs ECU Wiring-ECU health.

So we finally Solved the Million Dollar question as of last night we put one of the used turbos on the Car and the car built boost like it should and fast! Theres is a wasgate being closed problem. We have to fix but I can finally conclude that we got this car running really good and this thread is finally Resolved after fixing 9 major issues and several months later. What caused the car to make 0 boost? Lots of issues definitely prevented the car electronically to not run riight like the MAF,ECT and alteranator but my friend buying a china journal bearing turbo and not pre oiling was the culprit for 0 boost. I want to thank everybody throughout this multi problem car! Biggest take away is not pre oiling a turbo- Buying cheap quality turbos can cause 0 boost. I read about 25 posts from the last 25 years on here and DSM Talk and Club DSM canada and this was the first I have seen for a 0 boost scenerio. Make sure you pre oil your turbos!

 

[Brian O Conner]

Ok.

We got it to boost.