2G Remove front shock absorber -- Am I missing something?

[waltah]

95 GS-T. The procedure in the manual for taking off a front shock is jack up & remove wheel, unbolt the stabilizer link, unbolt upper end of shock, remove bolt that goes through the fork and lower arm, remove the bolt clamping the fork on the bottom end of the shock. According to the manual that's all -- you can now slide the fork off the shock and remove the whole works.

I did all that, but even with the lower arm (shaft, knuckle etc.) fully dropped I was still about 1/2" shy of being able to get the fork clear of the shock assembly. The fork is straddling the axle shaft & won't go down far enough even with the shock fully up in position. I got 'er done by prying here and hammering there but there's gotta be a better way. This is a parts car, all the bolts came out normally, and it looks like all stock parts so should be trick free.

How is this done by people who know how?

 

[TerminalTalon]

Is the upper control arm disconnected from the knuckle?

 

[waltah]

Is the upper control arm disconnected from the knuckle?

No ... the service manual didn't say to do that so I didn't. Is that where you get the extra inch?

 

[Dericsh]

Without looking at a manual, I’d have probably taken the axle nut off and separated the lower ball joint so I could move the knuckle out of the way. That way the axle won’t be holding the fork up.

 

[DuckPonds]

I just recently did this and when everything is disconnected I had a buddy step on the rotor to push it down as far as it can go and managed to squeeze the fork out from the shock. Probably not the best way to do it but we didn't have to disconnect anything else besides what you stated.

 

[Chewy4g63]

95 GS-T. The procedure in the manual for taking off a front shock is jack up & remove wheel, unbolt the stabilizer link, unbolt upper end of shock, remove bolt that goes through the fork and lower arm, remove the bolt clamping the fork on the bottom end of the shock. According to the manual that's all -- you can now slide the fork off the shock and remove the whole works.

I did all that, but even with the lower arm (shaft, knuckle etc.) fully dropped I was still about 1/2" shy of being able to get the fork clear of the shock assembly. The fork is straddling the axle shaft & won't go down far enough even with the shock fully up in position. I got 'er done by prying here and hammering there but there's gotta be a better way. This is a parts car, all the bolts came out normally, and it looks like all stock parts so should be trick free.

How is this done by people who know how?

I always personally pop the axle out of the hub (A PITA if the nut hasnt come off in a while, and take the whole front out, fork and all, and then take the fork off on the bench. But someone may have an easier way as well.

 

[motomattx]

I stand on the rotor to compress the knuckle and then pull the shock out leaving the fork behind.

 

[rabenne]

I remove the two bolts on the upper control arm that hold it to the strut tower, unbolt the stabilizer link, unbolt upper strut bolts, remove bolt that goes through the lower lateral arm. Then the whole knuckle should sag enough to feed the top of the strut assembly out without removing the fork. I have never pulled the forks to remove a strut assembly. Is there something about the OEM strut assembly that would keep this from working? I am 99% sure I did this on the last 2g parts car I had (which was on stock suspension) but my memory is busted*

 

[TerminalTalon]

100% of the cars I do with upper arms need to be free. Take the nut off and hit the top of the knuckle with a hammer to free it. Watch out for stressing the axle if you don’t at least take the nut off and make sure it is free from the hub.

 

[waltah]

Well, today I got 'er done following Jk's hint above.

The job wasn't really 'replace a shock.' My 'new' 95 GS-T (nearing 3 months here) came with adjustable coilovers which had been used to lower the car. Because I couldn't even peek under without raising it and wanting the car at the standard height because that's how the suspension is designed to work (even to the point of it rides better) I wanted to get it up where it belonged.

The rears were easy: Jack/support, remove wheel, almost free upper end of shock to allow swinging it clear of obstructions, free the lock ring on the coilover height adjustment, unbolt the lower end, and twist the lower end down by what I guessed was enough -- 1-1/2". (Must be sure to leave enough thread -- 30 mm per mfr. -- in the lower end of the shock.) I had looked at pictures in Mitsu literature and guessed that 1-1/2 would put the wheel about the right amount below the top of the fender opening; it was roughly correct. (Correct = all the various arms and axles horizontal with the car standing as normally loaded.)

Got both done in about four hours.

Two days back I tackled the front by trying to free the shock from the fork as described in the first post above. Got the bolt out but the fork was seriously jammed on the shock. Eventually I realized two things: 1. It was not necessary to separate fork/shock because I could get the upper end of the shock down far enough to twist the adjustment up by 1-1/2". And 2. the shock/fork joint and bolt were seriously buggered as evidenced by damaged threads on that bolt and the fact that it wouldn't line up well enough to go back through into the threaded part of the fork on the rear side. I put a 3/8-16 bolt and nut through, tightened it up, and said bad things. Then I did the other side without attempting to pull the fork off the shock -- that was easy.

Yesterday I pulled the parts car fork -- no real problems there. Then today back to the jury-rigged first side. After taking out my 3/8 bolt (proper is M12-1.25) and knowing that the fork was likely trashed I was able drive it down off the shock. Then by taking out the outer (ball) joint on the upper arm I got plenty of extra drop (space) and getting everything out was easy.

What a mess. First, the shocks are the wrong size for the car -- the stubs are 0.095 too large to fit the forks. However the installer hammered them in anyhow (spreading the clamp on the fork) and somehow got the bolts in. However there's no shoulder (there is one but it's much too high) and evidently he didn't get a lot of clamping force either because the shock had hammered that joint enough to drive the shock in past the area relieved for the bolt thus messing up both the bolt and the stub on the shock. These shocks have adjustable firmness and maybe they're set rock hard? Will check that shortly ...

I unscrewed the bottom of the damaged adjustable shock, was barely able to chuck it in my Harbor Freight minilathe, and an hour later had a clean surface that's a perfect fit to the parts car fork. That's how I know '0.095'.

Installation wasn't a big deal. I did discover that the upper arm bushings were clamped in the wrong position -- I think all those molded-on rubber bushings are supposed to be clamped at the normal standing position to minimize the maximum stress on the rubber. So I took off the upper arm and repositioned those bushings.

The fork bushing on the lower arm is partly torn loose -- it too may have been clamped in the wrong position. Replacing that will be the next visit to this area.

And the outer upper ball joint taper was not firmly seated in the knuckle -- the shank started turning as soon as I turned the nut.

And over on the other side there's play in the wheel bearing. I am hoping that's just torquing the axle nut. Plus I will take off the fork and shock there and fix as necessary.

Those shocks probably were not intended for this car. Additional clue: They have adjustments on the upper end for camber/castor as for a McPherson system. However with the stub cut down they seem okay.

I had been thinking it would take maybe a year to get most of this car right. Now, maybe more like two?

And I think the easiest answer to the question I started with is that if there's not enough room to get the fork off the shock is 'pop the upper ball joint out of the knuckle.'

Edit to say "Thank you" to all the posters. I learned a lot.

 

[rabenne]

Removing the upper ball joint can be a pita, and often leads to a damaged ball joint boot. The odds of damage go up when you break out a pickle fork to pop the taper joint out. If your ball joint doesn't pop out easily, just remove the two bolts that hold the upper control arm to the strut tower. Either way works fine.

Sounds like you definitely have a DSM! Reading all that feels so familiar!

 

[waltah]

... a pickle fork to pop the taper joint out.

I have seen two recent posts saying "I just got a DSM ... it's my first car ..." Accordingly this explanation of some things that may be unfamiliar to the newer DSM mechanic.

(I'm brand new to the Eclipse family but have 30 years of driveway mechanic experience on Mitsubishi cars of the 80's-90's.)

A 'pickle fork' is a pry bar with a forked end that'll fit between the ball of the joint and the top of the knuckle. Shove the other end of the bar and boink! -- the joint pops out. Professionals use this tool because it's fast and in any case the most common reason they take out a ball joint is to replace it so the downside of damage to the boot and possibly the joint itself, doesn't matter.

The other tool for the job is a sort of press. There are several designs. The one I use has a fork that goes between the ball joint and the knuckle but it has a hinge at the middle with a short arm that pushes on the end of ball joint bolt and a longer arm with a jackscrew. Clamp it in place, wire it to something in case it flies off in a direction where a half pound of fast-moving cast iron would be unwelcome, swing a wrench on the screw a few times and again, boink! This can take a few minutes to set up and do but is very unlikely to damage the part.

To see lots of pictures go over to eBay Motors and search 'ball joint separator.'

 

[waltah]

Wrap up post ... Since the above I got the standing height adjusted on both front shocks. When removing the right one (upper arm disconnected) I found that that ball joint was totally shot -- rusted and about 2-3 mm of play in all directions. (That was the play at the RF wheel that I thought was in the bearing.) I grabbed the one from the parts car but it was only 'better' -- not really okay, so ordered a new pair of upper arms/ball joints. (Suspension parts should be replaced in pairs.)

Installation was fairly straightforward. Interesting points: the Mitsubishi manual says the angle between the support bolts and the line between the inner (rubber bushing) and outer (ball joint) pivots should be 85 degrees and tells you how to set that up using a ruler. The parts package contained a note: "Avoid premature bushing wear. Do not fully tighten bushing until suspension is at riding height."

I believe these two instructions are equivalent -- both aim to roughly eliminate rotational tension in the rubber bushings when the car is at normal standing (= riding) height. Since I couldn't figure out how to adequately tighten the bushing bolts (just flanged nuts -- no lockwashers or elastic stop nuts so they must be tight) with the assembly on the car I used the manual info to set it up before installation.

Test driving it on the (rough) lawn gave an occasional 'klunk-klunk sound in the front. I had put the nuts that hold the bolts up into the chassis on 'plenty tight enough' but a torque wrench (62 lb-ft) got another revolution on one of them and the noise went away. These parts self-align as you tighten them only by distorting the rubber bushings: if there's any irregularity in the bushings or distortion of that part of the chassis that might fool you about 'tight enough.'

The car handles well and without chassis noises but I'll replace the lower suspension parts next summer as they're likely the same age as the uppers and the car may have 150k miles. ('May' because I don't think the instrument cluster goes with the chassis.)

'Resolved.' Back to things that wouldn't be of interest to the list -- I installed a new (well-used) spark plug wire cover today. And replaced the hatch struts with new, transferring the somewhat weak ones to the parts car that had completely dead struts. Fun job working under a 50# steel deadfall ... But that trunk is now usable for storage and I can get the stock spoiler off.

 

[Mech Addict]

Just a note on wiring the ball joint separator. I didn't do this the first time I used this type of tool. Lost my big toe nail in a hurry when it "popped". Could have been my nose if it went up instead of down. Always wire it up to the coil spring now, though.
Second observation; there seem so many approach to working on this 2g front end, I'll have to get a diagram and re-read this post just for kicks. The 1g is obviously much different. I just liked how everyone had their own tricks. Good stuff.

 

[Chewy4g63]

I did the work today you said. I couldnt get the shock out without pulling the upper ballt joint, sway bar, and pushing down. The oem shock and fork wont come out at the same time. On another note, coilovers install really nice with the fork still on.

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[waltah]

Just a note on wiring the ball joint separator. I didn't do this the first time I used this type of tool. Lost my big toe nail in a hurry when it "popped". Could have been my nose if it went up instead of down. Always wire it up to the coil spring now, though.

You know I've been using that tool every once in a while for 20 years, always wired it, and never had it do anything but just fall. But it's like working underneath with just a jack ... it only has to go wrong once.

This forum is invaluable for tricks and previous experience with a weird problem.