Rear Wheel Drive [Merged 9-7]

[na90dsm]

how did the square shaft work out, i need ustom safts for my jeep. im planning on chevy blazer rears and a different transfer case.



my motor is done finally has some nice mods

amc 360 from a 71 amc amx
edelbrock intake manifold
600cfm 4 barrel edelbrock carb electric choke
hedman fenderwell headers
dual dynamax 2 1/2 inch mufflers
snorkel kit (homemade)
accel coil
accelplug wires

now i need some more lift, i only have 6 inches i it now and i think im gonna go up another 6or so and ad 5:13 ratio riung and pinion soon. needs bigger tires and lower gears. mud around hear swallows tractor tires

 

[Rotozuk]

The square drive shafts are fine for rock craling, but I would not use them for anything else. Mine is only good for about 30 mph. In mud you will need to spin the tires a lot faster then that to clear the lugs. The vibration would kill you.

Sounds like an interesting project.

-Wayne

 

[ProjectDSM]

It was a few weeks ago when I was reading some info on engine swaps for Jeeps and I thought of this very same thing. A 4g63 into a Jeep, Kind of a crazy idea for something as heavy as a jeep as the 4's aren't too "torquey" to begin with. But a Samurai, freakin brilliant, perfect size and weight for a 4g63. That’s one thing most don't realize when rock crawling or just plain ole 4 wheeling is the weight issue. Weight is just as important as it is in drag racing. With the little body of the Samurai you've pretty much eliminated all unwanted weight. That little 2.0L is like a dime on that chassis. And the gearing pulls out all the torque you could ever need. My .02 cents - Maybe swap that turbo for a supercharger of some sort for even more low-end "instant" torque. Or look into the DSM Link II. From what I've read there’s a feature that will spool and keep the turbo spooled at idle for AWD launches. AWD Launch you say!!! I foresee you doing an AWD launch over some rocks and into some trees, making your wipers turn on, leaping through the air like a real Samurai. Can you imagine the confused looks when your blowing off a turbo with a laptop mounted on the dash while your inching over a boulder that has your axles looking like a see saw and your about to roll over on your ass. Sorry, 4x4 thing, I got carried away. Anyhow from what it looks like you don't need any other power from your 4g63 crawler. I love the build, happy crawling Wayne.

My Jeep:
86 CJ-7 hardtop with a 87-95 wrangler tub and interior
33s with a modest 4" lift
fuel injected inline 6 4.0L swap
ARB or Detroit lockers coming soon!!!
Will post pics later on ProjectDSM.com

 

[Rotozuk]

Actually, I'm gathering parts right now. Time to start squeezing out some more power. Just seems to be falling a bit on its face. Guess I am finally getting used to it, and just expect more. Couldn't have anything to do with the stock air cleaner box and old plugged up filter.. Nah!

I might start popping up asking stupid newbie questions about tuning. The goal will be t add power without taking ANY away from the lower RPMs. I need a rock solid idle and fair low end power. As it is, when my power steering pump hit bypass, and the engine is at idle, it just about stalls. But if I bump it up about 100 rpm, then all is good.

-Wayne

 

[ProjectDSM]

More power! Spoken like a true DSMer...

 

[na90dsm]

id put a stroker kit in it, they have mass low end tourque if built correctly. mostly with the turbo motors youll have a higher rpm range where the power kicks in. with the stroker you dont have to have it that high in the rpm to make desent power. maybe a few head tricks and you should be ok. i dont see you having to run much more than a 16g.


i was thinking about a 4g63t in my cj-7 and it would work, but would have to be heavily modded. it would have to make about 400hp to move it good. the pnly thing is the trans and t-case hookup. would be a big problem.



im wirking on my rear driveshaft now. i found out that i need ladder bars and a higher angle driveshaft. i have a front driveshaft with a double cardon joint on it im gonna make into my rear shaft. im gonna get the double cardon joint cut off it and then welded into place on the rear. itll be about 1 inch longer when finished and should hold the angle outta the t-case better. i can set the pinion angle with degree wedges and it should work out perfect.


if only the stock cj driveshafts werent toothpicks id be ok. maybe ill make one bigger.



rotozuk i have a head if you ever wanna build one up. its a 6-bolt 4g63 head with 1g tsi cams in it. looks clean to me. let me know if you may need it.

 

[Rotozuk]

Originally posted by na90dsm
id put a stroker kit in it, they have mass low end tourque if built correctly.

i was thinking about a 4g63t in my cj-7 and it would work

im wirking on my rear driveshaft now. i found out that i need ladder bars and a higher angle driveshaft. i have a front driveshaft with a double cardon joint on it im gonna make into my rear shaft. im gonna get the double cardon joint cut off it and then welded into place on the rear. itll be about 1 inch longer when finished and should hold the angle outta the t-case better. i can set the pinion angle with degree wedges and it should work out perfect.

rotozuk i have a head if you ever wanna build one up. its a 6-bolt 4g63 head with 1g tsi cams in it. looks clean to me. let me know if you may need it.

Nope, don't think I'll mess with the 2.4 stuff. I like my 2.0 just fine. I really like a short stroke motor.

I don't think the 4G63 would be a good swap into a Jeep. Jeeps are too hard to get the weight out of them. The little low compression 2.0 turbo just is not up to the task of moving 2 tons of weight from a dead stop. You would have some silly gearing to make it work. I'd stay with the more tried and true V6 & V8 swaps into a Jeep or land Cruiser. It is not uncommon for those vehicles to weigh in well over 6,000 pounds. It can be done, but it would be best if it was a minimal weight project.

I do not doubt the need for a ladder bar. (One should do the trick) I run one myself. But look out for the wedges to set your axle angle. Make sure they are made of steel!! The aluminum ones will crush and cause more trouble. Eventually, the best method is to cut off the old spring pads, and weld on some new ones at the correct angle. But if you are only a degree or two out, use the shims.

Thanks for the offer of the head, but I think the shipping would kill me. Hopefully mine will hold together.

Good luck with the project!

-Wayne

 

[na90dsm]

yea i actually think im gonna go spring over with my jeep. 5.5 inches of almost free lift is up my alley. the wedges were gonna help on the angle but i looked at my spring perches and there all messed up, old really.


i could get the 4g63t to work in the jeep and it would move the thing pretty good. tlaking about silly gearing the military 2 1/2 ton axles and the rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles have either a 6:12 or a 6:72 gear ration. thats low ass gears. i think a 3 cylinder could move a 18 wheeler with those gears. well maybe not but that would be a sight to see



i have shipped a cylinder head to cali before and the shipping was only like $55 or so. im not looking for a lot for the head i just want it outta my garage. kinda becoming a eye sore. let me know

 

[Rotozuk]

Originally posted by na90dsm
yea i actually think im gonna go spring over with my jeep. 5.5 inches of almost free lift is up my alley. the wedges were gonna help on the angle but i looked at my spring perches and there all messed up, old really.

i could get the 4g63t to work in the jeep and it would move the thing pretty good. tlaking about silly gearing the military 2 1/2 ton axles and the rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles have either a 6:12 or a 6:72 gear ration. thats low ass gears. i think a 3 cylinder could move a 18 wheeler with those gears. well maybe not but that would be a sight to see

i have shipped a cylinder head to cali before and the shipping was only like $55 or so. im not looking for a lot for the head i just want it outta my garage. kinda becoming a eye sore. let me know

You will find that the "free" lift is not free. You will really want to run a ladder bar with a spring over. SPOA Jeeps without ladder bars like to rip the yokes off the pinions. Depending on how you do the spring over on the Jeep, it can cost very little, or cost a lot. Either way, I highly recommend it if you want better articutlation. but if you are already a top heavy Jeep, you might want to look into other options. A spring over will also make you more tippy. mine has pretty much always been a spring over.

The 4G63 in my Samurai is a little wimpy when starting from a dead stop, and I weigh maybe as much as 3500 lbs. A jeep will weigh at least another 1000 lbs. It just takes some good low end torque to get the tires to start rolling. My 37s are a bit less then 100 lbs each. Now once it gets rolling, sure, the 4G63 could move just about anything. Hell, a hampster wheel with the right gearing could move a tank, but it would not be ideal would it?

The Rockwell gearing is nice, but the Mog is even better at around 7:1, and far better ground clearance. But then again a Mog weighs in at about 500-600 lbs an axle, and the Rockwell weighs... I have no idea. I rather have Mogs! (My buddy is building up a mog with LS1 combo right now.) Sweet!

I'll pass on the head, but thanks! My engine is actually a 7 bolt 1G (1993).

-Wayne

 

[na90dsm]

yea i plan on getting new u bolt and all for the setup. i need new spring perches, a drop pitman arm, ladder bars (which im gonna build myself), longer brake lines, im gonna drop the shock mounts down on the bottom of the frame instead of the top, and im gonna get a rear driveshaft made. also im just gonna drop the t-case down a bit to help out angles and such.

i wish we could go wheeling man. jersey to cali is a wee bit of a trip. we got some pretty good stuff out here and im sure you have a lot more than we do.


maybe if i get into the top truck challenge ill come visit.

 

[gimmie11s]

wayne-

i am working on a rwd 4g63 conversion of my own but i have one question. What OTHER alternatives are there to the water pipe deal? that pipe sprawling all the way accross the engine is not my cup of tea. you said you had another idea for it? care to expound?

thanks-

dom

 

[J92EGSX]

just to let you guys know, they came out with a 4g63t in a 1991 CJ (wrangler) In japan, it was a production car.

 

[GRNDSM]

One alternative to the rear water pipe is to tap it in the front of the head. There is a freeze plug which can be popped out and then you can weld-in any type of fitting you wish. I believe that Eric P. did this on a couple of his RWD conversions.

Personally, I am not sold on an idea that this would provide enough cooling in the head. Because there will not be coolant flowing across the head/engine. Is anyone running this type of water pipe on the street?

Leon
RR

 

[Rotozuk]

Actually I plan to make these mods and a few others to really reduce the under hood clutter.

The hard line out of the water pump runs right along the side of the engine. I plan to pit it up right behind the alternator. this will get rid of one of those long lines to the rear of the engine.

I also plan to flip the turbo so that the cold side is facing the front of the engine. This will really help reduce some of the tangle of large tubes. A lof of the tubes you see in my install are the turbo lines. I almost did this in the initial install, but decided I really did not want to mess with the water and oil delivery lines at the time. Just wanted to keep it simple.

Anyone have some info on the 4G63 Jeep? this is the first I have heard of it.

-Wayne

 

[Catbox_95]

All right, as the title says, my new endeavor is to convert my fwd TSi to rwd. And I don't mean awd, nor do I mean awd with the front drive shafts removed. I'm talking about turning the engine length-ways like it should be, tranny, driveshaft to the rear, differential and suspension.

Don't flame me, save it. I know it can be done. Anything can. I don't care if there's a kit, I'm good at fabrication. And I know it HAS been done.

My question is (for those of you who have creative minds and aren't haters), what tranny is/should be used, and what rear end? I was toying around with the possibility of a 280ZX rear end I have access to. Anyway, let the discussions begin!

 

[Blackreign]

Sounds likea lot of work.

The 280zx rear end is one of the best Nissan rear ends and has nice beefy half shafts. It is a popular upgrade for 240Z's and 300zx's.

 

[Catbox_95]

Yes, thanks for bringing that up - it will be a lot of work, and that's ok. I am seriously considering making that 280ZX rear end work.

What about that Buschur Racing DSM that has a 4G63 and is RWD (running 7's, no less)... Anyone know about that?

 

[pianoman]

Its a full tube frame car, with a powerglide 2speed auto tranny. There are a good number of threads on what rwd trannys will bolt up to our block.

 

[trbotaln]

I think that you might be able to bolt on a starion tranny but I am not completely sure. A Nissan 280 rear end sounds fine especially if you can get it for free. Good luck

 

[92redman]

Starion tranny will not bolt up, wrong bellhousing. You wanting to use an axle for indepenant rear, or solid axle? For racing or just for daily driving? Makes a big difference in rear end you use.

For racing, a Ford 9in is used by many drag cars(not necessarily dsm) for it's strength and versitility. Also GM is a good choise, 10 bolt or 12 bolt for high torque.

For low powered street car: Nissan rear end should work, maybe a Conquest rearend, hyundai, etc... Just make sure the rear end ratio will work well w/ your trans gear ratios for your application.

 

[Catbox_95]

I don't know what you guys consider "low powered", but I will have roughly 400 hp. I think the 280ZX rear end would hold up, right? I know people put small blocks in 280's and don't change the rear and they hold up fine. It will not be just a drag car, it will be a street car. Otherwise, solid axle Ford 9" would be it.

I guess the main thing now is the tranny, so I can start planning of fitting everything.

 

[Shadowfax]

got an idea, why not use an AWD DSM rear end?!

You need a rear end that actually fits the dimensions of the car- the DSM would do a better job of fitting.

As for trannies, I'd go with the T5 Ford, pretty small body, independant bellhousing - fab your own bellhousing, use your stock flywheel with the correct sized clutch and you should do fine.

Granted it would be easier on an AWD to convert simply because there is already somewhat of a driveshaft tunnel, but that's a small thing to add

The 4G63 motor should be about 19" deep, don't forget that with a RWD tranny mounted you don't need the front motor mount. Two roll mounts and the tranny mount are enough.

 

[92redman]

The F4 tranny was used on my machine shope instructor's drag mustang before he switched to powerglide. It was a 3speed with a pretty small case and held up to the 700+ horse power, 9 sec runs for years(just freshened up every season w/ new clutches).

A guy in the Starquest community was able to use a manual tranny out of a D50 w/ Starquest internals but had to mix and match bearings from the two. If you want to use the Starquest bellhousing, you need to find the fabled wide block 2.4 engine.

Just throwing out a few ideas I had looked into. Decided not to pursue the rwd because of cost and amout of time/fabrication required. Good luck with yours though

 

[DevilSperm]

youre gonna have to tub it out and run some m/t 31" tires back there if you want traction....the dsm rear end is light as hell...i blew my center differential out once and i could punch it at 50 and smoke the tires...something to think about

 

[falcone4g63]

A different sugestion would be to mount a 4g63 with a fwd trands in the rear. Then you would have rwd without trying to mach transmissions and rear ends, you would just need to fab a way to mount it. Im sure it would throw the balance quite a bit but its just a sugestion.