Rear Wheel Drive [Merged 9-7]

[92redman]

Another thing to concider: we have unibodies which are semi flexible, if you are planing on putting horsepower back there and sticking to the ground with slicks, you may start twisting the unibody and making it weak. If you are looking to drag race, you may find the stock unibody to be to flimsy for higher power so you may need to back half the car like buschur did with his talon.
Just something to consider, I really have no idea if that will be an issue or not with the goals you have for the car.

 

[jbranne]

This is what I want to to, except with an LS1/T56.

The FWD cars alredy have a tunnel, so it's not a big deal.

I'm planning on using a solid axle for the rear....an 8.8 out of a '95-up Ford Explorer (up until they went IFS). It should be about the right width, it has the 5x4.5" bolt pattern, disc brakes, and many of them have 4.10s and an a factory LSD. On top of that, they are very common, very cheap, and very strong (comparable to a 9").

I think the biggest challenge will be clearance for a bellhousing. Like i said, there's a tunnel there, but there's not really a transition to it that would fit a bellhousing.

Also, I'll have to switch the fuel tank...either to an AWD tank or maybe a fuel cell....

 

[jbranne]

Another thing to concider: we have unibodies which are semi flexible, if you are planing on putting horsepower back there and sticking to the ground with slicks, you may start twisting the unibody and making it weak. If you are looking to drag race, you may find the stock unibody to be to flimsy for higher power so you may need to back half the car like buschur did with his talon.
Just something to consider, I really have no idea if that will be an issue or not with the goals you have for the car.

The 1G chassis is pretty rigid, compared to other cars...certainly more rigid than a GM F-body.

It could be complemented with a cage if needed, but I know guys running 500-600 hp in camaros with no problems....

 

[seth98es]

How bout the trans out of a mighty max? They have a RWD model, just send it out to get rebuilt with better parts. It will bolt up becaus ethe mighty maxes use 4g64s and a lot of people do 4g63t swaps in them. Just a thought...

 

[97TSIAWD]

If this is going to be a full race car, which I imagine it will be? I would go with either a PowerGlide tranny, one of the nicest around. Or use what Brent Rau has, not sure which brand but it is a Pro-Stock tranny, he launches with the clutch still and then the 5 speed pattern goes back, forth so on no clutch and you can shift pretty fast. They use these trannies to go 6's. I'm not sure though if your intending for this car to be a straight race car though.

 

[BlackHalo]

If this is going to be a full race car, which I imagine it will be? I would go with either a PowerGlide tranny, one of the nicest around. Or use what Brent Rau has, not sure which brand but it is a Pro-Stock tranny, he launches with the clutch still and then the 5 speed pattern goes back, forth so on no clutch and you can shift pretty fast. They use these trannies to go 6's. I'm not sure though if your intending for this car to be a straight race car though.

THink he said he wanted it to be a street car.

 

[Greg Collier]

Buschur did it and I'm sure it wasn't cheap!

 

[jbranne]

If this is going to be a full race car, which I imagine it will be? I would go with either a PowerGlide tranny, one of the nicest around. Or use what Brent Rau has, not sure which brand but it is a Pro-Stock tranny, he launches with the clutch still and then the 5 speed pattern goes back, forth so on no clutch and you can shift pretty fast. They use these trannies to go 6's. I'm not sure though if your intending for this car to be a straight race car though.

That sounds like a Lenco trans.

I want mine to be a street car. Powerglides are only 2 speeds, so definitely not a good choice for a street car.

Also, The engine bay in one of these is fairly large.....why just use the 4g63t?

That's why I'm going with an LS1....400 hp is an easy cam swap away, with potential for much more.

 

[trbotaln]

The AWD rear end will not hold up very long if you used it. Its is not meant to have that much load on it constantly.You would be better off using the Nissan rear or the Explorer rear. The mighty max tranny bolts to the 4g63 but I heard they don't last to long with a lot of power.

 

[1fstSS]

dont use a gm 10 bolt rear end!! there pretty fragile expecialy with anything over 350 hp, if you wanna use a GM axel use a 12 bolt, or get a ford 9 inch

 

[MNcordia]

how is this going to affect ride height? won't it be pretty close to dragging on the ground?
good luck and post pics when it's done.

 

[97TSIAWD]

Ahh I see. It will be hard to make it a RWD car without making some serious modifications to any tranny not built specially for this application. As for rear ends, Dana 44, strong rear end, sending Buicks and TTAs into the 8/9's but also daily driven, or as said a ford 9" which has been proven for years. If you going the route of putting in an LS1 drive train, that sounds very interesting and with the weight of the car would make for a killer street/strip car. One idea I have always had, my friend swapped a GN motor into a Mazda FC. Now I think it would be especially sweet in a 2g dsm or even a FD (I think they look way better). Either way this is going to be a difficult project many custom parts are going to be needed.

 

[Killa95GS-X]

this doesn't answer your question but i saw on a street racing video by teckademics called like mischief 3000 or something and they had a old mighty max pickup on there with a 4g63 and a 16g turbo and front mount ... that was a 4x4 with a selectable transfercase though, just thought i might let you know. later

nick

 

[Catbox_95]

Thanks for all of the help guys - Lots of info there.

I still want it to be very, very streetable. Mainly a street car, with the occasional run to the track and/or show on the weekends.

I considered a small block Chevy. I know the engine compartment is big enough, but it's the bellhousing that wouldn't clear without extensive use of a cutting torch. Not necessarily a problem, just an issue.

Today I ran on the dyno at UTI in North Houston and a guy there has an AWD 1g for sale with no engine or drivetrain (but he does still have the rearend and driveshaft) and he wants $300 for it. I went and took a look at it. Has a little fender/door damage but nothing major. I'm thinking about buying it and cutting it up. One of you said the 1g is more stiff, so it would be a perfect candidate.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Today I ran on the dyno at UTI

Sorry to go a little OT, but may I ask what you put down?

 

[Catbox_95]

Sorry to go a little OT, but may I ask what you put down?

Well, it wasn't my car's best day. My plugs were shot from too much boost and octane booster at the track, and they were in such a hurry they didn't let me tune a single thing. I put down 214 hp and 249 ft. lbs. at the tires. For some reason, it wouldn't pull past 6000 rpm and it would pop and sputter. I'm pretty sure it's the plugs though.

A video of the run is at www.senecahomes.net

 

[G-UNIT]

http://home.comcast.net/~galantvr4wd/BurnoutPart1.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~galantvr4wd/BurnoutPart2.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~galantvr4wd/Burnout.wmv

 

[aleccolin]

Might Max tranny would be easy, certain years came with 4G63s (non-turbo block, 8 valve head) and as mentioned before the 4g63t swap is popular with them, but wear and tear on the tranny is less a problem because you'll flame the hides long before breaking something inside (no weight over rear tires). The starion tranny may work if the bellhousings can be switched out, might want to look at some starion sites to see what they're doing there, since 4G63t swaps are popular into those as well.

As far as the rear end, are you trying to stay with independent suspension, or doing a solid rear axle with four link?

 

[SurgeGT]

dam! i cant link it. but look for the thread "trannies for rwd"

i was actually planning the same when all my other projects are done. ive have ALOT of fab expeirience and ive taken a TON a measurements on doing this. i'll share em maybe tomorrow. i have to get to bed...but things to consider...that havent been mentioned yet.

if you mount the 4g63 lengthwise your gonna have to notch the center of the hood to clear the cam gears. a subtle hood scoop maybe? (unless you push the engine past a fab'd firewall but you'll lose interior space)

ive looked at 240sx front spindles. the rear subframe looks nice too...but the 280 is a good choice too. i was actually thinking about haveing the DSM front spindles machined to run w/o a drive shaft running through it. a shop near me can do it. that would eliminate alot of fab'ing up the right suspension geometry for a front non-drive set up.

i'd go with a IRS. dont run the DSM IRS. solid axle is a no brainer job IMHO. alot easier to do but it will handle like a pig. no worth it.

and the FWD would be a better starting point than the AWD..again IMHO

 

[aleccolin]

Why would you have to change the front suspension? Leave it all in place and just use outer cups from the front CV axles. Leaving those in place (once the joint is disassembled and cleaned of grease of course) shouldn't hurt anything at all. The CV axle itself is not designed to offer any support in any direction, only a torque force applied to the wheel hub. As long as the rest of the suspension is in place, I would think the biggest concern is clearance an proper operation of the steering rack and tie rods.

This is a cool topic btw.

 

[SurgeGT]

just use outer cups from the front CV axles. Leaving those in place (once the joint is disassembled and cleaned of grease of course) shouldn't hurt anything at all.

maybe its just preference, but i would just prefer not to do it this way. i'd rather machine a dedicated RWD front spindle. but thats just me...

 

[ryu]

so have you finished it yet?

 

[Catbox_95]

All right, here's the deal now -
I started stripping the 1g awd tonight. Then I came up with a new plan - Now I want to take the awd components and convert my fwd to awd. For those of you about to flame me and ask "WTF?", the reason is simple; I have tons of blood, sweat and tears into my fwd and IMO it's a beautiful car now and it's just right, less the awd part. However, the awd car is simply ragged out, mostly. Would need TONS of work to get working like new, and lots of wiring/re-wiring. Whoever pulled the motor out just used a pair of wire cutters. So, I will convert my current fwd to awd using said components.

Then, to make the 1g awd car rwd, the plan is to use a solid axle (GM 12 bolt, Ford 9", etc) mated to a Turbo 350, 700r4 or 4L60 tranny and a 406ci small block Chevy. I'm warming up the cutting torch. It is this plan that I would like to hear your opinions on.

BTW, I have pretty much ANY 1g interior part for sale now, except for the front seats. Name the part and price and I'll stick it in the mail.

 

[Catbox_95]

http://home.comcast.net/~galantvr4wd/BurnoutPart1.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~galantvr4wd/BurnoutPart2.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~galantvr4wd/Burnout.wmv

Not quite sure why anyone would want to do that.

 

[jbranne]

See, I'm confused...what's the big deal with converting a FWD to AWD? The tunnel is already there, which would be the biggest problem.

Also, about the front knuckles....certainly no reason to ditch them. The do need to have some bolted connection to keep the bearing together in the front hub, but you woulnd't even need the CV axle cups for that....just use a large bolt. You'll have to put the steering rack in front of the axle centerline (not to mention find another rack set up for this arrangement). You can just swap the knuckles side to side to get the steering arms up front, but this messes up the ackerman steering geometry, so I'm not sure how to correct that.

IMO, I don't see much reason in making the car RWD and using a 4G63. My plan is to use a V8. If you're gonna go through this much trouble, might as well go all out. With mildly modded LS1s putting out 400 horses at the crank, this is the way to go.

And using a solid axle isn't a bad idea, and if set up correctly, it won't handle like a pig. Several years ago, SCCA started allowing IRS in certain classes. Many teams switched from solid axles to IRS and found no advantage in doing so. On a smooth track, they just couldn't tell the difference.