2G Questions about my 6 bolt.

[Mnuzzo07]

Short answer is i got the car from a buddy. I know the little that i do. If anyone can help me i have questions. Ive been searching and cant seem to find anyone who knows or any forum thats specific to what i need. You can see the build on my build sheet for what i know was done.

Reason i need help. I think my water pumps bad and i know i need to do the timing belt now too. I need to know what water pump to get and what belt etc because i dont think i can just get a 1G or 2G “kit” i would assume. Anything helps.

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[19Eclipse90]

If you have a 6-bolt, you need a 1G water pump. You’re matching the water pump to the generation of block, 1G or 2G.

The timing belt is the same, regardless of the block year.

 

[pauleyman]

If those engine pics are the engine in your car that isn't a 6bolt. It's a 2g 7bolt.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Your car is a 7 bolt not a 6 bolt. The engine mount is different. The oil pump is different and there is clearly a crank sensor. = 7 bolt aka most likely the original motor.

Looks like you can just buy a 2g kit from STM or a supporting vendor of your choice.

-Daniel

 

[19Eclipse90]

Ok, there is obviously more confusion than what I wanted to admit. I’m ASSuming the OP knows what engine is in their car, hence the thread title.

For the rest, there’s two different engine pictures shown so I’m not sure how anyone can absolutely conclude which of those is installed in the car from the single engine bay picture provided. It appears to me that the painted block is the one installed but that could just be be a trick on the eyes.

The block that is painted is a 6-bolt. It is using the Kiggly crank sensor and has a hydraulic tensioner with the mounting bolts on the same side. It does at least look like it’s paired with a 2G-style head because it has the mounting provisions for a 2Ga cam sensor behind the intake cam (even though it’s using the 2Gb style sensor on the opposite end of the camshaft), and the 2G thermostat housing bolts up.

What gives me pause here is that the 1G intake manifold is used. So if it’s a true 2G head, there’s potential for significant mismatch between the intake manifold’s runners and the intake ports in the head.

The Hyundai valve cover leads me to believe it’s one of those Hyundai heads that has all those 2G provisions in place but with intake ports to match a 1G intake manifold.

But that’s all conjecture. What I can see, again, is there are two different engines pictured. One is a 6-bolt (painted block), one is a 7-bolt.

OP, feel free to let us know which of the engine pics is the one installed in the car.

 

[pauleyman]

You're right. I assumed those were all the same engine.

OP you're going to have to figure out what you have in the car. We can o ly speculate so much.

 

[Mnuzzo07]

Ok, there is obviously more confusion than what I wanted to admit. I’m ASSuming the OP knows what engine is in their car, hence the thread title.

For the rest, there’s two different engine pictures shown so I’m not sure how anyone can absolutely conclude which of those is installed in the car from the single engine bay picture provided. It appears to me that the painted block is the one installed but that could just be be a trick on the eyes.

The block that is painted is a 6-bolt. It is using the Kiggly crank sensor and has a hydraulic tensioner with the mounting bolts on the same side. It does at least look like it’s paired with a 2G-style head because it has the mounting provisions for a 2Ga cam sensor behind the intake cam (even though it’s using the 2Gb style sensor on the opposite end of the camshaft), and the 2G thermostat housing bolts up.

What gives me pause here is that the 1G intake manifold is used. So if it’s a true 2G head, there’s potential for significant mismatch between the intake manifold’s runners and the intake ports in the head.

The Hyundai valve cover leads me to believe it’s one of those Hyundai heads that has all those 2G provisions in place but with intake ports to match a 1G intake manifold.

But that’s all conjecture. What I can see, again, is there are two different engines pictured. One is a 6-bolt (painted block), one is a 7-bolt.

OP, feel free to let us know which of the engine pics is the one installed in the car.

I pm’d you sorry guys i was at work here and didnt have a chance. Or owner said 100% is a full 1G swap? Sent me photos i had attached and that was all i know. If anyone does know anything from looking and what they can see (and actual facts) id love to know because he built it 10 years ago

OP you're going to have to figure out what you have in the car. We can o ly speculate so much.

OG owner said 100% full 1G swap.

Ok, there is obviously more confusion than what I wanted to admit. I’m ASSuming the OP knows what engine is in their car, hence the thread title.

For the rest, there’s two different engine pictures shown so I’m not sure how anyone can absolutely conclude which of those is installed in the car from the single engine bay picture provided. It appears to me that the painted block is the one installed but that could just be be a trick on the eyes.

The block that is painted is a 6-bolt. It is using the Kiggly crank sensor and has a hydraulic tensioner with the mounting bolts on the same side. It does at least look like it’s paired with a 2G-style head because it has the mounting provisions for a 2Ga cam sensor behind the intake cam (even though it’s using the 2Gb style sensor on the opposite end of the camshaft), and the 2G thermostat housing bolts up.

What gives me pause here is that the 1G intake manifold is used. So if it’s a true 2G head, there’s potential for significant mismatch between the intake manifold’s runners and the intake ports in the head.

The Hyundai valve cover leads me to believe it’s one of those Hyundai heads that has all those 2G provisions in place but with intake ports to match a 1G intake manifold.

But that’s all conjecture. What I can see, again, is there are two different engines pictured. One is a 6-bolt (painted block), one is a 7-bolt.

OP, feel free to let us know which of the engine pics is the one installed in the car.

Painted engine is in the car btw! I missed that. Hydundai valve cover is in the car currently and attached is the 1G manifold correct.

You're right. I assumed those were all the same engine.

Me too as i did not know hence why asking as well as having some issues and needed parts and had 0 idea what engine to go for haha. I think im getting what i needed though from 19eclipse. Thank you so much for the knowledge. Og owner said “Cause I made the 2G shit work. Its all 1G head and block. And I used a Hyundai valve cover because I found it freshly powered coated on eBay for cheap.And I knew it would mind f*** people like it is on his post ”

So turns out i got in contact with him through a friend if a friend and got this answer

 

[pauleyman]

That painted motor is a 6 bolt block but that is not a 1g 6bolt head. 1g head never had bolt on provisions for a cam sensor on either 6 or 7bolt 1g. 2g did and yes a 2g head will bolt to a 1g block. You may have to unbolt some stuff to figure out what is what

 

[Mnuzzo07]

That painted motor is a 6 bolt block but that is not a 1g 6bolt head. 1g head never had bolt on provisions for a cam sensor on either 6 or 7bolt 1g. 2g did and yes a 2g head will bolt to a 1g block. You may have to unbolt some stuff to figure out what is what

OG owner claims its all 2G on a 1G head. I can ask if he remembers how he made it work. Have an answer maybe in a few days as hes a family if a friend of mine.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Via PM, OP provided this picture.

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So the intake ports match the manifold which means it’s likely one of those Hyundai heads I mentioned previously. No big deal, but that’s why there was confusion on our side.

It’s a 6-bolt block, you can order a full 6-bolt kit if you so desire for your 60k timing belt-side maintenance needs. Water pumps are not 6- and 7-bolt specific, they are 1G and 2G specific. So what I stated in the original reply is still true, you need a 1G water pump for your 6-bolt block.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I'm confused where the crank signal is comming from on this car with the 97-99 crank sensor on the head. - Oh, I see it in one of the engine pics - Kiggly crank sensor adaptor.

 

[Mnuzzo07]

I'm confused where the crank signal is comming from on this car with the 97-99 crank sensor on the head. - Oh, I see it in one of the engine pics - Kiggly crank sensor adaptor.

I'm confused where the crank signal is comming from on this car with the 97-99 crank sensor on the head. - Oh, I see it in one of the engine pics - Kiggly crank sensor adaptor.

Yeah sent everything to 19Eclipse in a pm to get a clarification. OG owner said he built it to confuse people haha and indeed he did it seems!

 

[Justin DuBois]

Yeah sent everything to 19Eclipse in a pm to get a clarification. OG owner said he built it to confuse people haha and indeed he did it seems!

It's a good setup on a 6-Bolt 2G. I'm still trying to get mine setup that way.

 

[Dericsh]

OG owner claims its all 2G on a 1G head. I can ask if he remembers how he made it work. Have an answer maybe in a few days as hes a family if a friend of mine.

Contacting previous owners is generally a waste of both of your time. You’re in the right place to get the help you need, but like previously stated, you’re gonna have to tear into this engine and figure it out. Did anyone ask why you think the water pump is bad? What’s the car doing?

 

[Mnuzzo07]

Contacting previous owners is generally a waste of both of your time. You’re in the right place to get the help you need, but like previously stated, you’re gonna have to tear into this engine and figure it out. Did anyone ask why you think the water pump is bad? What’s the car doing?

Just seems leaky, and timing belt is a little oil soaked or something not too sure. Just gonna get it taken care of. Already has this much done, doesn't hurt to go back and make sure somethings done right and less worries later.

 

[Dericsh]

Just seems leaky, and timing belt is a little oil soaked or something not too sure. Just gonna get it taken care of. Already has this much done, doesn't hurt to go back and make sure somethings done right and less worries later.

Definitely don’t want that. Sounds like you’re headed in a good direction.

 

[Mnuzzo07]

Just seems leaky, and timing belt is a little oil soaked or something not too sure. Just gonna get it taken care of. Already has this much done, doesn't hurt to go back and make sure somethings done right and less worries later.

I do have a slight running hot issue right now but that is due to a fried fan. Got a turbo blanket, wastegate blanket, factory heat shielding, going to heat wrap some exhaust and stuff there, new mitsimoto 2200 cfm pull fans, one 10” spal push fan and a new 180* thermostat. Gonna so all that with flushing the coolant and should be more than okay.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

OG owner said he built it to confuse people haha and indeed he did it seems!

Biggest confusion is you posted two different motors. The one is clearly a 2g 7 bolt bottom end with balance shafts. The other is the 6 bolt with no balance shafts.

I seen the bottom picture and pulled the trigger on it being 2g 7 bolt. Lucky for us Brian has a good eye and is when I realized he was exactly right. Everything Brian said in his 1st and 2nd post is 100% on point.

-Daniel

 

[19Eclipse90]

I’m surprised, since it normally happens so quickly, that no one has mentioned that the OP ought to be recirculating their BOV back into the intake pipe.

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Other than that, I’ve got nothing else to add.

 

[Mnuzzo07]

Biggest confusion is you posted two different motors. The one is clearly a 2g 7 bolt bottom end with balance shafts. The other is the 6 bolt with no balance shafts.

I seen the bottom picture and pulled the trigger on it being 2g 7 bolt. Lucky for us Brian has a good eye and is when I realized he was exactly right. Everything Brian said in his 1st and 2nd post is 100% on point.

-Daniel

Yes he was 100% spot on. I had no idea got spammed photos. So he just helped me a tom learning about my car! Og owner finally got in contact and sounds like he knew what he was doing and made this wild contraption somehow to intentionally confuse people he said

I’m surprised, since it normally happens so quickly, that no one has mentioned that the OP ought to be recirculating their BOV back into the intake pipe.

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Other than that, I’ve got nothing else to add.

Hmm i can get that done. May I ask why if you dont mind? Funny i had brough car to a renown dsm shop to “look over” and a tune because i had a family death and no time. Just wanted it to be right (idk 4Gs) Paid them 2k and got a car barely running when i gave em a running car noticing manifold bolts missing asked to check valve cover got it back with every bolt loose leaking oil.

I’m surprised, since it normally happens so quickly, that no one has mentioned that the OP ought to be recirculating their BOV back into the intake pipe.

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Other than that, I’ve got nothing else to add.

So i believe it is a tial blow off. I think i read somewhere they dont recirc is that true? Also car will be on speed density here ina few weeks, will that matter much then? Kits in the garage waiting haha.

 

[19Eclipse90]

You recirculate it because, with your current MAF setup, the air is metered at the MAF. The measurements are used by the ECU to calculate fuel needed for achieving the correct air to fuel ratio.

When the BOV dumps to atmosphere, there is no measuring how much air is actually lost so the ECU still thinks that the original volume still exists when, in fact, it is lower than measured. This will causes a rich condition and less than ideal performance.

This all goes away when you go to speed density. I don’t know the ins and outs of speed density like others do, but it would allow you to dump the BOV to atmosphere.

Now, I said I had nothing else to add but relooking at your engine bay photo and discussing the BOV, where does the small house atop the BOV run to?

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It’s going completely the wrong direction from what I would expect. It ought to go to the intake manifold. Just curious what it’s actually going to on the other end.

 

[Mnuzzo07]

You recirculate it because, with your current MAF setup, the air is metered at the MAF. The measurements are used by the ECU to calculate fuel needed for achieving the correct air to fuel ratio.

When the BOV dumps to atmosphere, there is no measuring how much air is actually lost so the ECU still thinks that the original volume still exists when, in fact, it is lower than measured. This will causes a rich condition and less than ideal performance.

This all goes away when you go to speed density. I don’t know the ins and outs of speed density like others do, but it would allow you to dump the BOV to atmosphere.

Now, I said I had nothing else to add but relooking at your engine bay photo and discussing the BOV, where does the small house atop the BOV run to?

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It’s going completely the wrong direction from what I would expect. It ought to go to the intake manifold. Just curious what it’s actually going to on the other end.

Hmm to be honest i dint remember off the top of my head will post picture when i get home later today. Im thinking maybe the boost solenoid ?? If that makes sense i know its to the right that way.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

So i believe it is a tial blow off. I think i read somewhere they dont recirc is that true?

Doesnt look like a Tial. Looks like a Greddy-style. Tials, except for the Tial QR dont typically have a spout on front for a recirculation hose.

Oh, and OEM EVO 9 timing belts are kevlar, there is also a kevlar Gates brand. 2 options when you get ready to purchase.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That looks like an NGR BOV to me. I have a few laying around. I use a crushed 1g.

 

[Mnuzzo07]

Blow off is greddy as 6bolt said. I forgot i had it swapped before buying i forget why i totally forgot about that. The tial went to the bin.

Doesnt look like a Tial. Looks like a Greddy-style. Tials, except for the Tial QR dont typically have a spout on front for a recirculation hose.

Oh, and OEM EVO 9 timing belts are kevlar, there is also a kevlar Gates brand. 2 options when you get ready to purchase.

You are right i forgot i had swapped them prior to tuning and buying the car That's my mistake! Sorry about that one. Things have been moving too fast and getting moved off since it had some older non working things when car was OG bought since it sat for 10 years or so.