Question about stroker...

[stockfornow]

Hey, I got couple of questions. How much of bore should be done to the engine in order to make it a 2.3L is it 86mm .040 considering the stock ones are 85mm. Or am I missing something, if I do, can someone teach me how this works, the calculations? And another question if I get the switchable 2-4 wheel drive trannsmission, would I get better gas mileage on a FWD? Thanks for all your help. I'm really getting now into this cars now, I want to be able to build mine for the next summer. Thanks, again to anybody.

 

[donmagicjuan]

A 2.3L stroker engine is built using a larger 4G64 crankshaft in a 4G63 (2.0L) block with custom pistons and rods. The extra displacement comes from the longer crank throw (hence, a longer stroke). The size bore of your pistons should depend on the overbore of your cylinders, just as in an ordinary rebuild. I believe most vendors offer 0.020, 0.030, 0.040, and 0.060 over. You really won't gain an appreciable amount of displacement from the extra bore when compared to that gained from the longer stroke.

If you'd like to know more, search "stroker" in thread titles only, and you'll find a plethora of information on the subject.

 

[stockfornow]

So, ok then I need some help here again. So, I got a 2.4L crank from a Sonata, which is also a 6 bolt. Some good info I found was in here:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~ksmith3289/faq/dsmstroker/dsmstroker.html


I also got the the H beam rods with Wiseco 8.8:1. After I got all this I heard that it's not a good idea to do this since there will be a lot more pressure on the cylinder walls. Is that true, and what kind of problems am I going to run into with this engine? Would it last me at least 60K if I will put 16 psi on the daily basis from a .50 trim turbo, and two times a month at 22psi? Also would it be safe to rev it past 7.5K rpms on my setup. And anybody who has a stroker please let me know of any problems that you ran into when putting it all together or later when you have assembled it all. Like when you drove it after a while, any problems with the block getting an egg shaped cylinder wall, or anything like it.
And off the topic question, is this a good deal:
http://www.importevolution.com/prod...=3629&osCsid=14fcab357b7d5d3a1a2a3509f6b94ad4

not a knock off or anything?
Any help would be really appreciated. (Sorry for a long post)

 

[JamiesTSI]

You do not need custom rods. The stock rods will work. You do need custom pistons which all it does is off set the wrist pin 6 mm.

 

[drewvr4]

stroker unless you want to sink alot of money into it...honestly doesnt seem worth it to me.

Get you some Eagle H-Beam Rods
and some Wiseco 9.0:1 pistons

Get some kind of 6 bolt crank...and call it a day...will hold power just fine and plenty more then your going to throw at it.

 

[stockfornow]

Well that's what I got. The same size rods, but shortened pistons/stroker pistons. I got all that on ebay, as a kit.

 

[drewvr4]

post a link to the auction if it still shows...or find one thats the same and post it so we can see what you have

 

[donmagicjuan]

Generally people don't dive into building a stroker engine without doing their homework. The engine definitely has its pros and cons. The added displacement should make for a much quicker spool on your turbo, it will make more power at lower RPMs, and it will improve off-boost torque significantly. The downside is the less desirable rod ratio, which increases side loading and lowers the potential redline of the engine. Piston speeds are also much different than on a stock 2.0, which may change your cam requirements. I think most strokers start to get really unhappy at about 9k, provided you have all the right hardware. However, most people don't build this engine to be very high-revving. I'll let some of the other members running this engine know about this thread so that they can offer their own opinions and experiences.

 

[stockfornow]

Here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&item=220022529360&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1


See, if I was to get rods and pistons separate, it would have cost me about the same, if not more. But I got these now, and they look in decent shape, except that the pistons have some black stuff on them, probably from running too rich, or something.

 

[stockfornow]

Thanks, Don, a lot. I guess, I will just wait for their replies.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Ok, firstly I would like to say this. I do not have a stroker, but I have been researching the 2.3L stroker for nearly a year, pulling up every bit of info I can on this engine with its pros and cons. Ok, for the parts needed: 4G64 crank, 2.3L stroker pistons, 5.9" length rods...same as 1G big rods. According to Magnus the upgrade of doing just the stroker will give way to 130 more TQ, and 50 more HP. It will increase spool time on big turbo's, it will make any turbo smaller then a 20g useless. Andy(andymoraitis) has this kit...well basicly the same kit, but he bought it off SBR. He revs his to 7k, but not much higher, due to the rod ratio on strokers, in high rpms, they put stress on the cyl walls, and cause oval shaped wear on the walls...this is not good at all. If you are going 7.5k plus rpms, I would just built the valvetrain up, and go forged internals, and stick with the 2.0L, there is a reason why shep and rau still run 2.0s, they are happy with staying about 8k rpms. If you go past 7500rpms, the stock valvetrainmust be upgraded, doesnt need dual springs, but single crowers or manleys with Ti-retainers will do the trick. The strocker endings will also need cams that are intended to get max efficiency out of it. The lobes of the cams should be 104*, the FP 3s are great stroker cams, Darren at FFWD uses his DKS 2 cams in all his strokers with no problems, if you just get 272s, or comp 200s, you will be pinning them all day long. Large turbo's such as the GT35R spool around 4k on strokers, and this is due to the added 20% more air that can be pushed threw. Your off boost TQ will be upped considerably.

The stock rods will work.

This is true for 1G "big rods", I believe 2Gs are different, the rods must be 5.900"s long.

How much of bore should be done to the engine in order to make it a 2.3L is it 86mm .040 considering the stock ones are 85mm.

There is no need to bore the motor to make it a 2.3L, if you want to use the 4G63 block, and do a 2.4L"technicly" speaking ofcourse you would bore it .060 over, and use the 4G64 crank(100mm stroke), rods, 2.3L pistons(.060 over-bore), and 4G63 block. But I wouldnt do that, I was just throwing that out there, because you were asking about boring it out.

The downside is the less desirable rod ratio, which increases side loading and lowers the potential redline of the engine.

This is true, so if you want a 9k drag engine this isnt it, you can drag with it but I wouldnt go past 7k with it do to the side loading con, it is a great street engine, and autoX car. Im not sure if the EVO 2.3L stroker kits are improved, but the cyber evo, and the HKS evo(both time attack) use 2.3L strokers, and they are way up in the rpm range, but Im not sure if they replace the blocks every couple races of what not, do to side loading if it occurs in the EVO strokers. I will be going to UTI in October to work on cars, but soon as I graduate Im going with a 2.3L stroker in my fwd TSi from FFWD, I will be draging it a couple time per month, but wont be going past 7.5k rpms. It will be a street driven monster when Im finished with it. From all of my research and everyone that I have talked with who has this motor its a blast on the street, and with a big turbo you can break the tires loose on the highway, of course if you get on it 1st and 2nd will be useless.
Go check out the stroker tech section in the cylinder/block section, and have a go at it, thats where I have been reading up on this, and it gives you an idea of who's running it, so you can PM them and get personal expereinces.
As for gasmilage, you will get better gasmile if you are a true FWD due to less weight, but if your AWD and want the JDM GVR4 tranny that is switchable with the vicious couplers, it wont make milage any better, but it will net you more places to dyno the beast when its finished.

Dustin

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Sorry for the long post guys, and just an added bit of info, I wouldnt buy something like this off eBAY unless it was a shop like SBR selling it on there.
Just my .02.

Dustin

 

[andymoraitis]

How about some firsthand experience from someone who has one.

While there are common misconeptions about strokers being less reliable due to the rod ratio and piston speed, most of these concerns come about from people trying to rev the motor like it's a 2.1. The stroker is amazing for off boost torque and the air velocities through the motor are markedly improved when compared to a 2.0. If assembly is done properly, and a large enough turbo is used, the stroker is an exceptional daily driver and can be more than reliable. Rev it to 8K and treat it like a smaller displacement motor and you'll enjoy pretty egg shaped cylinder walls from the side loading.

Just remember that since these motors are air hungry, 16G's aren't going to cut it unless you want an auto-x car with plenty of low end. For a great street car, I'd recommend something that flows as least as much as a 50 trim or larger. Keep in mind that since the volumetric efficiency of the motor is different, having the right combination of valvetrain parts also helps. While it's not a must, sheet metal intakes and head porting also do wonders to increase flow (this is true of any motor).

If you feel that this is the right combination for you, do your research and talk to the best shops in the business like FFWD, Magnus and Buschur. For cam and turbo selection, talk to Forced Performance. Building one of these isn't cheap, but if done properly it can be a rewarding experience. More importantly, determine what your goals are. If you want something with plenty of torque that will see duty on the street, the 2.3 is tons of fun. If you want to regale your friends with stories of how you can rev to 9K, you're better off with a built 2.0.

Good luck in making your choice,


Andy

 

[donmagicjuan]

Thanks for your added input, fellas. Dustin, you need to quit reading about it and build it already!

And Andy, it's always a treat to read your posts. You use all the cool words, like "regale." Nice information, guys.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

In light of another topic that was recently up here about road tripping and the short 5th gears on these cars...

What's the long term reliablity like, even with a stock redline. The piston speed must be significantly higher and crusing down the highway at 3,500rpm before is probably more like 4,000-4,500rpm equivalant piston speeds. This must wear the pistons, rings, and walls faster. The car wasn't geared with those piston speeds in mind.

 

[andymoraitis]

Tyler,

If mine lasts for 70K, I'll be a pretty happy guy but I don't see why it wouldn't last longer. I have exceptional compression (175-175-175-180 with Comp 200's), it doesn't use any oil and I have it on a more conservative tune (richer with less timing) just to keep things safe. Actually, buku timing hasn't been recommended by any of the shops I've spoken to about strokers. Jarrod over at Buschur though the 12 degrees of timing advance I was running was high.

As far as the piston speed, I'm not a machiniist so I can't tell you what the exact difference is at highway speeds for example between the 2.0 and the 2.3. Then again I'm really not worried about it. I'm responsible about fully warming the motor before I beat on it and I never shift above 7000-7200 RPM. I may tear the head off in a year and have a look at the cylinder walls to check the wear pattern, but I'm really not concerned.

It would be great to have someone with more experience (like maybe Don since he's a physics whiz) calculate the difference in piston speed between the two motors at similar RPM's (i.e 3000 RPM in a 2.0 is like ____ RPM in a 2.3).

Up for it Don?

 

[andymoraitis]

And Andy, it's always a treat to read your posts. You use all the cool words, like "regale."

Thanks Don. Must be the appreciation for literature coming through...

 

[donmagicjuan]

I'll give it a go. You'll just have to wait a little longer than normal because I'll be doing it during dinner! Be back with an edit. . .

 

[andymoraitis]

Take your time. The last thing we need is to upset the family balance at home. It would be great to see what you come up with though. Since you're wife's awfully sharp, don't feel embarassed if she comes up with the answer first!

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Im glad you found this thread Andy. I figured if I mentioned you you would find it

Dustin, you need to quit reading about it and build it already!

Yeah I know Don, I will but I want to get my education out of the way first, because Ill be going with a bullet proof engine, and tranny with all the support for a GT35R, so itll be expensive. Im not really researching it anymore, because Ive found out almost everything about it, but new little tricks seem to come out every week, so I try to keep up on the news.

Dustin

 

[andymoraitis]

Ill be going with a bullet proof engine, and tranny with all the support for a GT35R, so itll be expensive

Better make that thing out of Kevlar if you want bulletproof. Sorry Dustin, couldn't resist. In all seriousness, a ounce of conservative is a pound of reliable. Just be smart about your tuning and it'll work well for you.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Better make that thing out of Kevlar if you want bulletproof. Sorry Dustin, couldn't resist. In all seriousness, a ounce of conservative is a pound of reliable. Just be smart about your tuning and it'll work well for you.

Hahaha, Andy. Im have to give you a call when I need to tune it in. Ill shoot you a PM with my build sheet from Darren, its better then kevlar .

Dustin

 

[andymoraitis]

Hahaha, Andy. Im have to give you a call when I need to tune it in.

Oooh, you don't want me to tune that thing. I'll probably want to steal the motor and trans and I don't think you'd like that too much. Besides, I tune old school and you'll need something like Link to get the most out of it and I'm not familiar with it. We could run a custom chip to get you started but a complete tuning solution is a much better option since it's more flexible

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Yeah Link all the way for me, Ill probably have the guys down at my local DSM shop tune it on the dyno jet, they are wizzes with AEM EMS, Halltechs, and links, plus much more. I figure the amount of boost that will be run on these motor will need larger injectors then S-AFCs can handle, so either your custom timing/af ratio chip solution or link, or stand alone EMS. After I get it tuned up, and get about 1500miles on it after the motoman break in Ill drive it out to Auburn for a little road trip, and let you have a peak

Dustin

 

[andymoraitis]

You have a deal sir. I'll even pull the Mustang out of the garage so you can park it inside (if my wife will let me!)