Porting Tools [Merged 3-8] Tool die grinder Dremel

[elementalwindx]

So far I've spent 6-8 hours today porting the exhaust side of my 1g head. I got 3 of the 4 ports semi done. The first port I used that carbide burr and that kinda cut too deep too quick and the rest I used one of those orangish/redish cutting stones. I found out if I use a spray gun and constantly spray water on my dremmel that the tools last a hell of a lot longer . I'm such a newb. I looked at the intake side to port it but it was so clean and oil free already and I put the gasket up to it and saw that there was barely any room to open the ports as it is, so I dont quite understand wtf it is you guys port on the intake side

Also after you use a cutting stone, what do you guys use to smooth out the surfaces?

 

[Jason84]

porting isnt about making the ports HUGE there is a science to it i had a JAM top of the line ported head the exhaust side was hardly touched intake side was pretty big... heres some pics
this is a cnc ported head

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if you wanted to buy this head from JAM it would be $2600 thats just the head casing with oversized valves dual valvesprings titanium retainers nothing else

 

[groundPork]

porting a head is a science not something you really want to do by hand. besides the stock 4g63 head will get you anywhere you need to go unless your looking into building yourself a 10second car.

Absolutely right... The stock head really works well to begin with, so don't espect huge gains from the porting secessarily, but a quality race valve job, will be well woth the while. Although.. you must remember, that CNC porting programs are pretty much patterned from a hand ported casting which is flow tested... the sns part is merely for speed, and consistancy (not that most pro head ported should be able to be almost as consistant).

Use cutting wax, and your tools will hardly clog at all, even the stones, and they still cut as good as when dry.

http://www.ruffstuff.com/pages/specbur.html#chem

Use chemtrend... many pro porters do, great stuff, and cheap...

Not that we'll be able to tell a lot from visual, but could you post pics for sh*ts and Giggles...?

Remeber your fingers will tell you so much more than your eyes when porting.

 

[elementalwindx]

Ok ok, remember this is my first ever and I'm not even half way done with the intake side so here ya go, for all your viewing pleasure.

Link: http://www.ipmcomputers.com/images/head/ Check em' out. Its all the exhaust side. I really do not see any need to port the intake side at all. I was mainly aiming to clean the exhaust side and then I got the urge to remove metal. But take a look at them, I havn't ported the #4 port yet so you can see just how dirty those ports were.

 

[arash15]

im no head porter, but normally youd want to smooth out the bowl area. thats where your going to get all the power. clean up the nicks and uneveness. smooth everything else out and clean it up some more. You need to remove the valves to get deeper in the head where porting really counts.

 

[groundPork]

Ok ok, remember this is my first ever and I'm not even half way done with the intake side so here ya go, for all your viewing pleasure.

Link: http://www.ipmcomputers.com/images/head/ Check em' out. Its all the exhaust side. I really do not see any need to port the intake side at all. I was mainly aiming to clean the exhaust side and then I got the urge to remove metal. But take a look at them, I havn't ported the #4 port yet so you can see just how dirty those ports were.

Well.... better than the first head I ever ported! It'll work, but I can see you're pretty close to gasket line with thte port exit, and you didn't scribe a guide line with the gasket, which is why the opening looks oblong... not so much Performance as asthetics though. You are border line taking too much material from the wrong places, that little dremel thing is probably making it very hard to take smooth sweeping cuts (thats how the pro tools have such nuniform port surface).I can see it's dacing around all over the port... that makes it hard for you to blend sharp coners properly. I think it looks like you started out with thte generally right idea, and succumb to the usual mid porting overenthusiastic hog fest! As some of us may tell you many many times in the near future... slow down your cutter RPM (which is evident in the photos from the chattering and digging), lock your wrist, and control your cutter but be aware of where it wants to go... you also don't want to plow through something just cause it's in your line of site.

Just smooth, don't remove material Like you're doing from the immidiate port opening.

I agree with removing the valve train to BLEND (not open) the bowls. DO NOT HIT THE SEATS or you'll ruin them. it'll also let more light in for you to get a better idea of where you trying to wrok... but remen=mber fingers know best....

Finally, revisiting point made earlier... slow your cutter down, yes it may take fractionally longer, but you'll get better control, the tool will cut period. and you'll help reduce build up of aluminum in your cutters (pain in the ass to take out). try wd-40 or candle wax if you really don't want to spend money on chemtrend... but keep the cutter loaded!


Blend blend blend... no more hogging!

 

[mathew82284]

Ive searched and read over alot of topics about porting but none of them could help me find a die grinder at a store and not onine. So Today my 16g came in and i have the week off so i decided to buy a die grinder my luck i went to home depot today bought one and then in the parking lot turned arround and returned it because it was for a air gun not electric, they didnt have any there and the guy that worked there say that they dont carry them at there store. Where can i purchase a die grinder at? I went to home depot and ace hardware and they dont have it. Would Autozone have it? Kragen? Also i read i want carbin bits and reading something about blur bits. Would these be at the store too?

 

[MrBoxx]

The best tool to use for porting is an air powered die grinder, probably the same one you bought and returned. I'm sure there may exist an electric one that could work, but anything like a Dremel tool won't have enough juice to quickly and effectively port something like a turbine housing. If anyone knows of an electric die grinder that will work, please give your input or experience.

The bits you should use are a carbide burr, a sanding stone and/or a flapper wheel. On my porting job, I used just the burr and the sanding stone, and I think it worked pretty well. Others use a sanding stone to get a fine polish.

Carbide Burr (should look more or less like this):

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Sanding stones (come in a variety of shapes):

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Flapper wheel:

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The most important things to do when porting is to make sure the turbine housing inlet is smooth (no ring gasket step, no rough surfaces) and to clear out a little material before the wastegate opening to reduce the possibility and effect of boost creep. There are several good articles on this site, as well as the vfaq in the porting section.

 

[elementalwindx]

Well.... better than the first head I ever ported! It'll work, but I can see you're pretty close to gasket line with thte port exit, and you didn't scribe a guide line with the gasket, which is why the opening looks oblong... not so much Performance as asthetics though. You are border line taking too much material from the wrong places, that little dremel thing is probably making it very hard to take smooth sweeping cuts (thats how the pro tools have such nuniform port surface).I can see it's dacing around all over the port... that makes it hard for you to blend sharp coners properly. I think it looks like you started out with thte generally right idea, and succumb to the usual mid porting overenthusiastic hog fest! As some of us may tell you many many times in the near future... slow down your cutter RPM (which is evident in the photos from the chattering and digging), lock your wrist, and control your cutter but be aware of where it wants to go... you also don't want to plow through something just cause it's in your line of site.

Just smooth, don't remove material Like you're doing from the immidiate port opening.

I agree with removing the valve train to BLEND (not open) the bowls. DO NOT HIT THE SEATS or you'll ruin them. it'll also let more light in for you to get a better idea of where you trying to wrok... but remen=mber fingers know best....

Finally, revisiting point made earlier... slow your cutter down, yes it may take fractionally longer, but you'll get better control, the tool will cut period. and you'll help reduce build up of aluminum in your cutters (pain in the ass to take out). try wd-40 or candle wax if you really don't want to spend money on chemtrend... but keep the cutter loaded!


Blend blend blend... no more hogging!

Yeah I did all that at max speed or next to max in hopes of getting some of it done faster, and I had planned on smoothing it all out towards the end. Thanks for the tips guys. Also I had the gasket bolted down while I was doing the work, as I kept forgetting to buy a scribe when I went to lowes, and I tried markers but that didnt work, they kept washing off . I agree, I think I am really close to too much in some areas. Hopfully I will have better luck later in the week.

 

[Caithness]

I agree with removing the valve train to BLEND (not open) the bowls. DO NOT HIT THE SEATS or you'll ruin them.

I know if you touch them anywhere near the valve seating surface (at or past the first angle of the stock three-angle job) you ruin them and might not be able to fix it even with a valve job, requiring new seats. But can you grind the part of the seat farthest away from the valve seating surface, at the intersection with the valve bowl, to match it to the head casting? In the 4g63 heads I have laying around, especially earlier heads like the junker 90 head I have, the seats are offset pretty badly from the valve bowls, so that the seat actually forms a lip protruding from the side of the bowl. It seems like the only way to fix that would be to grind the backside of the seat flush with the bowl in as smooth a transition as you can make while staying far away from the valve sealing surface. I can't see how this could hurt the valve seat, though I guess if you ground too far, they couldn't grind the valve seat for a valve job so you'd have to leave room for that. I've seen aftermarket ported heads where the seat looked to be ground flush with the bowl, but those were +1mm so the primary grinding might have been on the head. It seems to me that the biggest gain in head porting on our heads would be in removing a step right at the valve seat that can be as much as 1/16", along with removing all of the casting dingleberries in the bowl (some of them were an 1/8th high on my head- terrible).

 

[kenamond]

I got my die grinder off of harbor freight for like $45. Get double-cut burrs or you're have some nasty wiskers of sharp metal everywhere. The double-cut burrs produce shavings much like sand or kind of like thick glitter which is easier to clean up and won't cut you very easily. The cylinder sphere end shape seemed to work best for me (the flame was harder to make smooth cuts). I recommend a 1/2 or 5/8" diameter bit with a 1" long head and 2-1/2" shank. By the way, the harbor freight grinder is HUGE compared to an air grinder, but it worked flawlessly.

The flap wheels in a dremel tool are a godsend for cleaning up after you've finished grinding. They work very quickly and make a nice, smooth surface.

If you want a shiney finish, you can hand sand. I used 100, 220, 600, then wet 600. You could go up to 1000 grit and polishing compound if you want to get rediculous (I would have, but I didn't have 1000 grit or polishing compound).

Here's what I ended up with.

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EDIT: You can clean up the wastegate entrance in those hard-to-reach areas by holding the WG flapper open and inserting the flapper wheel on a dremel in the opening from the O2 housing side and polish it up nice (you can't get at some of this with a grinder or sander easily from the inlet side). If you have a new flapper wheel, it'll be too large of a diameter, but if you've sanded the rest of the turbine inlet already, it will have worn down to a smaller diameter. You could always take it to your concrete floor to make it smaller if you need to .

 

[MrBoxx]

Holy Mirror-Finish, Batman!

The next turbo I port is gonna look like THAT when I'm done!!

 

[oldman]

Wear goggles, trust me.

 

[kenamond]

I had a full face guard *and* goggles. And gloves. And hat. And long-sleeved everything. And 8'x10' tarps draped like curtains around my workbench to keep the chips from going very far. Double cut or diamond cut burrs, please! Single-cut shavings are EVIL.

 

[groundPork]

I know if you touch them anywhere near the valve seating surface (at or past the first angle of the stock three-angle job) you ruin them and might not be able to fix it even with a valve job, requiring new seats. But can you grind the part of the seat farthest away from the valve seating surface, at the intersection with the valve bowl, to match it to the head casting? In the 4g63 heads I have laying around, especially earlier heads like the junker 90 head I have, the seats are offset pretty badly from the valve bowls, so that the seat actually forms a lip protruding from the side of the bowl. It seems like the only way to fix that would be to grind the backside of the seat flush with the bowl in as smooth a transition as you can make while staying far away from the valve sealing surface. I can't see how this could hurt the valve seat, though I guess if you ground too far, they couldn't grind the valve seat for a valve job so you'd have to leave room for that. I've seen aftermarket ported heads where the seat looked to be ground flush with the bowl, but those were +1mm so the primary grinding might have been on the head. It seems to me that the biggest gain in head porting on our heads would be in removing a step right at the valve seat that can be as much as 1/16", along with removing all of the casting dingleberries in the bowl (some of them were an 1/8th high on my head- terrible).

You have hit a lot of very good points, that I mgiht add, are very significant concerns for pro head porters. Yes, you want to match/blend the seat i.d. to the bowl. Yes you can seriously ruin a seat if you gouge or chatter the seat face itslef bad enough. Yes you can open the "throat" too much. When you concetrate on that area... speed and off the seat flow is what you're working on. This is why I stress the importance of the valve job. let me elaborate... You all clearly understand that just upgrading the size of your injectors is not necessarily enough to supply fuel for high horse engines. Notice that getting larger injectors will do nothing if the Pump itslef can't supply enough fuel!... like wise... doesn;t matter if you port the head huge or get TWO milimeter over valves, cause the actual restriction is still the seat. racing vavle jobs for turbo small motors usually end up with intake angles being a negative radius at the very top to a 15 to a 30, to the 45 seat, to the 60, then to another radius leading into the throat... exhausts usually have full radii top and bottom with a 45 seat. The big thing is they always have the lead in prior to the seat itself be about .020-.035" smaller than the leading side of the seat (for best reliability of sealing and flow). The seats themselves should be about .045" wide on the intake and .060" for the exhaust to avoid burning a valve and to give best flow off the seat. It's a very fine balance between seat width and heat conduction from the valve to the seat to avoid burning a valve.

The important thing is that the opening immidiately after the seat be almost as large as the seat opening. i amrunning low on steam right now and can't write all of the important points of the valve job down here now, but I can tell you if you think you're getting the most from a generic machine shop stone ground three angle valve job youre sadly mistaken. Also the back cut on the valve is also very important. I find best is 28.5 lead into a 30 degree into the seat which should be no more than .020 wider than the valve seat without being smaller than the seating surface itself.

Now there is still leaps and bounds more to write on this, but It'd take for EVER! This and tha fact that not very many people have the ability to port properly, is why I only encourage BLENDING. You don't re-shape the port, or the bowl, or even knife edge the splitter iin the port. Just make the the transitions smooth.

Look closely at the CNC photos up top... imagine trying to copy it by hand.... takes more practice than most realize.

Here's some more good stuff for reference material.

http://www.mondellotwister.com/ArtHeadPort.htm

http://www.pure-tuning.com/pages/services/honda.htm

 

[groundPork]

http://www.rehermorrison.com/techTalk/57.htm

Read this... mcuh better better said than i could ever.

 

[mathew82284]

I had a full face guard *and* goggles. And gloves. And hat. And long-sleeved everything. And 8'x10' tarps draped like curtains around my workbench to keep the chips from going very far. Double cut or diamond cut burrs, please! Single-cut shavings are EVIL.

Ok well my question never got answered . Where can i buy a die grinder at localy for about $40? sears sells them but only for 80 and up. Home depot doesnt sell electric ones. Where can i buy one localy? or do i have to order online?

 

[seajay2525]

I agree with the others on the heavy grinding though. You should use air for the heavy duty work. If you've already checked most of the local hardware stores and didn't find what you were looking for, you should look online. You can find anything online: cars, car parts, porn, women, die grinder, etc.

 

[Caithness]

Some good info, thanks.

 

[Killa95GS-X]

just take your time use wd-40 with the carbide bits so they dont clog , and do not polish the intake! you can run the risk of fuel puddling. but you can polish the exhaust side all you want . and try to port match the manifolds to head so you get optimal flow with no restriction . good luck

nick

 

[kenamond]

Ok well my question never got answered . Where can i buy a die grinder at localy for about $40? sears sells them but only for 80 and up. Home depot doesnt sell electric ones. Where can i buy one localy? or do i have to order online?

Sorry. I meant Harbor Freight **online**.

I drove around to every frikkin' hardware store, auto parts store, etc., but none of them had an electric die grinder. It shipped pretty quickly (less than a week). I was like you, though, and wanted one NOW rather than a week from now, but whaddaya do when nobody carries one.

I disagree with seajay2525 about air vs electric. My electric grinder was haulin' ass through the metal without even slowing down. It's alot bigger, but the head is slim and gets deep into your part without any problem. I'm not saying electric is better, I'm just saying it isn't worse.

EDIT: Here is the model I got.

 

[elementalwindx]

I've come a LONG way with my newb porting and it looks awesome! I have one question though. When it comes to polishing the ports, do you guys know how to use the white buffer wheels for longer than a minute or two? Once they get dirty it seems they become pointless and I'm using a LOT of wheels and that costs a LOT of money

 

[groundPork]

I've come a LONG way with my newb porting and it looks awesome! I have one question though. When it comes to polishing the ports, do you guys know how to use the white buffer wheels for longer than a minute or two? Once they get dirty it seems they become pointless and I'm using a LOT of wheels and that costs a LOT of money

Did you look at the hyper links I posted? Why are you even using polishing wheels?!!! I dout you could have done much damage, but you seriously need to look at the links Ive posted and do searches outside of this forum. What you will notice with real cylinder head specialists is the lack of acutal polish on the port walls. What you do see is a very meticulous flowing sanding ation, which is really more finish sanding if anything. You really don't need to go any finer than 80 or 100 grit wet dry coated abrasive shop roll.

If you can post more pics before you go any further... I have a feeling, you're getting too over zealous, and jumping steps...

For guys out there who know what heads are about... I am not trying to scare him, and I do realize he may not even have taken much material out, but I just can't sit here and let him butcher his head.

Willing to help man... But you need to step up if your serious... That means spend money on real equipment, do real research, listen a lot, listen more, do more research, and for crying out loud, be patient...

Here's another good link for supplies...

I have placed the linnks in order of tools you (the noob head destroyer) should be concidering before going much further. They are in order of importance.

http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=die+grinders
You'll need an ok air grinder, these work fine But this is not even the tip of the proverbial berg...

http://www.ruffstuff.com/pages/PK2.html
Some abrasives will help, but DO NOT rely solely on them to do your job.. I can explain later.

http://www.aaabrasives.com/shoponline.asp?point=moreinfo&catid=133&id=466&pRange=0&iCurrentPage=1
http://www.aaabrasives.com/shoponline.asp?point=moreinfo&catid=133&id=467&pRange=0&iCurrentPage=1
This will come in very handy for finishing if you know how to use the stuff... Can also screw shit up bad if you don't

Here's some manditory reading...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...103-3037927-6422263?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...103-3037927-6422263?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
*don't scoff at it because it's V8 stuff... this is where everyone learns to do it at some point.* Also this will give you new respect for the art you are attempting to emulate.

This is not an easy thing to undertake, and I can respect anyone willing to try, but don't be foolish... You have to examine the photos closely.... you'll begine to notice the differenence between great and crap is not as readily apparent to the untrained eye.

Ok, so for immidiate grat... heres some pics of what I know is good all around work, maybe not PRO stock drag or prototype racing type stuff, but damn good for you and me...
http://www.dprracing.com/prod&serv/Heads/Subaruheads/subaruheads.htm

And of course heres some shots of an old project in motion enclosed....

Do more searches, you'll see what I mean.

 

[groundPork]

leme try again...

 

[groundPork]

crap , I suck at getting picks up... hang tight.