Clevite 77 engine bearings [Merged 3-8]

[1gcrazy]

clevite isnt using trimetals any more, so apparently they arent as good as before. i vote acl because they are still using the tri metal.

wow did not know that, whats the difference in performance between trimetal and non trimetal?

 

[dnhieu]

i did a little bit of reseach on this because i am in the process of rebuilding my motor currently. okay from what i understand clevite used to be the shit untill they switched from a trimetal to a all aluminum bearing. the all aluminum bearing was seeing failure in some peoples cars. i did a little more research and found that acl/engine pro are still using the trimetal and is what i went with. from what i understand engine pro and acl are the same company with diffrent names....

also dont use a turned crank. it will snap as soon as you put any power to the ground. this is because our cranks are nitrated from the factory. the nitrate is there to make the crank stronger. once you start shaving away the journals your taking away the nitrate. slowboy sells remanufactored cranks that have been turned .010. the nitrate penatrates .020 into the crank so using a crank thats been turned .010 is apparently okay. if it was me i would just find a good crank and have the journals polished and put some stock size bearings on it.

sorry for the long post.
david

 

[project_tsi]

Correct guys, Clevite used to be the #1 bearing manufacturer for DSM's until lately. They have changed over to a aluminum bearing rather than the tri metals, and unfortunatley, they found themselves in the trash can at my place. I had originally built my engine with aluminum clevites, but decided against it and put in some ACL's instead. There is however, a little guy that's been whispering in my head and he tells me the Trimetals from Clevite are comming back, but its going to be a little while.

The Aluminum bearings are good to about ~400 hp and then they will start to flake apart, a Clevite rep told me this. If you are doing a budget, non performance or only slight performance rebuild, then the AL bearings will be fine for you, but for me, I have a 600+whp safe setup and don't only want to have `400 hp safe bearings in my motor. It just doesn't make sense to me.

As for using a undercut crank. I won't. Mitsubishi states that the 4g63 cranks are "non serviceable" items. Once again leading back to the performance issue, a undercut crank will be fine for lots of people not seeing 300+whp daily. But for me, I'm not chancing anything, and if Mitsu states it's non seriveable, then that's good enough for me.

 

[Slowboy]

ACL vs. Clevite vs. King vs. OEM vs. Calico

which one if price did not matter...

Calico bearings begin life as an ACL bearing.

They get my vote for very high HP applications, however standard Engine PRO and ACL have been proven to work well in all conditions.

Do your research if you decide to go with Calico, there is a little more involved than meets the eye. If you call in, ask for me and I can explain.

As for the "cut crank theorist" on this list, I used a 10/10 in the RWD all last year, and Nate has a 20/20 crank in his. Niether crank failed at over 700 WHP.

As well, there is a 20/20 crank in our car that we are doing all the turbo test on, it has almost 600 dyno pulls, no failure. It is like anything else, the quality of the machine shop doing the work goes a long way.

Mike Huml

 

[qtxdevilz]

any more votes for oem bearings...people have put down 500+ hp on them on the stock shortblock with 150k...that has to say something...a buddy of mine who works at the mitsu local to turbotrix told me that turbotrix uses oem bearings in there high powered evos...does anyone know what bearings shep/bushur/magnus use...after reading above i will know not to use clevites anymore...

is the oem bearing tri metal also...what is it made of if it is not tri metal...

 

[qtxdevilz]

Calico bearings begin life as an ACL bearing.

They get my vote for very high HP applications, however standard Engine PRO and ACL have been proven to work well in all conditions.

Do your research if you decide to go with Calico, there is a little more involved than meets the eye. If you call in, ask for me and I can explain.

As for the "cut crank theorist" on this list, I used a 10/10 in the RWD all last year, and Nate has a 20/20 crank in his. Niether crank failed at over 700 WHP.

As well, there is a 20/20 crank in our car that we are doing all the turbo test on, it has almost 600 dyno pulls, no failure. It is like anything else, the quality of the machine shop doing the work goes a long way.

Mike Huml

what exactly makes the calico bearings so advanced...i am still a little stuck choosing between the oem bearings or the calico bearings...i can get both for around the same price of about $120...the only reason i am leaning towards oem is because i know turbotrix and magnus uses them in there builds...and the fact that there are alot of people putting down 450+ hp on the stock block day after day...

 

[dnhieu]

what exactly makes the calico bearings so advanced...i am still a little stuck choosing between the oem bearings or the calico bearings...i can get both for around the same price of about $120...the only reason i am leaning towards oem is because i know turbotrix and magnus uses them in there builds...and the fact that there are alot of people putting down 450+ hp on the stock block day after day...

are you talking 120 for the rods and the mains? or you talking 120 for the rods and another 120 for the mains? if your talking 120 for the rods and another 120 for the mains your nuts because sb just said that the engine pro/acl are strong enough for high hp 4g63 motors and you can get them for about $100 bucks shipped to your door.

also slowboy: are you re nitrating the cranks after taking off .020 off the main and rod journals? if your not whats the secret to not snaping cranks after the 300hp mark? obviously that kind of torque you guys are putting down would easily snap a crank that hasnt been turned.....

 

[dsm-onster]

As for the "cut crank theorist" on this list, I used a 10/10 in the RWD all last year, and Nate has a 20/20 crank in his. Niether crank failed at over 700 WHP.

As well, there is a 20/20 crank in our car that we are doing all the turbo test on, it has almost 600 dyno pulls, no failure. It is like anything else, the quality of the machine shop doing the work goes a long way.

Mike Huml

This should a new thread, but Mike, how are you not breaking turned cranks at this power level, but others with FAR less are? I am not questioning you skill. Just trying to understand it? You guys have been on the cutting edge for a long time (and I've given you alot of business). Yet, I'm sure project_tsi has a good verifyable reason not to use cut cranks. And I have seen and have heard of bad results, too. I don't think a crank could even be broke even when a rod breaks... so if a crank breaks, what are the chances that it is actually a consumer problem and not an issue that a cut crank has.

Just wondering. I am seriously considereing a stroker kit from you. This is why I ask.

 

[TSIfreek]

Well if the calico bearings and the oems are the same $$ I would go with the calico bearings because of the extra coating on the bearing. The OEMs I thought were all aluminum? Anyway you are paying out the ass for OEMs cause they have the mitsubishi part # is all in my oppinion. JAM aslo sells coated ACL bearings.

 

[qtxdevilz]

are you talking 120 for the rods and the mains? or you talking 120 for the rods and another 120 for the mains? if your talking 120 for the rods and another 120 for the mains your nuts because sb just said that the engine pro/acl are strong enough for high hp 4g63 motors and you can get them for about $100 bucks shipped to your door.

also slowboy: are you re nitrating the cranks after taking off .020 off the main and rod journals? if your not whats the secret to not snaping cranks after the 300hp mark? obviously that kind of torque you guys are putting down would easily snap a crank that hasnt been turned.....

120 for the oem rods and mains...plus you get the reliability of an oem bearing...but like the first post stated...money is not the problem here...

 

[qtxdevilz]

Well if the calico bearings and the oems are the same $$ I would go with the calico bearings because of the extra coating on the bearing. The OEMs I thought were all aluminum? Anyway you are paying out the ass for OEMs cause they have the mitsubishi part # is all in my oppinion. JAM aslo sells coated ACL bearings.

are you sure the oem bearings are aluminum...people have put down 500+ hp on the stock block...

 

[dsm-onster]

If 6-bolt bearings are the same as 7-bolt bearings. . .

"Rizz" has put to the wheels 585hp and 450ft/lbs torque on a stock 6-bolt bottem end.

Quote

 

[TSIfreek]

are you sure the oem bearings are aluminum...people have put down 500+ hp on the stock block...

When I did my motor they were aluminum.

 

[Slowboy]

what exactly makes the calico bearings so advanced...i am still a little stuck choosing between the oem bearings or the calico bearings...i can get both for around the same price of about $120...the only reason i am leaning towards oem is because i know turbotrix and magnus uses them in there builds...and the fact that there are alot of people putting down 450+ hp on the stock block day after day...

OEM is a geat bearing of course, always a decent choice, however there are better bearings on the market for big HP.

What makes Calico special is http://www.calicocoatings.com/index.phtml?coatings

Pay really close attention to:

"Engines overheating from cooling system failure to the point of oil “breakdown” have avoided total destruction of expensive components (block, rods, and crankshafts) due to the secondary lubrication provided by the .0002 to .0004 inch layer of CT-1 dry film lubricant"

IMO, Calico is not a bearing you should be buying and installing at home without having the proper tools (dial bore gauge) to measure bearing clearance.

http://www.plastigauge.co.uk/ Plastigauge has its place, but this should not be one of them when using a coated bearing.

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

are you talking 120 for the rods and the mains? or you talking 120 for the rods and another 120 for the mains? if your talking 120 for the rods and another 120 for the mains your nuts because sb just said that the engine pro/acl are strong enough for high hp 4g63 motors and you can get them for about $100 bucks shipped to your door.

also slowboy: are you re nitrating the cranks after taking off .020 off the main and rod journals? if your not whats the secret to not snaping cranks after the 300hp mark? obviously that kind of torque you guys are putting down would easily snap a crank that hasnt been turned.....

No, we are not re-nitrating the crankshafts.

Secret? No secret. If you are snapping a crank at even 500 WHP, something was wrong with the quality of the crank or the person who reconditioned it. I can explain more in depth, but agree it should be another thread.

Should I mention that just now a brand new Mitsubishi crank right out of the box had .0025" run out on the thrust? YIKES! Hence why very important to have the right equipment to measure with!

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

This should a new thread, but Mike, how are you not breaking turned cranks at this power level, but others with FAR less are? I am not questioning you skill. Just trying to understand it? You guys have been on the cutting edge for a long time (and I've given you alot of business). Yet, I'm sure project_tsi has a good verifyable reason not to use cut cranks. And I have seen and have heard of bad results, too. I don't think a crank could even be broke even when a rod breaks... so if a crank breaks, what are the chances that it is actually a consumer problem and not an issue that a cut crank has.

Just wondering. I am seriously considereing a stroker kit from you. This is why I ask.

There may be a lot of reasons, but first and foremost would be who cut the crank?

What equipment were they using?

What is the QC department like?

Who are you trusting to build your motor and has no idea what plastigauge even is, let alone a dial bore gauge. (PS, a good dial bore gauge cost over 2k)

Heck, now I am gonna have a crank cut 30/30 and run it in the RWD this year.... going for over 1000 WHP on methanol, if it breaks you can all tell me "told you so" but I will chalk it up to science

I have NEVER broke a crank in a motor.

Like you said, we can start a new thread as well, we went way off track

Mike Huml

 

[dsm-onster]

There may be a lot of reasons, but first and foremost would be who cut the crank?

What equipment were they using?

What is the QC department like?

Who are you trusting to build your motor and has no idea what plastigauge even is, let alone a dial bore gauge. (PS, a good dial bore gauge cost over 2k)

Heck, now I am gonna have a crank cut 30/30 and run it in the RWD this year.... going for over 1000 WHP on methanol, if it breaks you can all tell me "told you so" but I will chalk it up to science

I have NEVER broke a crank in a motor.

Like you said, we can start a new thread as well, we went way off track

Mike Huml

HA! Thanks, Mike. Keep deliverin' 'cause I'm'll keep buyin'!

 

[sho_tyme_psi]

Whoa Whoa Whoa. I'm glad I seen this. I was actually getting up to call to order my clevite bearings. What I need to know is what bearings are being recomended. Not trying to hi-jack the thread, but what vendors/guys with high hp cars recommend and run. I plan to run mid-high 40's psi and rev upwards of 10,000 rpm. Any help greatly appreciated.

I apoligize qtxdevilz, not trying to hijack your thread.

 

[steel_3d]

What exactly is wrong with using plastigage on a coated bearing?

 

[qtxdevilz]

What exactly is wrong with using plastigage on a coated bearing?

after slowboys statement about the calico coated bearings and with him stating that the coated bearings require special attention in installion i will be going with oem bearings...the oem bearings have been proven...i mean there are just too many people putting down 450+ hp on the stock block...some people do this with 150k miles on there motor without failure...magnus and turbotrix also use the oems on there motors...so oem here i come...

 

[huafist]

What exactly is wrong with using plastigage on a coated bearing?

Scraping off the plastigauge will scrape off the coating.

 

[qtxdevilz]

Scraping off the plastigauge will scrape off the coating.

if the coating comes off that easily do you think it will actually help with total oil lost/overheating in a motor like slowboy quoted...i really would like to know if coated bearings really help at all...sounds like a good idea...but i do not think a coated bearing will survive longer than a non coated bearing if the motor ran out of oil/overheated...

 

[sho_tyme_psi]

I went with the calico coated from slowboyracing, just ordered them the other night. Hopefully I can figure out the special procedure

 

[diambo4life]

<-- Runs Clevite 77's.

Personally, I would never run a turned crank in my car.

 

[modifyer]

Scraping off the plastigauge will scrape off the coating.

No need to scrape it off a little WD40 on a lint free cloth will remove it easily.