Please help with Cyclone

[iridium0]

Wow its great to see some dyno numbers on the cyclone. Now that I realize it opens based on RPM only, that makes it simpler. I think I am going to leave it on. As I understand it, even if I can't get it working right away, I can unhook the vaccuum line which will leave the secondaries open and they I have just about the same thing as the US manifold. I have a few worries about wiring differences between the two, I have noticed differences, and once I get the old motor out I will have to make sure I can get around that. For low end TQ I will do what I have to. With an properly operating cyclone, the torque would probably be fairly flat. Which is a lot more important that a steep peak at redline IMHO!

I'm going to have to do some more looking, I think I might have a extra FPR solenoid between my two engines.

How much is your chip and how does it work? Is it a ECU upgrade or stand alone?

 

[Bostedquest]

Both my Cyclones are Extrude-honed, which I think should cancel out any of the arguments against it based on the 2-3 cfm of flow loss.



How's 30-40 ft/lbs more TQ up to 4500 rpm?

plus look at the peak TRQ RPM numbers... MUCH quicker with the cyclone, 3300 compared to 4200...

 

[dsmchips]

stupid question but would this be a stock 1g FPR solenoid? US?

Yep, just a plain old FPR solenoid that most of us have removed years ago.
I can't talk about pricing on here, please visit my website. I can control it off ANY of the stock factory solenoid plugs. I think the Purge, FPR, and BCS all have the same plug configuration, but I prefer the Purge, because it makes the vacuum routing easier on GVR-4's. You can also use a US EGR solenoid, which is actually the same ECU output the JDM Cyclones were controlled on, but you will need to remove the vent cap and install it on the other end, easy fix.
I don't think I mentioned it before, but the stock EVO RS ECU doesn't open the secondaries until 4700 rpm, which I consider a little too high, especially since our cars are usually modded more than the RS.
Lancerman over in Tampa says that most of his customers are using Cyclones, because it GREATLY helps spool up bigger turbos. I just did a 2G with the Cyclone on the FPR line for him. Just something else to think about.

 

[JDMFirstGen]

Both my Cyclones are Extrude-honed, which I think should cancel out any of the arguments against it based on the 2-3 cfm of flow loss.



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What exactly is extrude honing by the way, is is just a fancy way of saying ported or is it different in some way?

 

[coltboostin]

What exactly is extrude honing by the way, is is just a fancy way of saying ported or is it different in some way?

Different, and better. Basically, it involves running media of varying grit back and forth through the thing being extrude honed while on a machine much like a flow bench. This in turn produces a perfectly smooth surface, especially in places a grinder can not reach. I also think it is only done at one place, Extrude Hone inc. in Pennsylvania?

 

[gixrman]

http://search.hp.netscape.com/hp/bo...Test=1&remove_url=http://www.extrudehone.com/

 

[lbartik]

Different, and better. Basically, it involves running media of varying grit back and forth through the thing being extrude honed while on a machine much like a flow bench. This in turn produces a perfectly smooth surface, especially in places a grinder can not reach. I also think it is only done at one place, Extrude Hone inc. in Pennsylvania?

I agree with all of this post except the generalization that extrude honing is better than porting. I will say that it is probably more comprehensive and better than an uneducated or inexperienced porting job for one reason in particular, extrude honing isn't exactly targeted material removal. The flow of the media (which is relatively thick and pastelike I believe) will bias material removal to some areas but for the most part, I think extrude honing is classic hogging out style porting. We still have a long way to go before everybody realizes that hogging out ports (I won't mention 1g vs. 2g head debate) and surface finishes much finer than 80 grit are perhaps a little outdated.

I would like to know more about extrude honing myself. It is proprietary as mentioned before and so data is limited.


LB

 

[blue1]

I posted this up to another DSMer to help him out and he was pleased with the results!!

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/321988. Have a look at one of the photos with my set up. the two solenoids 1 is a normally open type and 1 is a normally closed type mine are powered from the stand alone to get psi/ rpm setting, where the EGT wire on yours does that to approx 3000rpm and a hobbs switch does the boost. when you work out what your egt wire does (gives 12v or earths ) it will be easy from there! the soleniod with the tee connection on the top is normally open (it needs power to shut it and the one that the cannister feeds into needs power to open it.
So if you get power from your EGT wire (12v) connect the two positive terminals to that!! and then connect the earth wire thru the hobb switch (sole' terminals one side and then from the other side term' on the hobbs switch connect to a good earth (on the motor). OR IF THE EGT EARTHS DO THE WIRING OPPOSITE TO WHAT I SAID,and RUN A POWER WIRE THRU THE HOBBS SWITCH TO THE 2 POS (+) TERMS' AND THE TWO EARTHS GO TO THE EGT WIRE!!
Do the vacuum plumbing exactly the way i have the is a oneway valve in that cannister for a reason!!!!!!!!
I got these soleniods off a volvo so they will not look like yours so dont panic! but do the same job (and i'm going to hide the setup under the battery.
Hope this helps keep me posted you will love the cyclone effect, i had mine connected straight to manifold at the start and thought that was good then i read the post on DSM talk and come up with this, i couldn't believe the difference its GOOD.
Mine actuates at 4200rpm and 12psi , eng temp 180f, Dont worry about the picture with the TMIC it now has a large FMIC
Good luck!!
Paul
Ps the picture is better than my crap drawing!!

 

[coltboostin]

I agree with all of this post except the generalization that extrude honing is better than porting. I will say that it is probably more comprehensive and better than an uneducated or inexperienced porting job for one reason in particular, extrude honing isn't exactly targeted material removal. The flow of the media (which is relatively thick and pastelike I believe) will bias material removal to some areas but for the most part, I think extrude honing is classic hogging out style porting. We still have a long way to go before everybody realizes that hogging out ports (I won't mention 1g vs. 2g head debate) and surface finishes much finer than 80 grit are perhaps a little outdated.

I would like to know more about extrude honing myself. It is proprietary as mentioned before and so data is limited.


LB

Hone vs. Port is a discussion for a different thread, but I think they are best used in conjunction. Port first, hone later=perfecto. Also, the Extrude hone process uses several different grits of media, instead of only one. It works the same as sanding-start coarse, finish fine. The extrude hoan process can no be matched for over all smoothness- and added flow capability though.

 

[dsmchips]

Do the vacuum plumbing exactly the way i have the is a oneway valve in that cannister for a reason!!!!!!!!
I got these soleniods off a volvo so they will not look like yours so dont panic!

Nope, you don't need to do it like that. As I said above, ONE plain old FPR or EGR solenoid will do the job. ONE solenoid can do BOTH jobs: pass the vacuum signal to the Cyclone diaphragm at low rpm's, AND backvent the vacuum from the diaphragm at high rpm's to open the secondaries. MUCH simpler!
Look at my hookup diagram above again, and you'll see.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Guarenty

:laugh:

 

[Talon4ever]

So everyone says I had the cyclone manifold hooked up wrong. I don't see how. With the manifold off of the car I looked at the butterfly valves. With no vacuum or anything the valves are open. So as they sit they are open. When I suck on the actuator it closes the valves because I am creating a vacuum. So at idle there is vacuum which would mean the valves are closed, right. As soon as you lose vacuum the valves open because as soon as I stopped sucking on the actuator they opened because they lost vacuum. So when you hit boost the valves open all the way. People were saying the valves weren't opening all the way but this was not the case. Once they lose vacuum the valves open. I think 18 psi would open them. I can see where people say WHEN they open is also important. But I thought that is what the little white canister was for. Doesn't it act as a delay so that way when you hit a certain amount of pressure they will open. What else do you need to run them? They valves are either open or they are not. When they open is something else. But as far as saying that I had the cyclone hooked up wrong is different. Someone explain.

 

[ken inn]

But I thought that is what the little white canister was for. Doesn't it act as a delay so that way when you hit a certain amount of pressure they will open.

wrong again.
the cannister is either part of the system, or not. the solenoid controls whether it is, or isnt. when the solenoid switches(at 4100 rpm), ambient air goes to the actuator, and the butterflies open, exposing all 8 runners. when rpm goes below 4100, the solenoid closes, the cannister becomes operational, and the butterflies close, only 4 runners are in operation. the cannister is there as a vacuum source AND a one way valve. otherwise, when vacuum was less than about 5", the butterflies would open. in your case, the wrong information is worse than no information at all.

 

[Talon4ever]

All this information would have been great if people would have shared before I used the cyclone. I researched for the longest before I decided to stick with the cyclone. But before people would always say don't use the cyclone cuz they suck or the only way they work is with the jdm ecu. Now that I have more incite I think I might put it back on because I loved the low end torque and the faster spool up. At least everyone can learn from my mistake. I just wish people wouldn't flame me for trying , which most people are afraid to do.

 

[allgripnoslip]

reading this thread has definetly turned me on to the cyclone intake manifold

 

[goofynick6]

Just goes to show you how much it sucks when 100's of people read one wrong thing, then spread all that misinformation around until everyone says the same wrong thing to each other.

I don't tend to believe half of what I read on dsmtuners or anywhere on the net unless I see actual proof or the person has real and intelligent experience.

Nick

 

[ken inn]

All this information would have been great if people would have shared before I used the cyclone. I researched for the longest before I decided to stick with the cyclone. But before people would always say don't use the cyclone cuz they suck or the only way they work is with the jdm ecu. Now that I have more incite I think I might put it back on because I loved the low end torque and the faster spool up. At least everyone can learn from my mistake. I just wish people wouldn't flame me for trying , which most people are afraid to do.

one of the reasons i quit posting about the cyclone, was because of all the bullshit i got back. lots of it from people who never even had it. one was a shop, they had installed it, they did it correctly(they didnt), and since we are a shop and you are not, you dont know, etc. so i just quit. i would see all kinds of moronic statements; and i wasnt going to waste my time trying to correct them. i got mine running right, jeff o's chip got it running better. i like it. i even got kingsborne to make a special ign wire set, which fits perfect. if it didnt work, the japanese would never have installed it. it is a lot cheaper to use the 1 peice intake.

 

[ken inn]

With what you're saying being true, then is there a way to repair the diaphragm? Or should I just get another one? I dont wanna buy another manifold cause it would be hard to get rid of.

dunno about repairing the diaphragm. find someone with ties to japan and have them get a new one. or, you will have to get really creative to make it work.

 

[iridium0]

I just dropped in my JDM engine into the 92 Talon. I have run into a problem, which I suppose I expected. The AC does not quite clear the bottom of the cyclone. It is close, but not quite. I used the AC bracket off the donor engine, since the JDM engine did not have AC on it.

From what I understand a bit of grinding will fix that. Does anyone have any pictures or can give me an idea of how much is needed? The problem is that my AC is charged and I am going to have to do this with the engine in the car. I also wondered if spacers (ie washers) could be used to hold the AC further back so it would clear.

I don't want to use the US intake, and I would like to keep the AC, it gets hot in the summer!

 

[ken inn]

the a/c compressor is different on the galant vs the t/e/l. this is what i had to do on the galant. there are 3 raised bosses that the coil mounts to. one of the bosses interferes with the a/c line. i had to grind it off. then, it clears the a/c line, BUT, if you are using the surge tank bracket, the jdm one WILL NOT CLEAR the a/c compressor, more important, it will cut the hot side to the a/c clutch. i had to grind the hell out of the side of the bracket, too.
you will be way ahead to replace the 2 studs that come thru the middle intake piece, with bolts. you CANNOT remove the intake from the car if the studs are there, the middle piece will hit the a/c line. if you use bolts, you can easily remove the intake, which i take apart on the motor to remove. if you got the coil bracket for the cyclone, you can drill another hole up top, and use 2 of the 3 mounting points for the coil. kingsborne will sell you a wire set that will fit perfectly. now, here is the tricky part. if you are using the factory coil bracket, you have to also remove part of it where the charge port is. you will have to mount the coil, and kinda eyeball it. otherwise, you will never get the charge hoses on the a/c charge port.
in order to take pictures, i would have to remove my intake. not much chance of that happening.

 

[iridium0]

Thanks for the reply Ken!

I modded the bracket and did some grinding on the manifold. It is close to fitting now. However I don't want to grind anymore as I am worried about going right through. Looking at things I am not sure it is possible for it to be ground enough away to fit. Someone else posted that they did some grinding on the AC compressor, but since mine is charged that is not going to happen.

Anyway I'm looking at it, and I think about 3/8" is all that is left to close the gap. I think if I just put a few washers between the AC compressor and the mounting bracket I will be in good shape. If I am lucky I can let out the tensioner enough to get the belt to fit. If not I will have to find a slightly longer belt.

Anyway I'm going to give that a go and see what happens. Once I get the AC to fit, putting the rest of the car together shouldn't take long.

 

[gixrman]

Just wondering were the gaskets for this intake are available, mainly the one that goes were the two pieces of the manifold connect. Was there a cyclone offered on the US VR-4?

 

[curtisimo]

Im getting rid of my ac and other unneccasary stuff in my engine bay when i pull my car out of storage. If i get a cyclone intake is there anything else that will be in the way?

 

[ken inn]

Just wondering were the gaskets for this intake are available, mainly the one that goes were the two pieces of the manifold connect. Was there a cyclone offered on the US VR-4?

the cyclone did not come on a usa car. no egr.

for gaskets, www.jnztuning.com, and he had brought in 10 sets, which are going fast. i now hylomar them, and reuse them. but, you gotta start with a good set.

 

[941ghonda3at3r]

Ok I have just had my engine in my 94 n/t eclipse swapped for a JDM engine. The shop that did the swap somehow got the cyclone to go on without the check engine light coming on. I have not drove it yet (next week when I pick it up) but it sounded better than when I first got the car. My question is everything I have read has been with turbo and maybe a few things on the n/t, Does anyone know where I can get full specs before I dyno so I will know if it is hooked up correctly (for n/t not turbo)? Right now I have the JDM engine with an injen intake and pacesetter headers. Any info will help and I have read every post there is on the cyclone and haven't seen alot for the n/t. Will my car pass emmissions with cyclone hooked up if it is done correctly?