Please help with Cyclone

[ken inn]

And this is with the runners hooked up and the white canister connecte.

Pros:
Definitely more low end torque and power
Faster spool up

Cons:
Significantly less Top-end power

WRONG. you OBVIOUSLY had the cannister INCORRECT. you probably had it vacuum-cannister-actuator. you only had HALF of the intake working. the short runners were held closed. try running and breathing thru a 1/2" tube.

Check out www.dsmchips.com they have a chip that makes the cyclone manifold usable.

EXCELLENT ADVICE. i have jeff o's first chip for this. he broke into the jdm ecu, and the butterflies are pure rpm activated. at precisely 4100 rpm, the butterflies open. it is flawless.

Can you post a link that shows they are the same because everyone always said that they don't flow as much on the top end and I personally felt the difference.

everyone is correct. the usa stock intake outflows the cyclone by 2 cfm. BUTT(pun intended) if you can feel that, you are in the wrong line of work.

Cyclone uses butterfly plate that closes off the short runners for low boost and closes off the long runners then opens the short for "high end"

WRONG. the butterflies only move 90 deg. default(no vacuum) AND hi speed operation is ALL the runners are open. at 4100 rpm, the actuator changes from vacuum to atmosphere, and the butterflies open.

Plus I have the little white canister which is supposed to actuate them at a certain psi.

wrong again. the cannister is a combo one way valve and vacuum resevoir. it takes about 6 in of vacuum to close the butterflies. the cannister holds the butterflies closed when vacuum goes down, and even into boost. a solenoid controls whether the ACTUATOR is in vacuum mode(butterflies closed), or open to atmosphere(butterflies open). if you leave the cannister attached to the actuator-like you obviously did-the butterflies NEVER open.

Is there any reason get a cyclone mani over a good sheet metal one?

yup. if you want better low end, driveablilty, better fuel economy, more vacuum, and way better cold start/warmup performance. HOWEVER, if all you want is wot performance, screw anything else, DONT GET THE CYCLONE.

Nothing against the manifold, per se. But it would seem there haven't been twenty of them set up to run properly on this continent. Guess who they first come and ask why not, and second, then argue about it with?

all the posts i see from you about the cyclone is negative. i would NEVER ask you about the cyclone. this is the forerunner of variable valve timing, and is a great addition to my car. i got all the top end i want. i LIKE the increase in low end, better all around driveablility, and better fuel economy. there a cars today still using this technology. it has been around a long time, and i am surprised there is so much ignorance about it.

 

[goofynick6]

Awesome post! Someone with actual experience! THanks for the information; so it is only rpm activated. Hmm, I need to get my hands on one of these..haha.

Nick

 

[Bostedquest]

I'm not asking how to make it work, I'm asking what effects it will have in term of flow since it WONT be working as it is designed to.

and again, what you are asking in IN THE THREAD.

if you are not going to hook it up, your wasting your time. put on the USDM intake and ...

 

[Defiant]

Now, do that twenty times a day, and see what it's like to moderate.

O well. We do what we can.

 

[aves911]

Has anyone ever dynoed with a cyclone intake on? It just seems like in all these threads people make vague statements like "more low end torque". It would be interesting to see some actual data on this.

 

[blackvr4]

Everyone will be pleased to know that with DFI direct fuel injection systems they using this technoligy to aid swirl.

 

[ken inn]

Has anyone ever dynoed with a cyclone intake on? It just seems like in all these threads people make vague statements like "more low end torque". It would be interesting to see some actual data on this.

yup. but you will have to go to the galant board to see it. the cyclone came on all the jdm galants. also, the rs had a slightly bigger intake, which would probably outflow the us stock one up top.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

So, is there a way to get the cyclone to work WITHOUT the white canister? And second, is the butterfly actuator diaphram supposed to leak? I cant find anybody to answer these questions or somebody to sell me a white canister. I dont even know the basic construction of the canister to try and make my own.

 

[ken inn]

So, is there a way to get the cyclone to work WITHOUT the white canister? And second, is the butterfly actuator diaphram supposed to leak? I cant find anybody to answer these questions or somebody to sell me a white canister. I dont even know the basic construction of the canister to try and make my own.

there are ways to make it work WITHOUT the cannister. one person used a servo from a radio control model to actuate the butterflies. another used a wastegate diaphragm. a vacuum cannister from another car can work, too. the cannister is available, if you search. i just bought one for 10 bucks.
if you use a vacuum cannister, the actuator diaphagm CANNOT leak, or the butterflies will open while still under vacuum. the cannister is a combo one way valve and vacuum resevoir. it keeps the butterflies closed, even under boost. the jdm ecu holds the butterflies closed till 4100 rpm.
refer to the other posts to find out more info about the cyclone.

 

[blue1]

Originally Posted by blue1
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/321988. Have a look at one of the photos with my set up. the two solenoids 1 is a normally open type and 1 is a normally closed type mine are powered from the stand alone to get psi/ rpm setting, where the EGT wire on yours does that to approx 3000rpm and a hobbs switch does the boost. when you work out what your egt wire does (gives 12v or earths ) it will be easy from there! the soleniod with the tee connection on the top is normally open (it needs power to shut it and the one that the cannister feeds into needs power to open it.
So if you get power from your EGT wire (12v) connect the two positive terminals to that!! and then connect the earth wire thru the hobb switch (sole' terminals one side and then from the other side term' on the hobbs switch connect to a good earth (on the motor). OR IF THE EGT EARTHS DO THE WIRING OPPOSITE TO WHAT I SAID RUN A POWER WIRE THRU THE HOBBS SWITCH TO THE 2 POS (+) TERMS' AND THE TWO EARTHS GO TO THE EGT WIRE!!
Do the vacuum plumbing exactly the way i have the is a oneway valve in that cannister for a reason!!!!!!!!
I got these soleniods off a volvo so they will not look like yours so dont panic! but do the same job (and i'm going to hide the setup under the battery.
Hope this helps keep me posted you will love the cyclone effect, i had mine connected straight to manifold at the start and thought that was good then i read the post on DSM talk and come up with this, i couldn't believe the difference its GOOD.
Mine actuates at 4200rpm and 12psi , eng temp 180f, Dont worry about the picture with the TMIC it now has a large FMIC
Good luck!!
Paul
Ps the picture is better than my crap drawing!!

 

[Batty200]

I actually came up with a VERY simple way to use the Cyclone intake. I mounted a stock actuator from a turbo with the rod bent to the butterflys. Abnything less than 10psi or so and the runners are closed, 10psi or more and they open up. Pretty nice little setup.

Later

 

[Xenocide]

Blue1's post should cover just about everything; I got mine working with his help and I love it. My car is a daily driver and I love the extra torque and mileage I get with it (My best so far is about 29 mpg with stock fuel system and a lot of highway driving.) If you don't have the vacuum cannister you can buy one from Jegs.com (see my post earlier in this topic) or pull one off another car in the junkyard.

 

[ken inn]

my setup was similar, hobbs switch, but no dsm link. this works WAAAY better:

http://www.dsmchips.com/cyclone.html

gets rid of one solenoid, a lot of vacuum tubing, and is way more precise. i have the first chip he made in the car. you do need a vacuum cannister to use this system, tho.

 

[goofynick6]

I'm thinking just an rpm activated switch to a solenoid would be fine. Like an MSD switch or whatever people have mentioned before.

Nick

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

there are ways to make it work WITHOUT the cannister. one person used a servo from a radio control model to actuate the butterflies. another used a wastegate diaphragm. a vacuum cannister from another car can work, too. the cannister is available, if you search. i just bought one for 10 bucks.
if you use a vacuum cannister, the actuator diaphagm CANNOT leak, or the butterflies will open while still under vacuum. the cannister is a combo one way valve and vacuum resevoir. it keeps the butterflies closed, even under boost. the jdm ecu holds the butterflies closed till 4100 rpm.
refer to the other posts to find out more info about the cyclone.

With what you're saying being true, then is there a way to repair the diaphragm? Or should I just get another one? I dont wanna buy another manifold cause it would be hard to get rid of.

 

[waiting2bl33d]

i just bought a cyclone for my car full engine and so just by ordering the dsm chip they should work right? and would it be better to just hook them up always open or get the chip i assume the chip so i can get my low end tourqe i'll give the dsm chip guy a call

 

[1_bar_goes_far]

I have a cyclone on my laser right now. I like it a lot. But it took A LOT OF WORK to put it on. If you want to put one on, be prepaired to relocate your coils, transitor pack, and grind at your mani and air conditioner pump. I made my chip (with some help from Jeff O.) activate the butterflies at 4000 and you can tell a difference. If I am just bairly accelerating and get to 4000, i will start to accel faster for a bit. And I absolutly love the low end now. I can pull from 600rpm in 2nd no problem and hardly ever down shift unless i actualy have to stop. I dont see any difference in gas milege though. But thats mostly do to warm up time and having to only drive 3 miles to and from college. But I can tell you right now, if you just put it on and dont have the controler working, you will hate it. And if you dont have the white canister, I found that the little black ball vacume canisters off of old cars work great. I dont remember what the one i got was off of, but it already had the check valves in it and a braket that bolted to the holes from the cruse control stuff. But the real reason I put mine on was just to have a conversational piece. I looks real nice .

 

[JDMFirstGen]

Ken Inn had the greatest post of all.
He was the only one with ACTUAL knowledge on the subject. When I got my JDM motor, I sold the manifold because I didn't want to deal with making it work and I didn't know enough about it. Now I am leaning towards getting one and making it function. Thanks KEN for all the info .

 

[ken inn]

I like it a lot. But it took A LOT OF WORK to put it on. If you want to put one on, be prepaired to relocate your coils, transitor pack, and grind at your mani and air conditioner pump.

this is why you need to get ALL of the parts necessary with the cyclone(transistor mount bracket, coil/bracket, blue/white cannister). i have the transistor mounted in the stock location, the bracket is different, and you can make the usa one work. i have the coil in the stock location, rotated about 20 deg, and the lowest boss ground off(on a galant, this is what interferes with the a/c hose), using 2 of the 3 mounting points. i had to drill a new hole in the coil bracket, but it fits/looks stock. this now clears the a/c hose/compressor. i removed the 2 long studs in the middle piece, and replaced them with long bolts. when installing/removing the cyclone, it is way easier for me to disassemble it on the car. the 2 long studs will prevent this, the bolts make it easy. i also called kingsborne, and using the dimensions from the wire set that came with the engine, had them make a wire set for this car, and i got the first one on my car. fits perfect. i also had to grind away part of the coil bracket to access the charge port on the a/c compressor. it is a very clean install.

i quit posting about the cyclone because of so much negative remarks, a lot of them by people who had never even seen one, some who had tried to install it, but never got it working correctly-and you just cant tell them they are wrong, they wont admit it. i experimented with several ways to get it to work, and finally settled on the dual solenoids, but after jeff broke the code, i got his first chip, and it was even better. some of these posters need to go back and take some lessons in basic automotive mechanics.

 

[JDMFirstGen]

Also, wouldn't you be able to hand port the manifold to see some upper end gains?

 

[coltboostin]

Holy crap! I just put the stock intake manifold back on and wow you can feel the difference because I never had the cycolne hook up correctly!!!

Way to go champ

 

[iridium0]

Hey its great to finally read a good thread on the cylcone, instead of the usual, "use a US one".

I purchased a 92 AWD talon timing belt victim, and I am swapping in a JDM motor and tranny. I have been doing research on the cyclone because I would much rather keep it. I have a friend who has done a few swaps and he has removed it every time because he figures its too hard to figure out.

I have to get hunting for the pressure switch and solenoids still. One concern is making a bunch of modifications to things. I had thought of swapping the intake manifolds, and trying to figure it out later, but then I probably just won't do it. I need to do it upfront.

Sooo, my question is, with the JDM motor, does the AC compressor bolt up, or are some mods needed? The coils and such are mounted differently than the US motor. So does anyone know what sorts of changes need to be made? The JDM motor didn't have AC on it, the pulley still has paint on it. So I am curious how much of a battle it will be.

I also have a n/t laser, and I had the idea to put the cyclone on it, and just leave the short runner closed. Of course it would take more modifications. Has anyone ever tried that on a n/t? I read some threads about it, but they were just cyclone bashing. Its unlikely I will bother trying it, since I will be busy with my turbo car, but I am curious anyway. I would expect better low end power and drivability, with a top end loss.

 

[coltboostin]

Hey its great to finally read a good thread on the cylcone, instead of the usual, "use a US one".

I purchased a 92 AWD talon timing belt victim, and I am swapping in a JDM motor and tranny. I have been doing research on the cyclone because I would much rather keep it. I have a friend who has done a few swaps and he has removed it every time because he figures its too hard to figure out.

I have to get hunting for the pressure switch and solenoids still. One concern is making a bunch of modifications to things. I had thought of swapping the intake manifolds, and trying to figure it out later, but then I probably just won't do it. I need to do it upfront.

Sooo, my question is, with the JDM motor, does the AC compressor bolt up, or are some mods needed? The coils and such are mounted differently than the US motor. So does anyone know what sorts of changes need to be made? The JDM motor didn't have AC on it, the pulley still has paint on it. So I am curious how much of a battle it will be.

I also have a n/t laser, and I had the idea to put the cyclone on it, and just leave the short runner closed. Of course it would take more modifications. Has anyone ever tried that on a n/t? I read some threads about it, but they were just cyclone bashing. Its unlikely I will bother trying it, since I will be busy with my turbo car, but I am curious anyway. I would expect better low end power and drivability, with a top end loss.

In a true cyclone set up, the short runner actuator is open based purely on RPM’s, not boost. When people do it in the US, the hook it up to work at a certain PSI. If you had it hooked up to open biased on a certain RPM as it is “stock” then it would work well with an NA car also.

 

[dsmchips]

Also, wouldn't you be able to hand port the manifold to see some upper end gains?

Both my Cyclones are Extrude-honed, which I think should cancel out any of the arguments against it based on the 2-3 cfm of flow loss.

Has anyone ever dynoed with a cyclone intake on? It just seems like in all these threads people make vague statements like "more low end torque". It would be interesting to see some actual data on this.

How's 30-40 ft/lbs more TQ up to 4500 rpm? This dyno was done by keeping the secondaries closed the whole time for one run, and then open the whole time for another run, so its not really a true representation of an OPERATING Cyclone:
http://www.dsmchips.com/~keydiver/Dyno_Chart1.jpg


This is a little hand drawing I did to show how to *properly* connect a Cyclone so it operates as intended. It uses the commonly available FPR solenoid. You just energize the solenoid based on rpm with any one of those "pills" people talk about, or a shift light, or my chip.
http://www.dsmchips.com/cyclone_hookup.pcx
This is the original JDM hookup:
http://www.dsmchips.com/vacuum.jpg

 

[gixrman]

It uses the commonly available FPR solenoid.

stupid question but would this be a stock 1g FPR solenoid? US?