Please help with Cyclone

[Stapl3]

The cyclone manifold sacrifices top end for better low end torque BTW.

It's like the blind leading the blind here.

The cyclone and 1g manifolds flow exactly the same the when the butterfly is opened on the cyclone. 3-400 rpm quicker spool have been reported a few times from the cyclone manifold.

I wouldn't recommend running out and buying one, but they are not rice junk like they have been labled for the past couple years.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

I'm actually laughing out loud right now. While someone is hogging out a 2g head to the size of a 1g I'm switching to a 2g head for my 1g and even adding material to that. The irony is killing me. I've got a stack of 1g's here, we could have just traded heads. :laugh:

 

[Catbox_95]

I'm actually laughing out loud right now. While someone is hogging out a 2g head to the size of a 1g I'm switching to a 2g head for my 1g and even adding material to that. The irony is killing me. I've got a stack of 1g's here, we could have just traded heads. :laugh:

Yes, it is humorous! We are all in search of the same thing. If there was only one way to achieve that there would be no need for this forum.

 

[na90dsm]

ok some clarification on 1g tb. the 1g turbo tb is 60mm while the 1g n/t is 60mm. but tapers down from 64mm at its neck. the 1g tb elbow at the tb is bigger then the 2g but it tappers down to meat the ic piping. the 2g tb is smaller but the elbow is more open at the entrance. all you have to do 2 a 2g is port it at the tb and your good


now the cycloe intake flows good but it has to be runa certain way. it is a dual runner manifold. basically there are 2 runners per intake runner. a large on and a small. the large is open all the time but when the selinoid open up on the jdm cars it opens the runner allowing more air into the head. the seliniod is controlles by the ecu i beleive. without the seliniod you need to keep the runner open all the time for that manifold to flow more then the 1g manifold. here are some flow specs on heads. read the info at the bottom about the cyclone intake.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53893

 

[lowridin2g]

ok some clarification on 1g tb. the 1g turbo tb is 56mm while the 1g n/t is 60mm. the 1g tb elbow at the tb is bigger then the 1g but it tappers down to meat the ic piping. the 2g tb is 52mm but the elbow is more open at the entrnce.

OMFG I FRIGGIN GIVE UP WITH YOU NEWBS. know your role before you open your mouth. ahhh i hate stupid people who think they know everything for sure

oh and i hate this thread

 

[lowridin2g]

dude, i have 3 turbo 1g throttle bodies, one onmy car, one is junk and one is non compatabile with the 2g, its like a 90 tb. they are all 60 mm. n/t tb is also 60 mm on a 1g. 2g turbo tb elbow is 52 mm. 1g tb elbow is 60 mm where it mates up to the intake mani but tapers down a shitload, it is junk and useless. port the opening a tad on a 2g elbow and youve got a match. goddamn

 

[na90dsm]

^^^ i love you man

i plan on running the 60mm n/t tb also. i ported the bump out of mine and need to finish tweaking it

 

[Catbox_95]

ok some clarification on 1g tb. the 1g turbo tb is 56mm while the 1g n/t is 60mm.

Wrong. I am sitting here right now with a set of calipers. The 1g turbo TB is 60mm.

And hey, yes I'm a bit of a newbie to the DSM, but I'm on here so I can learn. No one's perfect. Through all this the only thing I think I was really wrong about was a 1g elbow being better. I did not know that it taperred down at the opening.

Since that post, like 1 hour ago, I have opened up my 2g elbow to 60mm at the TB side, which IS what the 1g turbo TB is! Sheesh!

 

[silverbulletAWD]

Yes, it is humorous! We are all in search of the same thing. If there was only one way to achieve that there would be no need for this forum.

Very true. I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks they need sewer pipes for ports but I do wish you best of luck with your project.

I think lowridin2g needs a hug

Andy

 

[silverbulletAWD]

Wow this thread is really moving. I was just going to walk out to the shop to measure a 1g TB because I was sure it was 60mm. Thanks for saving me the trip!

It seems like both elbows have their flaws so why not just get a decent aftermarket and be done w/ it ya know? I guess hogging out a 2g would do about the same though.

 

[Catbox_95]

Very true. I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks they need sewer pipes for ports but I do wish you best of luck with your project.

I think lowridin2g needs a hug

Andy

I agree with you about the sewer pipe issue. I don't feel I need them, but I have heard great things about the 1g intake and there is simply no way to just bolt it onto a 2g head with that huge difference in size. My main goal was to use a 1g intake, not have sewer pipe sized ports.

Oh yeah, I've also heard great things about the 2g head, so I wanted to use it with the 1g intake. I just love all this "I heard, he heard, she said, ..." blah blah blah! But I'll listen to your advice seeing as though you run 11.8s and I don't!

 

[Catbox_95]

now does your 1g tb have a neck on it or is it a lat surrface. just want clarification as i can find many info sited that say the stock turbo which has a flat face is 56mm

It does not have a neck on it, just a flat surface, and it measures 60mm across.

 

[na90dsm]

k im gonan go delete some posts of mine. got messurements messed up. they are both 60mm at the plate but 64mm on the opening of the n/t tb.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152593&highlight=n/t+size


i got a pic of my n/t if need be. i knew there was a difference but couldnt remember the messurements. im gonan go clean up my mistakes

 

[Catbox_95]

Yes, I too have "heard" that the N/T tb is 64mm.

 

[silverbulletAWD]

I actually bought a N/T TB a couple years ago just to find out because no one really knew for sure. Turns out the bore just tapers out to like 63.5mm at the outside.

 

[98spyderboost]

It's like the blind leading the blind here.

The cyclone and 1g manifolds flow exactly the same the when the butterfly is opened on the cyclone. 3-400 rpm quicker spool have been reported a few times from the cyclone manifold.

I wouldn't recommend running out and buying one, but they are not rice junk like they have been labled for the past couple years.

That was really what i'm saying. I do all my own work, wether I know how too or not
Are you saying I there are better, bang for buck options? As far as manifolds go that is. I had a Mopar Intake with direct port nitrous injection on my 383 DAK. I just hate the one I have now! And I dont want to go with a less OEM look like a pvc or sheet metal.

 

[DSMJim]

Yes, you would have to gasket match it. But like I said, you have to cut 3/8" off of each port. This isn't something you are going to be able to do with the head bolted on the car. You'll have to remove the head.

Here's a picture of what I'm working on right now with my car.

In doing so you will end up with a higher flowing head than you had before but only because of the port work the rest of the way down the port.

What you did which is a critical error right there (huge error by the way..) was lowering the port height. Your creating an angle the air has to travel towards the top of the valve. The whole point of porting a head is to create a straight path towards the valve. Making the port larger only slows down velocity and has the air hitting the valves on an angle. Your head will flow better with all that work but ONLY because of the work the rest of the way down.

If you were to only open the ports up at the entrance so they were the same as a 1G port you would lose velocity and create an angle in the port at the valves which would do nothing but cause a loss in HP.

Bigger ports do NOT mean more power more air or better performance. Here is a tidbit of info thats inthe works from a MAJOR dsm shop. They are experimenting with a 2G head utilizing the smaller ports but raising the ports (not lowering them as you did) to create and even straighter path towards the valves. The anticipated results even with smaller port sized overall is a higher flowing head. These are head porting basics. Search around the net for port angle and lowering vs. raising ports on a head.

 

[Stapl3]

And hey, yes I'm a bit of a newbie to the DSM, but I'm on here so I can learn. No one's perfect.

If you learn anything, be sure to learn how to pick through all the incorrect posts made. Master this and you'll do just fine. It's hard, I know, especially on here.

 

[na90dsm]

yea i messed up a bit in sizes.


but dsmjim has a point. i saw on www.ffwdconnection.com that his head, and im speaking about darren, his death head which is his top of the line head uses a 2g head platform and raises the ports on the head. he also did some other relocation of the injector ports i htink it says. he has a 2g head that out flows all the1g heads he has. but hes using 2mm opversized valves. i thought it a interesting thing but never looked into it.


now in comparrison to what hes doing how would he have raised them vs lowered them. could he have done that and matched it to the 1g mani and been ok. i find this interesting now

 

[DSMJim]

And for the guys arguing about the throttle body elbows, stop being stupid and STFU..

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1G Elbow vs 2g Elbow

Thanks for comin out tho...

 

[Stapl3]

na90dsm-

Aside of just not doing it, I can only think of using a phenolic spacer, but shaped to make a smooth transition.

*shrugs* That's all I got..

 

[98spyderboost]

So I'll just say it. If you were building a street tuner with a OEM touring car theme. What would you build using the previosly stated heads and intake NOT BLOCK>DONT GO THERE!! This is why i was originally asking. Jeez.. VALIUM PPL

 

[silverbulletAWD]

I agree with you about the sewer pipe issue. I don't feel I need them, but I have heard great things about the 1g intake and there is simply no way to just bolt it onto a 2g head with that huge difference in size. My main goal was to use a 1g intake, not have sewer pipe sized ports.

Oh yeah, I've also heard great things about the 2g head, so I wanted to use it with the 1g intake. I just love all this "I heard, he heard, she said, ..." blah blah blah! But I'll listen to your advice seeing as though you run 11.8s and I don't!

I'm sure you'll do just fine with your 1g sized head and I see your logic now. The 1g is what 99% of these guys run. I'm kind of diving in deep here this winter and doing something that as far as I know of has never been done. Around here it seems most think the bigger the better. I've got some designs that have been given thumbs up by some pretty knowledgeable individuals, incuding some engine systems engineers at one of the big three and I can tell you my intake ports are just slightly smaller in sectional area than the 2g's. We'll see what happens, as of right now it all looks good on paper. If works you might be hearing my name because we'll be making enough power to go much faster than 11's to say the least. If it dont work I guess I'll just go back to a 1g head and fall back into line.

 

[Stapl3]

so now jim, he ported everythign out on the bottom, did this lower the port. how wold he go about raising it liek stated on ffwd.

still finding this weird how it was raised when there doesnt apear to be much room at all to do this

You just asked this less than 5 minutes ago.

 

[na90dsm]

yea sorry bout that

just dont understand it fully on how the hell they do that. i know the porting basics of the 1g head and what most guys take out ect, 2g heads i never looked at. i got another head today i need to post about with some little pits in it. speaking of which........