Opinions on my next mod..

[Numba1cuban]

Hey guys whats up? Well i curently own a 95 gst. I have a 6bolt, ported 2g manifold,o2 housing and 14b; intake with a k&n filter, boost controller, all free mods, full 2.5'' exhaust with no cat, ground kit, removed silencer, radiator hose uicp 2g throttle body elbow,and 1g bov. Aside from that everything is stock.(intecooler, injectors, pump,ect.) Last night i tried my car aout with a stock 350z and i took half a car on him. I want to keep my car almost stock but fast and i wanted to know what other mod i could do to make my car a little faster without going too expensive. right now im boosting 15lbs on my 14b.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

 

[dsm-onster]

Hey guys whats up? Well i curently own a 95 gst. I have a 6bolt, ported 2g manifold,o2 housing and 14b; intake with a k&n filter, boost controller, all free mods, full 2.5'' exhaust with no cat, ground kit, removed silencer, radiator hose uicp 2g throttle body elbow,and 1g bov. Aside from that everything is stock.(intecooler, injectors, pump,ect.) Last night i tried my car aout with a stock 350z and i took half a car on him. I want to keep my car almost stock but fast and i wanted to know what other mod i could do to make my car a little faster without going too expensive. right now im boosting 15lbs on my 14b.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

What's too expensive to you?

 

[pnishr]

Well, you've still got some room on that 14b. try 17-18lbs, and a 190lph walbro. that's pretty cheap still. ($100)

or a FP Big28, a MAFT and some 550s, with a 190. that'd be around $1200 (with your old t-25 core)

 

[Numba1cuban]

well by too expensive i mean anything close $1000 but give me some ideas anyways. Do you guys think i can get away with 17-18lbs on a stock ic in miami weather. its usualy in the mid 80's around this time of year.

 

[luvmygst]

Sorry to get off the subject but I like how your car looks.(looks familiar) I would get a logger, fuel pump, afpr and play with the boost.

 

[clipse0001]

Get a logger. Its the first thing you should have gotten.

Anton

 

[Numba1cuban]

yea i was thinking of getting one so i can tell more or less whats going on with my car. but thats more of a tool than a mod. thanks guys keep em coming.

 

[micus]

ok so if i was in your position i would get some 650cc's, safcII, and a good deal on a previously enjoyed fmic from the classifieds, if u have some skills u can easily get that for 1k or under, ohhh 190lph walbro too.

 

[dsm-onster]

well by too expensive i mean anything close $1000 but give me some ideas anyways. Do you guys think i can get away with 17-18lbs on a stock ic in miami weather. its usualy in the mid 80's around this time of year.

SAFC or MAFt (used $100)
550s (from a turbo RX7, used $150)
Walbro 190 fuel pump (new $100)
Supra Sidemount Intercooler (stock IC is for South Florida, used $100)

Total = $450

However, I highly recommend new injectors. New 650s are the same price as new 550s. Don't go bigger than 650s with MAFt or SAFC. $300

That changes your total to 600.

Now you can run your 14b out of breath to 20 psi. But I don't recommend doing it for long. You can sell it on ebay and get an EVO3 16G. The mods i've listed work great with the EVO3 16G. So you can go to that later, when you decide to upgrade turbos.

 

[BaseModelEvo]

I'd steer clear of SAFCs, and similar electronics. They are generic and don't usually don't help much. Get a reflash or some kind of real standalone (DSM Link is a nice inexpensive option). As PNISHR said, you have room on the 14B, not a whole lot, but with the right mods, a good amount of power can be had. Get the DSM Link, A DOWNPIPE, a new pump, and some injectors. Those couple mods, some safe practiced pulls with the boost up a bit and you'll be watching that 350 in your mirror. Next be sourcing a new FMIC and a 16g. Best of luck bro.

 

[DSMark]

I'd steer clear of SAFCs, and similar electronics. They are generic and don't usually don't help much. Get a reflash or some kind of real standalone (DSM Link is a nice inexpensive option). As PNISHR said, you have room on the 14B, not a whole lot, but with the right mods, a good amount of power can be had. Get the DSM Link, A DOWNPIPE, a new pump, and some injectors. Those couple mods, some safe practiced pulls with the boost up a bit and you'll be watching that 350 in your mirror. Next be sourcing a new FMIC and a 16g. Best of luck bro, hit me up if you need help getting the parts, I usually have that stuff in stock.

Honestly, I'd have to disagree because of the fact that his goals and budget aren't really pushing for a standalone; therefore, dsmlink, aem ems, emanage or anything remotely similar is overkill. IMO with the stock 14b, some 550's (or even 510's off an evo3), a walbro 190 ( i'd suggest a 255 since they're practically the same in price and if you decide to go bigger on your setup you'll already have the fuel pump for it) and a fuel pressure regulator, a piggyback like an s-afc would be more than sufficient. That's just my 2 cents though.

 

[BaseModelEvo]

The DSM link is a good mod for now and future. Never modify your car past it's tuning potential. At injectors, he'll need tuning. AFCs generic tuning ability for large RPM increments is simply archeic. A spike, creep or a dead spot and it's good-bye bottom end. I rarely install and never recommened generic electronics. I dyno tune at SRM Performance, we've NEVER netted a decent gain or a dynoed a car with an SFC that was worth a shit. DSM link is cheap now-days. It can be had in 500 dollar range if you wait it out. Easy to use, very good tuning ability, and only a couple hundred more than an AFC. I'm not trying to argue with you, I agree with the other mod suggestions you had, but AFCs simply aren't reliable or worthwhile. I do this for a living. Save the couple bucks and get something SOLID. Plus, you wont outdate it for a LONG time. I appreciate the respectful difference in opinion by the way. This is simply my two cents as well.

 

[BaseModelEvo]

The S-AFC is not a piggy back. It's a signal modifier. EMS, F-Con Pro, E-manage ultimate, etc are Piggy-Backs. AFCs simply modify signals to/from the ECU to change device, sensor input/output. These use broad ranges and don't allow much tunability for RPM specifics. They are generic and also become an instant emissions failure..without considering you'll fail anyway because of the broad RPM tuning.

 

[BoBbOrAzE]

I would simply say you would benefit the most with a new downpipe as your next mod. Then definitely a logger to make sure whats goin on. Then what the others have said.

 

[Primaveria]

The DSM link is a good mod for now and future.

I am going to agree, the S-afc is not worth the money considering what you can get for a few hundred more.

 

[dsm-onster]

The S-AFC is not a piggy back. It's a signal modifier. EMS, F-Con Pro, E-manage ultimate, etc are Piggy-Backs. AFCs simply modify signals to/from the ECU to change device, sensor input/output. These use broad ranges and don't allow much tunability for RPM specifics. They are generic and also become an instant emissions failure..without considering you'll fail anyway because of the broad RPM tuning.

You do this for a living and yet you say EMS is a piggy backWTF . You unplug your ecm and replace it with the EMS. How can the EMS piggyback the ecu if th ecu is not plugged into the harness?

The Emanage simply modifies signals to/from the ECU to change device, sensor input/output.

SAFC tunes fuel in closer incriments in DSMLink which you suggested. I have DSMLink and would never use an SAFC for my setup but SAFC is all that is neccesary for 550cc injectors.

I've never failed an emmisions test with MAFt which has broader tuning incriments than SAFC. Maybe in CA.

To the original poster . . . SAFC piggy backs the stock ecm by modifying the signals that go to and come from the ecm.

 

[dsm-onster]

The DSM link is a good mod for now and future. QUOTE]
I am going to agree, the S-afc is not worth the money considering what you can get for a few hundred more.

SAFC = new $200

DSMLink = $565 ; Socketing service = $50

$200 vs. $615

DSMLink is over THREE times more!

And he still hasn't purchased injectors yet...

 

[dsm-onster]

The DSM link is a good mod for now and future. Never modify your car past it's tuning potential.

At injectors, he'll need tuning. AFCs generic tuning ability for large RPM increments is simply archeic. A spike, creep or a dead spot and it's good-bye bottom end. I rarely install and never recommened generic electronics.

[]SAFCs have benn used for years on cars running 550s and 650s and have never, ever run ito a problem. A spike, creep or a dead spot? This is perposterous! SAFC tunes in tigher incriments than DSMLink.

I dyno tune at SRM Performance, we've NEVER netted a decent gain or a dynoed a car with an SFC that was worth a shit.

[] I've netted significant gains tuning a KA24e with a turbo kit using an SAFC. I have no dyno shop and no profesional experience.

DSM link is cheap now-days. It can be had in 500 dollar range if you wait it out. Easy to use, very good tuning ability, and only a couple hundred more than an AFC.

500 dollars for just a tuning set up will put him over his decided budget.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I agree with the other mod suggestions you had, but AFCs simply aren't reliable or worthwhile.

Just becasuse you do not know how to use an SAFC properly, does not make them inferior. To the original poster... please do a search on SAFC. So many, many guys are runnign great times and 300+ horsepower with safc. For example contact 1slocolt. He can show you how to get a great tune w/ SAFC and put this nonsence to rest!

I do this for a living. Save the couple bucks and get something SOLID. Plus, you wont outdate it for a LONG time. I appreciate the respectful difference in opinion by the way. This is simply my two cents as well.

[]

 

[DSMJim]

I went 12.1 @ 115mph with a SAFC on pump gas. If you can't make power with an afc your really doing something wrong. They are so easy to setup and use it's just not even funny.

EMS is not piggy pack no matter how you slice it. Emanage is for sure thats the ultimate piggy back. I sort of agree on the AFC tho, it's not really piggy back because it's only modifying one string the ECU see's. If you wanna split hairs it's piggy back technically but not really considering what it does.

 

[femmeDSM]

Looks like you've got this handled Matt.
Good Job

 

[1SloColt]

The DSM link is a good mod for now and future. Never modify your car past it's tuning potential. At injectors, he'll need tuning. AFCs generic tuning ability for large RPM increments is simply archeic. A spike, creep or a dead spot and it's good-bye bottom end. I rarely install and never recommened generic electronics. I dyno tune at SRM Performance, we've NEVER netted a decent gain or a dynoed a car with an SFC that was worth a shit. DSM link is cheap now-days. It can be had in 500 dollar range if you wait it out. Easy to use, very good tuning ability, and only a couple hundred more than an AFC. I'm not trying to argue with you, I agree with the other mod suggestions you had, but AFCs simply aren't reliable or worthwhile. I do this for a living. Save the couple bucks and get something SOLID. Plus, you wont outdate it for a LONG time. I appreciate the respectful difference in opinion by the way. This is simply my two cents as well.
www.garagedonline.com

Buschur was running 9s on piggybacks before I even got into DSMs. Saying you have never netted decent gains with SAFC means that you haven't a clue how to set a car up to make power. Its so wierd how I just got finished tuning a car that made 475whp on 28psi with an SAFC, eprom chip with MAFT that we zeroed out, and it would have made more if the intercooler was worth a damn, this is on a completely bone stock 90 shortblock. What do you mean about "a spike, creep, or a dead spot"? Are you referring to boost control?

Dsmlink is a great tuning device for a lot of dsmers but the gentleman who started the thread wants to spend less than $1000 to accomplish some decent numbers. Dsmlink is gonna take out at least half of that, so his best bet is to go with an SAFC with a datalogger. Greddy eDamage, oopps, I mean emanage is a decent system, though I would rather run dsmlink. EMS is on a completely different playing field than any of the above mentioned piggybacks (dsmlink, edamage, safc), due to the fact that you can seriously do anything with it as long as you know how to scale it. Traction control through tuning, pressure sensors in manifolds to help degree cams, nitrous vs. load for dual rail injections setups, almost anything you can conjure up the EMS will do.

Here's what you do:
evo8 565s, these SHOULD be less than rx7 injectors: $150 or under
any fuel pump over stock, a walboro 190 or 255 if you can get it cheap: $75 or under
NT fuel pressure regulator: $10
Datalogger + cable: $50
SAFC: $200

The prices may not be exact but I know I could find the products for close to those prices. This will cost you around $500 or so. You'll have close to enough fuel to support around 350whp with the products I listed above. I would seriously suggest going with a FMIC of some type if you are considering these mods, that should allow you to run the car around 20psi without much problem assuming the car is tuned well.

 

[DSMark]

2g MAF, which no one mentioned: $80

No one mentioned a 2g MAF because he owns a second gen eclipse. Sorry SloColt didn't mean to point it out, I just thought i was kind of funny and figured if I didn't someone else would've, but I totally agree with all the other parts you mentioned.

 

[1SloColt]

No one mentioned a 2g MAF because he owns a second gen eclipse. Sorry SloColt didn't mean to point it out, I just thought i was kind of funny and figured if I didn't someone else would've, but I totally agree with all the other parts you mentioned.

Hahahaha, thanks for pointing out my dumbassness.

 

[BaseModelEvo]

I didn't say: SAFCs CANNOT MAKE POWER. Instead of picking apart what I said, simply because you've used something, try sticking to his point, and give him advice, as I have. What I stated was, I have not seen decent gains on an OEM equipped cars, such as his, with simply an AFC of any sort. In California they are an INSTANT failure point for emissions, so we seldom use them. [] That car on a 4 wheel drive dyno is probably running richer than shit throughout the power band, you can't monitor knock (you probably haven't even check to see if there is any!). The car, despite making applauded power, is probably running very poorly and couldn't FAKE a California Emissions test.

My recommendations for his were based upon an ability to tune, and to do it properly. Datalogging is one of the most important assest/tools you can have. To know what your car is doing, what's working, and what is not. DSM link is a good mod for a 95 eclipse, being OBDI still (or it should be) he wont fail emissions with a clean set up. He's also ready to run over 700whp. AFCs used to work cause it's all we had. If he has the money to get the DSM link, he should. It's practical and VERY efficient. [] Our Evo9 reflash and drop in filter net 318whp on 06 MIVEC Evos. They pass emissions. They sell of the lot of San Rafael Mitsubishi with no problems. That's REAL. That's tuning. Fuel controllers are simplistic and outdated, but yes, they can work. Unfortunately in Cali, we have STRINGENT SMOG LAWS.

The SAFC cannot do anything about boost creep, and because of it's wider RPM tuning bands, usually ends up spiking at some point. You wouldn't know, because you opted for a cheap-ass AFC instead of a datalogging DSMlink. The "dead spot" i was referring to (sorry I was so vauge) was in the AFCs tuning. It did seem out of place.

This is why tuners generally stay out of forums. [] As i recall I thanked the gentleman before me for his opinion and stated mine. [] Argue til you're blue, I say get the DSM Link and you'll be ready for anything. Several other suggestions, including the ones lay down by my nay-sayers were good as well with injector swaps, mafs, and downpipes. Do what your pocket book allows. Follow the advice you choose. I still recommend the DSM Link, it's an INCREDIBLE tool that wont outdate and the datalogging is INVALUABLE. Especially over an AFC. Best of luck, my apologies for the arguing on your thread. Welcome to life in the forums, .

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

My vote is for an upgraded fuel pump (100 bucks give or take) and an AFPR (150+ depending on kit options) that would allow you to run much more boost and get the most out of that 14b (im going a similar route, except at the end of mine lies an FP 3065)